Hollywood is Hollywood

Discussion in 'Transformers Movie Discussion' started by ILoveDinobot, Jun 21, 2009.

  1. Digilaut

    Digilaut Well-Known Member

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    Totally agree with the OP, although we should all HOPE someday Hollywood will wisen up and those kind of movies will get better, because action and plot can co-exist.

    But I doubt it will ever change, the people pulling the strings see numbers and the numbers are favorable to them. As long as big tons of money are made, why change course?
     
  2. Superion33

    Superion33 Banned

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    I sure as heck wouldn't change my business model. Why would I when people think "Hollywood is Hollywood"? I'd keep pushing the boundary and keep giving crappier and cheaper product to see how much I could maximize my profit thinking that these guys will accept anything. There really is no incentive for Hollywood to change.

    In fact, if this movie does well, then I would strongly suggest to the producers to keep doing more of the same. They'd be banking and why would they change that up. Even more explosions. Even more of the same writing and plot and characterization. Even more of the toilet humor. Even more stereotyped robots. They have the geriatric stereotype and the urban hick type stereotype and the gangsta stereotype. I think they should have a nerd stereotype - fully decked with black rimmed glasses with tape on them and a pocket protector. Maybe even a cowboy stereotype or a Chinese stereotype. I say the producers should load up on all those things.
     
  3. Digilaut

    Digilaut Well-Known Member

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    I agree! They should also add a metrosexual stereotype! (G1 Tracks) Or the crazy inventor stereotype! (G1 Wheeljack) Or the cocky type! (G1 Mirage) Or the one with the insulting intelligence of a caveman! (Guess who..you guessed it! It's G1 Grimlock!)

    By gosh, you are brilliant! :)  :)  :) 
     
  4. Superion33

    Superion33 Banned

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    Geewunner!!!! Alarm! Alarm! Geewunner spotted! He is armed and dangerous with arsenals of "raped childhoods" and "fanboy wank"!
     
  5. Digilaut

    Digilaut Well-Known Member

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    Err...where, exactly?

    :crazy: 

    And here I thought we were finally agreeing on something...bonding even! You know, for agreeing that indeed, they should add in more of these character traits from past TF series, the ones we love.

    THIS IS CONFUSING!
     
  6. Superion33

    Superion33 Banned

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    Lol. Nah, only pointing how people will use G1 as both a positive and a negative in defending the movie. The movie defenders (lets call them Defenders of the Faith for want of a better phrase) will say this is Bayformers or Bayverse that is completely separate from any previous incarnation. Thus people asking for more similarities to G1 should be disabused of that notion.

    Then, when something is ******ed in the movie - they will use similarities to G1 to say how its ok for the movie to be ******ed since G1 was ******ed. So in our argument - if G1 used stereotypes - then its ok for the movie to use stereotypes. Or if G1 had a ******ed plot, then that justifies a ******ed plot for the movie.

    I personally don't want stereotypes. I think thats really lame characterization and also only strengthens negative stereotypes about people. It pigeon holes a person. It was passable with Screech and Erkel but I think we have hopefully come a little bit further as a society than that...
     
  7. Digilaut

    Digilaut Well-Known Member

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    I'm not 'people'..I'm just one person here. Really don't think all people saying it's-not-G1-Get-Over-It are always the same people saying G1 nods are nice. Or maybe some of these people do say something like that, but have a more healthy look on it (as in: you don't need to have one of two extremes..you can get a new fresh take while still give nods..instead of: 'it should all be like G1' or 'It should bever be like G1'.)

    Anyway, this isn't 'The Movie Board vs. Superion33'...so if you don't agree with me saying something, I'd rather you point me to where I personally said something contradictive, instead of putting what I said on the big pile of opinions of people defending Bayformers, mix them up and use other people's opinions to counter what I said (by saying something like 'but you guys said..') :)  Thanks.

    Personally, I am perfectly fine with seeing it as a seperate entry, but since I DO like the older Transformers stuff, nods and reused stuff is good to me.

    You're putting all the people defending Bayformers together in one big group, even though their reasons for defending it are varying. Just like people criticizing Bayformers have different reasons to do so, and nobody likes being called a Geewunner just because they don't like the robots' complicated designs, either. Hey, that's stereotyping, no fair :( !

    Stereotypes will always be there because they don't require a deep one-hour look into the character before you get to understand them, something I don't think you can afford when you have so many different toy robots running around on screen. And even though we humans all like to think we are special..in the end you can all sort us into different groups of stereotypes, even though some people more obvious than others.
    One can hope for less insulting stereotypes..but did you think Jazz in movie 1 was insulting? If you thought it was, then I think you're, on your turn, insulting the people that are actually part of the culture Jazz's stereotype is based on. I don't think they ever portrayed him as being an idiot, in fact he was pretty heroic and caring in two scenes.
    I can't judge the hillbilly twins yet because I have yet to see ROTF. They could turn out fun, or infinte facepalms, I dunno.

    One thing that surprises me about stereotypes (this is more a general observation, and not based on any facts, nor directly at you, mr. Superion), that in alot of cases I have seen, it's the people that are NOT part of the 'bad' stereotype are annoyed or insulted by it, while the people that are being stereotyped are able to see the fun in it and not care about it.

    Again, that's just from what I have gathered from personal experiences and stuff I have read, I could be totally wrong on the overall scale, as well. :) 

    Oh, and how about NOT calling people 'Defenders of the Faith'? It's not smart. It's not catchy. It's not funny. It's not even pissing people off. It's just silly. How silly? About as silly as Marvel using every minute of their spare time reminding fans that they are the 'TRUE BELIEVERS!!!®'. It's a bit sad, honestly. Oh whoops, that's just my personal opinion, by the way.

    edit: made slight edits to make some points more clear.
     
  8. BenPrince

    BenPrince Banned

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    bull! Crap!
     
  9. Ash from Carolina

    Ash from Carolina Junior Smeghead

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    What, I'm just saying that Hollywood isn't always going to give everyone everything they were looking for. Just the nature of the business.
     
  10. Superion33

    Superion33 Banned

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    You're right, sir. You know my mind better than me. What was I thinking? Lol, I should have asked you first what I liked and what I didn't since you know me better than myself. :rolleyes: 
     
  11. Ruthie

    Ruthie Well-Known Member

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    I'm not sure what brought all this about, but here it goes...
    Since I live in the U.S.A, I haven't yet seen the movie. But from what I understand about the plot, it’s pretty straightforward and manages to keep the main protagonists involved while upping the stakes. It may not be stellar, but it doesn't sound as bad as your stating.

    And I don’t understand why people compare TF with Batman and IM. Surely you understand that these are two entirely different themes, with two strikingly dissimilar histories involving two wholly divergent approaches. (LOTR is a very strange comparison, so I'm going to ignore that one.)
    Let's say for the sake of argument that I agree with your premise that TF "deserves to fall into the all-action minimal-story category.” What's wrong with that? There's a time and a place for stuff like this and the movie-going audience picks that time and that place. At the moment, if that audience is going to accept a live-action movie about giant alien robots who can change into vehicles duking it out on earth, they want to see action and a plausible reason for it. You'll just have to give them a few more years to appreciate the franchise the way you do.
    Careful now, you’re close to calling the audience dumb. If what you said was the case then F4:RSS would have done boffo at the box office instead of feebly crawling to earn its money back. People like big summer action flicks, they don't necessarily like them stupid--regardless of any individual's personal opinion of the product.
    Methinks you vastly overestimate the power of “the squeaky wheels”. We got X3 because X2 was so well received. If the type of feedback you are referring to mattered, X3 should not have been as careless, under-conceived and poorly executed as it was. IM was a marginal movie with witty one-liners that was carried by RDJ. TDK? No qualms there, it was very good, but it wasn't the result of audience feedback as much as it was the result of studio and producer feedback. Nolan pretty much knew where he was going with TDK before BB opened.

    The bottom line is the only feedback studios care about is how well a movie performs during its box office run. That's the most objective critique available. Everything else - the trending, the polling, the marketing response, the reviews, the forum posts, even WOM - is smoke and mirrors.
    Hollywood may offer it up but there is no guarantee that the general movie going public will buy it. Be careful what you wish for.
    That scene was fangirl wank pure and simple. It was also the cheesiest part of the movie. It pains me that that it and the Lighting of the Beacons are in the same 3 hour block. John Rhys-Davies saved that moment from the roll-eyes it deserved.
    If Sam’s house blew up while he was walking down the street thinking of Mikaela and then in the next scene we saw him eating at Burger King, that would be an explosion for the sake of it. Explosions due to Sam being hunted by alien robots who are their own weapons systems, not so much.
     
  12. Ash from Carolina

    Ash from Carolina Junior Smeghead

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    But did we get X-Men 4 after the much panned X-Men 3? Instead we got a Wolverine movie since people seem to still like Jackman in the role even after X-Men 3. So I think public perceptions and bitching do have some effect because no one in Hollywood is going to want to bank roll a film if they think the public isn't as charmed with the franchise like they were.
     
  13. Shelfwarmercon

    Shelfwarmercon Well-Known Member

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    :confused: 

    There's no X-Men 4 because X-Men 3 wasn't as well-received, compared to X-Men 2 spawning X-Men 3. Which is what Ruthie said.

    Or am I missing something here?
     
  14. Digilaut

    Digilaut Well-Known Member

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    I think there was no X-Men 4 because they were pretty much done with it..we are still getting 20 X-Men spin offs, that all carry the title ' X-Men Origins', so I wouldn't be so sure of X-Men 3 destroying the movie franchise...
     
  15. Hand Of Omega

    Hand Of Omega Well-Known Member

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    I see the point you're making. I agree, but it doesn't stop me from wanting quality entertainment. If Sam Raimi can meld great story with action, excitement and good plotting whilst still making a mint and helping to sell incongruous ammounts of merchandise, I fail to see why Bay cannot.
     
  16. iceburn9

    iceburn9 Constructicon

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    It all boils down to individual directors' styles. Every human being believes in a particular way of doing things, and if given the chance, will do it their way.

    Bay's style may not sit well with critics, or even movie-goers who seek deeper meaning from movies, but at the end of the day he's still making good profits, so I doubt he sees any reason to change a winning formula.

    Ideally, it would be great if one has a desire to take it on to the next level.
    But sometimes, you find a way of doing things that you enjoy and feel comfortable with, so you kinda go with it regardless of what people may think.
     
  17. Satomiblood

    Satomiblood City Hunter

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    Leon: The Professional, The Bourne Trilogy, T2, and the original Robocop are perfect examples of an action movie balanced out with a very good plot.
     
  18. spiritprime

    spiritprime Dudes, I'm a girl!

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    I agree with you, ILD, a movie is a movie. There is nothing wrong with that. If people want a plot, then they should watch the animated series like G1, Armada, Cybertron or even RiD. I don't give a damn about the plot as long as there is giant robots that have sentient minds and all that kind of stuff.

    Other people may say that the movie is crap, but I'm not letting immature words throw me off the beaten track. I'm seeing that movie and then I'll be the judge of what I see. If I like it, I'll be seeing it again on the 27th with my bf.

    So no more saying 'THE MOVIE SUCKS!' or 'MB did a poor job at this!' Damn you all if you keep that up. I'm sticking with the next generation series or movies, not living in the past with G1. Gimme a break! My dream of seeing a live movie came true and I'm happy. Enough said!
     
  19. megatronkicksas

    megatronkicksas Well-Known Member

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    *stands up* *slow clap*
     
  20. Zherbus

    Zherbus In Shogo Hasui, we trust.

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    I agree with the initial assessment. I just want to see big robots beat each other up.

    It's not fair to compare it to LotR, because the plot has been a classic story for decades. The preparation of those films are more than just busting a CGI driven movie out there, since the demand for that story would yield such high expectations.

    It's not fair to compare it to Dark Knight because of the caliber of actors involved and the richness of the Batman world. It's also common knowledge for the most part. Everyone knows about the characters through everything from the original show and comics to the latest cartoon and everything in between.

    TF is pretty niche, comparitively. Most people who ever got 'into them' grow up and don't look back in the way that we do. I know that I never did until a few years ago. Those of us here know about cool storylines in comics, obscure characters, and old episodes of previous cartoons. The average person maybe remembers Optimus Prime, Megatron, and maybe Starscream from which ever show they primarily grew up with.

    For most people, they want to see action and things blow up. Meanwhile, we've been spoiled by stories from Beast Wars, Animated, the original 86 TF movie, and some very memorable comic stories. Like ILD said, the sooner we accept that, the less overly critical and frustrated we'll be.

    If anything, it's bringing more people into the TF universe. It's keeping new toys shipping to stores, it's bringing people's interest into other TF lines, and it's keeping aftermarket prices up for when we want to sell that MP Prime. So yay.