Hawkman/hawkgirl question

Discussion in 'Comic Books and Graphic Novels' started by autobotblaster, Jan 21, 2011.

  1. autobotblaster

    autobotblaster Y U NO!?!?!

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    my girlfriends been way into smallville and digs hawkman alot, she asked me about the origin and stuff like that and i mentioned the kay-tar and shay-ir story. Thats were the problem starts, shes really into reading and hasnt read a whole lot of comics but is generaly wanting to start. So im trying to find were that story line comes from and if its available in trade or someting of the sort. So comic buffs of TFW, lend me your brains and tell me what story line the egyptian origin of the hawks come from. thanks in advance!
     
  2. Tekkaman Blade

    Tekkaman Blade Professor of Animation

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    Hawkman and Hawk girl go back to the golden age, They keep getting killed and reincarnated. They've been everything from egyptians to, cowboys, to alien space cops. Good starting points would be JSA or brightest day. Both try to explain the origins. But I can't think of one book that does a good job covering it. You could show her the justice league episodes with them.
     
  3. autobotblaster

    autobotblaster Y U NO!?!?!

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    alright, i figured on the JL episode. she wants to start giving comics a shot and she was interested in the thanagarians so i was hoping there'd be a trade with them or something. does the JSA title show the egyptian origin by any chance?
     
  4. Switchblade

    Switchblade Just a raggedy man

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    The Hawks are a huge mess, honestly. They got really screwed over by the first Crisis back in the 80s, in terms of continuity. For awhile there were three or so different Hawkmen running around. It got so bad that at one point DC basically blacklisted the character until someone could make heads or tails of him. Perhaps unsurprisingly, that person was Geoff Johns.

    For modern Hawk stuff I'd go with JSA or Hawkman's 00s series - maybe Hawkgirl's solo title if your girlfriend is really into tits. For older stuff look for the Hawkworld mini. It's what messed up the Hawks' continuity so bad in the first place, but it's supposed to be really good. The current Brightest Day series is full of Hawks, too, but I'm not a fan of it, partially because they killed off Kendra to bring back Shiera and nobody in the DCU seemed to notice or care. :mad 
     
  5. Tekkaman Blade

    Tekkaman Blade Professor of Animation

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    Sheria is technically Kendra. She has all her memories. It may be moot anyway after the most recent issue of brightest day.
     
  6. Switchblade

    Switchblade Just a raggedy man

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    Shiera is Kendra but Kendra wasn't Shiera, that's the difference. Kendra had her own unique personality because she wasn't a conventional reincarnation - Shiera's spirit possessed Kendra's body after she committed suicide, Kendra just wasn't aware that Shiera was in there. It made her a much more unique and interesting character and I really miss her.
     
  7. Farrk

    Farrk Well-Known Member

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    I agree, Kendra was also WAY more independant. Have they explained WHY they brought Shiera back? Is it just Geoff Johns stuff or is it more interesting than that?
     
  8. lars573

    lars573 Well-Known Member

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    You mean James Robinson. He's the one who created Kendra, and mostly un-f**ked Hawkman.

    Also Hawkworld was INTENDED to be like Superman: Man of steel or Green Lantern: Emerald dawn. A new post crisis origin for Hawkman. However DC decided to make it like Wonder Woman and Captain Marvel, a relaunching from zero. And borking 30 years of continuity.
     
  9. Switchblade

    Switchblade Just a raggedy man

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    As near as I can tell it's just part of DC's current policy of killing off new characters to bring back the ones from the 60s and 70s (or in this case, 40s). See also: Holly Granger and Ryan Choi.

    Really? I knew that Hawkgirl was Robinson, but I thought Hawkman was Johns, seeing as how that came along a couple years later in the book's run, after Robinson left.

    And yeah, Hawkworld would have been a perfect post-Crisis reboot if DC hadn't decided it was taking place in the present, not several years ago before Hawkman joined the Justice League. So much trouble caused just because nobody thought to add in a little caption box saying "This is a flashback!" :banghead: 
     
  10. lars573

    lars573 Well-Known Member

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    Yep. I read an interview with Robinson about his love for GA characters and how he would love to bring them back in more classic forms, one nugget is his line about "First thing I'd do is put a bullet in the head of the new I've-got-a-knife-Dr. Fate-guy." He ended up stabbing him in the back with his own knife. Read the '99 JSA series. Carter Hall Hawkman just appears in the first issue (it's the only one I've got). And the first story line is Robinson un-f**king the charater. And undoing a few of post crisis and post zero-hour reboots/retools of various GA characters. I'm not going to let the hack Johns have credit for something he didn't do.

    Oh they decided to re-launch them from zero. No accident, but it caused decades of continuity headaches. It's funny that in the end the Crisis on infinite earths caused as many continuity problems as it tried to fix.
     
  11. Farrk

    Farrk Well-Known Member

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    That's not what I meant.

    That's what I meant.

    Definition of Geoff Johnsing: "I liked it better when they were the Super-Friends, so now, it's the Super-Friends!"
     
  12. GENOZAUR

    GENOZAUR Banned

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    question

    when it comes to the hawks having been ancient egyption,s cowboys in the wild west era and alien space cops

    why is it that the dcau never fully exlored hawk girls character when it comes to the whole reincarnation bit?

    when it comes to the two part the once and future thing time travel storyline in justice league unlimited i would think that would have been a excellent opportunity to have explored that part of hawk girls character comic book history what with her character having been reincarnated at some point in the past during the time of the wild west era
     
  13. Farrk

    Farrk Well-Known Member

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    There is no Hawkman in the DCAU to do the whole reincarnation story with, and she hooks up with John Stewart anyway, so really it was the relevance.
     
  14. Switchblade

    Switchblade Just a raggedy man

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    Mostly it's because that Hawkgirl is based off of the Silver Age Hawkgirl who was just an alien cop. Tying all of the Hawks together via reincarnation was a much later change; originally the Thanagarian Hawks and the Earth Hawks were completely unrelated aside from design and powers. That's what the cartoon had in mind with Shayera (who is, for my money, far and away the best Hawk character).

    In fairness, though, they did do a couple of episodes in the final season of JLU that brought in Hawkman and the whole reincarnation idea. He came off as a bit of a creepy stalker, though, and Shayera ultimately blew him off for GL.
     
  15. lars573

    lars573 Well-Known Member

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    Actually there is and they sort of did. But they went the way that Khufu and Chay-Ara were Thanagarians who crashed on earth in ancient Egypt. And before they died they put their memories into a Thanagarian memory preservation gizmo. When Egyptologist Carter Hall (changed his name from Joesph Gardner) found the tomb/temple of Khufu and Chay-Ara he touched Khufu's memory gizmo and though he was the reincarnation of Khufu and that Shayera was Chay-Ara's reincarnation. JLU season 2, Shadow of the Hawk and Ancient History.
     
  16. moreprimeland

    moreprimeland Optimus told me to do it! Moderator TFW2005 Supporter

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    I remember this episode..and liked it :D 
    Thanks guys for lots of detail, I watch Smallville and as a previous Daniel Jackson fan, when I saw Michael Shanks as Hawkman on that show, I wondered about the history too. :thumb 
     
  17. Lunar Archivist

    Lunar Archivist Well-Known Member

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    Sorry, but you're completely wrong and James Robinson wasn't responsible for it whatsoever. Like it or not, that hack Geoff Johns was 50% responsible for it, the other 50% is attributable to his co-hack, David Goyer.

    The 1999 series started out with the Kendra Saunders Hawkgirl as a member of the team. The Golden Age Hawkman and Hawkgirl's son, Hector Hall, was introduced as Doctor Fate during the first story arc, which lasted five issues and after which Robinson left the title and was replaced by Johns. Hawkman only reappeared during the aptly-named "Return of Hawkman" story arc that ran from Issues 16 to 25 and started nearly a year after Robinson left the title. Unless Robinson left extensive notes and outlines for the next two years' worth of stories which Goyer and Johns then fleshed out, he can claim exactly zero credit for it.

    That's not quite the way I remember it being explained. From what I recall, Kendra's soul passed on and her body was reanimated by Shiera Sanders' spirit, but something went wrong and Shiera ended up believing that she really was Kendra. She also had zero memories of her previous incarnations, which was a first.

    To answer the OP's question: the issues of the 1999 JSA series - the precursor to the current one - that most directly dealt with Hawkman and Hawkgirl and laid the groundwork for the current incarnations of those character have been collected in the "Return of Hawkman" (Issues 16 to 25) and "Savage Times" (Issues 39 to 45) graphic novels.
     
  18. autobotblaster

    autobotblaster Y U NO!?!?!

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    thanks to everbody that has answered so far and i love the info im getting. @LA: im gona check these books out!
     
  19. Tekkaman Blade

    Tekkaman Blade Professor of Animation

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    That David Goyer hack wrote The Dark Knight. But yeah the best bet for the hawks is the previously mentioned JSA issues. All of which have been TP'd. And lets face it Johns has fixed much of DC at this point. JSA, Hawks, Green Lantern, the Flash(before and after he brought barry back), and Superman.
     
  20. Lunar Archivist

    Lunar Archivist Well-Known Member

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    Sounds good. Be sure to post here and tell me what you think. :) 

    Just for your information, "Return of Hawkman" was storyline that brought back the Golden Age Hawkman and firmly established a link between the planet Thanagar and ancient Egypt. Before that, it had always been tenuous and, if memory serves, could be traced back to a single Secret Origins story where Carter Hall met an ancestor of the Thanagarian Hawkman, Katar Hol or something.

    "Savage Times" was a time travel story with one part that took place in ancient Egypt and had the JSA encountering Teth Adam (a pre-corruption Black Adam) and a pre-reincarnation Prince Khufu and Chay-Ara.

    I guess I didn't make it clear that I was joking about that since I was responding to Lars573's accusation that Johns was a hack. I like Goyer's stuff. Robinson, on the other hand, is on my blacklist after the craptacular Cry for Justice miniseries he wrote.
     

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