Here's a fine yakkitywho

Discussion in 'Transformers General Discussion' started by Cobalt Agent, Dec 3, 2006.

  1. Cobalt Agent

    Cobalt Agent My dick kills dinosaurs

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    Could Hotrod open the Matrix because he was the chosen one, or because it was the darkest hour? Would Optimus also be a "chosen one" since he opened the Matrix during the Hate Plague?
     
  2. Switchblade

    Switchblade Just a raggedy man

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    Chosen one. Notice that it glowed like crazy when he touched it after Optimus died. It didn't do that for anybody else.

    And as far as Op opening it after he came back, I've always assumed that the lock was a one-time thing, and it could be opened pretty easily after Rodimus initially unlocked it.
     
  3. TJOmega

    TJOmega The Plastic Addict Content Contributor

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    Are we sure the glowing thing was even because it was Hot Rod or because he was the first one to touch it when Optimus relinquished it?
     
  4. Greyryder

    Greyryder Kitbashed

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    The matrix was desperate, It ws inside Unicron, and being worn as a necklace by Galvatron. At that point, I think it would have let just about anyone open it. Imagine if Wheelie had gotten there, first.
     
  5. fschuler

    fschuler Member TFW2005 Supporter

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    Good question...I always just assumed the glow was for dramatic effect, but, Prime does say something to the effect of "one day an autobot shall rise from our ranks and use the power of the matrix to light our darkest hour". I tend to think that Rodimus was able to open it because he was the chosen one and not necessarily because it was the darkest hour. Things looked pretty dark just before Magnus got dusted, and he wasn't able to open it then.

    EDIT:

    Wheelie say I open Matrix today!
     
  6. Cobalt Agent

    Cobalt Agent My dick kills dinosaurs

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    Thus darkest.
     
  7. ams

    ams Generation All Veteran

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    My take on that has always been that the Matrix:
    a) knew it was time to release its power to stop Unicron
    b) knew that it was now in the possession of the chosen Autobot

    Both of those criteria had to be satisfied (right time, right person) in order for the Matrix to release its power. When Hot Rod caught the Matrix (when Prime dropped it at his death), there was clearly a reaction from it - but because the time wasn't right, the release of the Matrix effluence did not take place, nor did the change to Rodimus Prime.

    Also, the Matrix knew that it had to physically upgrade the chosen one if he was going to have the capacity to stop Galvatron, so the upgrade to Rodimus Prime took place. A point folks seem to miss in that sequence is that Hot Rod had *completely* transformed into Rodimus Prime before he even began the process of opening the Matrix. So it's also worth mentioning that Hot Rod was not turned into Rodimus Prime as a result of opening the Matrix, but the change took place corresponding to the Matrix deciding to allow him to release its power and succeed to leadership of the Autobots.
     
  8. Backscatter

    Backscatter Autobot Brainmaster TFW2005 Supporter

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    What once upon a time Optimus Prime said to Wheelie: "NO!" :lol 

    Anyway, why did the Matrix glow when Hot Rod first grabbed it?

    The Matrix was happy it didn't hit the floor.

    Seriously, I think only a "Prime" can open the Matrix

    On a side note, Takara would like us to believe that Ultra Magnus glowed briefly when he took on the Matrix, hence Shining Yellow Ultra Magnus. The Matrix knew Magnus was a loser, not a Prime, so he couldn't open it.
     
  9. RandomFerret

    RandomFerret Fuzzy Forever

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    Look, Hot Rod's fingers fit in the holes perfectly. He and Thunderwing are the only two in the history of Cybertron to have the exact right shaped fingers.

    I'm serious, I really think that's it.
     
  10. Cobalt Agent

    Cobalt Agent My dick kills dinosaurs

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    Then what about Prime? WHAT A TWIST!
     
  11. EagleEyeJoe

    EagleEyeJoe Well-Known Member

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    I'm not a fan of Hot Rod or Rodimus by any means but I have to go with Chosen One also. All the visual clues are there. When Hot Rod touched it, it gave off it's glow. I'm not sure if the Matrix is omnipotent, but I'm guessing the Wisdom of the Ages knew what had to be done and who was the right person to lead at that time. It's an interesting question to ponder... Had Optimus not died, could HE have opened the Matrix to stop Unicron?
     
  12. Backscatter

    Backscatter Autobot Brainmaster TFW2005 Supporter

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    In a word, yes.
     
  13. Switchblade

    Switchblade Just a raggedy man

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    In a word, no.

    They only said that so people would buy an Ultra Magnus who was colored like pee. :p 
     
  14. Ruination04

    Ruination04 8 Years Old Since 1984!

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    Optimus woulda stopped Unicron......
     
  15. Backscatter

    Backscatter Autobot Brainmaster TFW2005 Supporter

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    and your reason is? Optimus Prime did stop Unicron in the comics.


    If your urine is that color, you might want to check with a doctor. :wink: 
     
  16. Switchblade

    Switchblade Just a raggedy man

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    Cartoon =/= comics.

    And technically, there's nothing that says either way whether Optimus would have been able to open the Matrix in the movie or not. It's pretty much up to whatever you want to believe.

    Personally, I believe that Hot Rod was the only one who would have been capable of opening the Matrix, since he was the Chosen One. Optimus would have tugged on the damn thing, said "Ah, crap", then died.

    At the same time, nothing says he couldn't have popped that puppy open like a beer can and fried Unicron's ass just like Roddy did. But there's no way to really know for sure.
     
  17. Backscatter

    Backscatter Autobot Brainmaster TFW2005 Supporter

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    *Looks at the cover of Transformers the Movie 20th Anniversary DVD* I know for sure. :D  Optimus not only could have saved the day, but I bet he would have invited the Junkions to Earth for the fallen Autobots, rather than building a huge Funeral Ark for the Quintessons to find. However, Hasbro was determined to finish off the Season One Transformers, so the DVD covers merely reflects how things could have been. More than enough proof for me. :D 
     
  18. SMOG

    SMOG Vocab-champion ArgueTitan

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    The way I see it, it's BOTH.

    When Optimus recounts the prophecy thing about the autobot who rises out of the ranks and lights the darkest hour, there are two conditions there... Darkest Hour and Chosen One.

    The only reason that Optimus couldn't be the Chosen One from the prophecy is because he wasn't going to be around, and the Matrix "knew" this. How? Well, it's basically mythology... don't question it! The reason Magnus couldn't open it was because it wasn't the Darkest Hour and he wasn't the Chosen One. Everything was predetermined.

    See, the whole point of a prophecy is that the future is already fixed. Fate cannot be changed, because it's all already been written. It comes true, no matter what you do in the meantime. This is the basic tenet of Greek tragedy... no man, er... autobot... can defy fate!

    So in a way, that doesn't make Rodimus so special, like he was the only Prime who could open the Matrix. It was more due to the fact that he was the only "chosen" candidate who was gonna be around at the darkest hour. It had to be him, and it had to be the Darkest Hour. And that was only going to happen at a specific time, when Unicron is really about to destroy all of Cybertron once and for all.

    Even if they'd handed the Matrix over to HotRod as soon as Optimus kicked it, he probably wouldn't have been able to open it, because the appointed time had not yet arrived. It could have just as easily been him tugging on it like an idiot on the Planet of Junk, before being blasted by Galvatron... and then it would have been an even more significant thing, because then he'd have to return from the dead to light their darkest hour. Hello Messiah allegory! :) 

    The Matrix has a highly developed sense of drama, I think. It really waits until the last damn moment doesn't it? :) 

    Personally I always kind of assumed that any Prime could use the Matrix under the right cosmicly dire circumstances. I never bought the idea that Rodimus was destined to be greater than Optimus... largely because he wasn't. Destroying Unicron was the highlight of his career when you think about it. Wanker.

    Of course, when you get into the comic books, it gets weirder, because the Matrix was apparently an ambiguous energy force, with the ability to create new Transformer life, and which could be transferred by force of will even into the body of a human being. Obviously, a different version of the Matrix.

    zmog
     
  19. Crobot91

    Crobot91 Daddy has lots of TFs...

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    With respect to the cartoon show continuity:

    Optimus and Magnus are only soldiers (Optimus even said that he wasn't worthy).
    Rodimus was the Chosen One IMO.

    The word 'Prime' only means that that the individual is a leader; it doesn't necessarily mean that they can open the matrix IMO. I'm fairly certain that Optimus didn't grow in size when he inherited the matrix from Alpha Trion, much like Magnus didn't. Optimus was upgraded from Orion Pax by Alpha Trion and not by the matrix.

    Rodimus was special (ughhh) and that's why he was the only one able to open the matrix; the writers fucked everything up in Season 3 when they had Scourge and Optimus opening the matrix (but like a previous member mentioned, maybe it got easier to open the matrix after it's initial opening - or Optimus' ultimate sacrifice in the movie made him worthy in the eyes of the Matrix and maybe Scourge/Thundercracker was the Decepticon version of the 'chosen one').

    My two cents worth...:D 

    The comic continuity is another matter 'cause it seems to me that Optimus was the Chosen One there; I mean come on, Furman had Galvatron kicking poor Roddy's butt every frickin' time... and he finally had him killed in that one issue where Rodimus' rotting corpse is hanging in the streets of New York, I think...
     
  20. Katamari Prime

    Katamari Prime Hassan Chop! TFW2005 Supporter

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    Shoulda, Coulda, Woulda...Didn't. Optimus didn't even KNOW about Unicron, only that something serious would happen, THEN the new leader would rise and save the day. Yes, the clues are there for Hot Rod. Yes, Ultra Magnus stank as a leader. The possiblility for Optimus to stop Unicron is there, but that's not how it went. Also,there maybe something to the "Only a Prime" thing. It like a Roerscachian cycle-Matrix makes the Prime, Prime makes the Matrix. And it seems that the comics are there own animal, similar, yet separate.
     

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