Hated DOTM and it's really bugging me. (spoiler nerd wall rant)

Discussion in 'Transformers Movie Discussion' started by whitefox360, Jul 11, 2011.

  1. whitefox360

    whitefox360 New Member

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    I'm not here to argue or change anyone's mind about anything. I'm here to
    vent because everyone I saw it with loved it and I don't want to bring them
    down. I don't expect this to be well written, so I'll apologize in advance. I
    just really do feel heart broken about hating this as much as I did.

    I loved the first one, thought the second one was okay--blaming the writers
    strike for it's most glaring shortcomings-- and just could not find anything to
    like about DOTM (apart from the FX Porn which to be honest featured way
    too few robots IMO). I went with four people and everyone else liked it...This
    whole experience just feels weird to me. I'm not a G1 slave, a film reviewing
    elitist or even a Bay-hater. I don't nit-pick, I normally like summer movies for
    just simply being summer movies and I can't even go that deep into TF
    mythology. But, dammit, man...COME ON!!!

    It's like they didn't even try to have a cohesive narrative. The whole thing
    came off to me like a disjointed variety show that's somehow, at the same
    time, over-produced AND hastily thrown together at the last minute: This
    movie has no theme and there's no soul here to speak of...How the hell do
    you do that with THESE characters, THAT budget and THIS apocalyptic
    scenario?

    I swear to God, guys...I'm not like this. I'm not. I Found a way to enjoy ROC
    for crying out loud. I don't expect life-altering social commentary drama or
    go in expecting cultural barriers to be broken in a film like this and I'm not
    even looking for clever writing...I just wanted a movie about warring factions
    of made-relatable-through-human-interaction transformers--and maybe a
    human moon conspiracy coverup--like I was promised.

    What I got after Sam looked for a job for an hour, was Sam joins the military
    who kicks ass in Chicago while robots fight in the background. That's all fine
    and good for all the other alien invasion movies, but I can't help but feel that
    it's unacceptable for what this franchise is capable of.

    All that gorgeous eye candy and not one reason to acknowledge any
    transformer scene as anything more than filler is tragic. There's just no other
    word for it. Can someone please tell me what the hell is so hard about writing
    for sentient robots that, good guys or bad are, for the most part, exactly like
    us where motives and emotions are concerned?

    Seriously, I always thought the appeal of the first movie, and I guess TF as
    a whole (outside of transforming robots), was that in spite of our obvious
    physical differences, TF's and humans were pretty much striving for the
    same things. Humans IMO are included in the various TF storylines to
    reinforce and exemplify the common bonds we both share as beings in
    general--Humans are not included in the TF universe to steal the spotlight or
    be heroic focal points, they exist to be afraid of decepticons and thusly
    justify the need for an autobot presence, right?

    So WTF happened? How the hell do you lose sight of that two movies in?

    Last I checked, no ones reviewing sam witwicky or tyrese action figures.
    What people have been reviewing, though, is transformer toys. If there's any
    in what I'm writing at all, I'm sure there's knowledge in that last statement
    somewhere.

    I'm not saying Humans can't put up a fight, or have important roles in a TF
    movie, that's asinine. But, for god's sake, if you're going to go through the
    trouble of tacking on yet another reason for sam to be a part of the fight, at
    least give the Stars of the movie a reason to be on screen. I mean, lord,
    there's no story here for the bots at all. NONE!!! Nothing but fight after fight
    after pointless fight, which probably wouldn't even be that bad if something,
    ANYTHING, interesting happened in the movies first 1:30.

    God, I'm bitter. I'm sorry, guys. especially if you enjoyed it. Attack me at
    your leisure, I'd probably do the same to you. I just can't believe that THIS
    passes for a good transformers movie... Thanks for reading those of you that
    did. At least I feel a little better.

    Stupid questions that are mostly rhetorical:

    What's funny or cute about RC sized robot pets?

    Why is Megatron talking to elephants in the wide open country, and
    not in some cave brooding like an evil bad ass? And, If his arm has been
    repaired, why not his head? Is the goofy little scarf REALLY that
    empowering?

    What the hell is crawling on megatron? Where did they come from?

    Where do you think Starscream and Soundwave hang out at?

    Did the prime trailer seem like a waste to you? Looked great, but that's
    about all it did. I thought Optimus was getting more armor or something.

    How the hell does sentinal prime know anything about what earth people find
    to be possible where physics are concerned 10 seconds after being woken up?

    Why do autobots need metal facial hair?

    If megatron was frozen as NBE 1, and earth was more or less undiscovered
    by transformers until a couple years ago, what decepticon had the forsight
    to bully the rich guys dad into being on their side, under whos order and for
    what eventual purpose/ benefit?

    Was Jazz more liked than Ironhide? and who the hell puts their guns down in
    the middle of what's supposed to be a war when they have point-blank head
    shots lined up?

    Who killed more robots? Autobots, Humans, Decepticons?

    At what point did you realize the girl was running around in heels and where
    was she keeping all those outfits she kept changing into?

    Can Shockwave last the full 8 seconds when riding japanese tentacles?

    Did you think the shuttle thing wouldve provided for the perfect opportunity
    to have omega supreme slap the flying ships around?

    Were you surprised the credits hit that quick after the sentinel beatdown?

    And Finally,

    How the hell is what sam did a secret if people know about transformers? I
    understand autobots are not exactly talking to people, but if the boy's
    getting medals for his acts of heroism, people like bill oreilly are talking about
    transformers on TV and inner cities are being messed up all over the world by
    giant robots that aren't trying to keep secrets, how do people not know he's
    connected on some level and what exactly is Simmons' book about if people
    don't believe it's really happening?

    Man, this movie could've been so awesome if they'd of just given one of you
    a chance to proof read it...Damned Hollywood.

    C'mon Reboot!
     
  2. NexusZero

    NexusZero 強度の、勇気の愛、平和。

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    Cool story bro!
     
  3. Overlord Balder

    Overlord Balder Voices Slugslinger!

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    Allow me a proper, wall of nerd-rage response to fit your original Post:

    Look, I really respect other's opinions and all but you're simply, on every single level, wrong.

    I mean, you can dislike the movie and all, but All of your complaints are just plain wrong: No plot for the 'Bots? Did you missed the whole "Sentinel Prime is the traitor"-thing? Sam's job was there, but once in every two scenes the movie would cut back to The Autobots doing something, even one beautiful scene about Sentinel and Optimus discussing who should have the Matrix! How can you say there was no plot for the 'Bots, dude?

    For example: In every scene you could see the mentor-apprentice relationship between Sentinel and Optimus being explored and explored more, on scenes before his betrayal [Sentinel and Optimus discussing about the Matrix], to scenes after his betrayal [Washington, Chicago].

    Couldn't you hear Optimus' rageful voice on Washington? His sad and wounded voice on Chicago as he talks to his former mentor, the man who betrayed him? This movie explored Optimus like no other, literally every single scene added depth to Optimus, showing his human side.

    Wasn't that your main complaint? that they aren't human? How can you say he's not human? This movie shows an Optimus like we've never seen: A confused Optimus, who doesn't know how to react or what to do at Sentinel's betrayal, we see our greatest hero's stoicness falling apart as he sees his mentor's true colors, that's one small thing called humanity.

    There certainly WAS a plot thread for the Autobots you can argue whether was good or not, but certainly WAS.

    Hell, even the Decepticons had their Character Development: Have you bothered to take a look at Megatron? He is not the evil overlord of all badassery anymore, he is a fallen man on his final days, paying for the mistakes of his past, he is tired and slowly dying, he lacks the strength and power he had on the previous movie: He is simply dying.

    He is not that villain we used to say "DAMN YOU!", he is a man on his final days, you can't feel anything but sadness for him [effect of a small thing called "Character Development"], how he gazes as he sees Cybertron back: He finally saw his dream come true. the dream that lead him to such a violent civil war, you can feel genuinely happy for him as he sees Cybertron back.

    That's another trait of humanity [IN. FUCKING. MEGATRON!] seen in the movie, you missed this one as well apparently.

    Sentinel? He's not just a villain twirling his moustache, he is an anti-hero, he wants Cybertron back, but he doesn't want a tyrant [Megatron] commanding it, he wants the genuine good of Cybertron, his intetions are TRULY noble: He wants to stop the war and make Cybertron alive again, but on the pursue for his noble objectives, he corrupted himself, to the point he'll destroy anything on his path and ally himself with the Autobot's worst enemy [but everything with noble intentions in mind, and he won't ever forget those intentions]. He is a fallen hero.

    May I ask you what's that? Humanity.

    This movie is about how greatly the migthy can fall [aforementioned Megatron-Sentine-Optimus tragedy, even Sam became a man lost in life instead of the "typical teenage hero" we knew] and about the price of a war, to both sides [Megatron losing his sanity, the deaths of Ironhide WheeljaQ and the fall of Sentinel, and once again, even Sam is more of a forgotten hero long past his prime in desperate search for meaning for his life e.t.c].

    The first movie is about heroism and sacrifice.
    The second movie is about the weigth of being a hero.
    The third is about corruption and decline.

    They all fit into a nice storyark to me.
     
  4. Megabattimus

    Megabattimus Reborn Comics Fan

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  5. Cujo

    Cujo United States Air Force

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  6. Trikeboy

    Trikeboy Well-Known Member

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    I liked Wheelie and Brains actually. Wheelie has been important in both movies.

    He is licking his wounds after he got his ass handed to him in ROTF. He comes up against the elephants and does the classic who will blink first. Basically he is trying to convince himself that he is still the same old bad ass Megatron.

    If you look closely, they are clones of Scalpel. They are there to repair Megatron but he gets so irritated by them that he keeps killing them. As for where they come from possibly from the ship where the Fallen was on in ROTF medical bay? Where did Scalpel come from?

    Soundwave would be keeping an eye on the humans and liasing with the ones they had influence on. Starscream, most likely in space recruiting new Decepticons.

    Did you miss the trailer opening into a ring with loads of weapons for Optimus? Where do you think the flight unit came from? That was the trailer.

    The same way the Autobots could speak English the second they arrived on earth in the first movie, he was able to plug in to and process the internet.

    Alien race, why not have metal facial hair?

    Starscream? He is such a backstabber he could have used Megatron's fate to his advantage and assume command of the Decepticons. Soundwave? He could have been in on the plan. He is after all a trusted soldier.

    If you are referring to no transformer lamenting over Ironhide, you have to remember that they remembered Jazz after the fighting. Ironhide died at the start of Sentinal's betrayal, everyone was at battle stations trying to figure out what to do. In the first movie, the fighting was done, in DOTM, the fighting was just getting started. Having a scene like that would have killed the pacing of the movie. As for dropping the guns, do you think Ironhide needed the guns? He has two canons built into his arms.

    Autobots I'd say. Decepticons get 1 kill and that is WheeljaQ. Sentinal (an Autobot) kills Ironhide and in expanded fiction, the Twins, Dino kills one of the Dreads, Ironhide gets the other two, Optimus kills so many at the end including Shockwave, Megatron and Sentinal, Bumblebee kills Soundwave and the drones keeping them prisoner, the wreckers kill the Con in the attack ship, the wreckers get their hits in on Shockwave. I'm probably missing more but those are the ones I remember. Humans kill lots of drones.

    She changed clothing? Looks the same to me. Dylan most likely tried to bribe her with clothing and stuff like he did when he "gave" her Soundwave. The girl is a Victoria Secrets model, she will be used to heels, Carly could be used to them too. Also, you complain she was changing outfits. After she jumps off the balcony to Sam and Bumblebee, I missed her stopping at a shoe store to get better shoes.

    Umm...

    Yes, however, having the budget probably didn't allow for it.

    Yes I was.

    We know the military are in the middle east right now, how many mission reports have you read? The soldiers who get awards, do we know exactly what he/she did to get those awards? They might have created a story to explain why he was getting the medal.
     
  7. The Dark Seeker

    The Dark Seeker TFW2005 Supporter

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  8. einis

    einis Want some candy?

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    This


    And, this
     
  9. Trikeboy

    Trikeboy Well-Known Member

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    That is one of my favorite scenes in the movie, Optimus rolls into the hanger, it is destroyed, Mearing berates him for causing that but he is so confused be what he sees in the hanger that he can't respond. His father figure and mentor just killed Ironhide and destroyed the base. Optimus even tries to reason with Sentinal when he activates the space bridge in Washington. He is still unable to accept what Sentinal has done. Once he accepts it, and sees what he has done with the Decepticons, he get's pissed off and declares war on them.

    Optimus Prime had more characterisation in this movie than the other two. Bumblebee was actually pushed back despite his strong presence in the first two movies. This was Optimus' movie. His story was stronger than Sam's story.
     
  10. nathan25

    nathan25 New Member

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    i agree with what the first guy said, there was way too much human elemnt in it ... and before anyone objects...no we dont need it for story realism, i think bumblebee surrendered to easily and i think the story was a little to over the place, the first transformer felt thought out, the last movie felt a little to over the top.. ill be the first to say i enjoyed but cant help feelin that it was over hyped
     
  11. Shizuka

    Shizuka Optimus Prime's scriptor

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    Too much writing to read but I'll say this. I was on IGN an a twat was posting his hate and said crap like there was no "character development" and I pointed out that Sam going to rescue Carly in itself was character development.

    People may not have noticed this but this film wasn't about Sam this time around - it really wasn't. What would have happened if Sam was taken out of the equation? Nothing because this time he didn't discover an alien robot and he didn't have a map in his brain. He was there because he wanted to feel important.

    That being said this film was in actuality more about the robots this time round. There was a clear plot which I'm sure would have been made more clear if footage hadn't been cut (but then people would have complained about filler etc).
     
  12. Shizuka

    Shizuka Optimus Prime's scriptor

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    That was one of my favourite parts too. Did you see his expression? If anything I'd watch this film again solely to see Optimus and Sentinel communicate.
     
  13. madhatprime

    madhatprime Well-Known Member

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    I too would love to see the robots get more screen time, bit compare the screen time in DOTM to the other two movies. They really do have much more screen time. How much money does everyone think should be thrown into a movie? Does anyone realize how much it costs and the time it takes to render out just one second of animation? Just the file for the worm took an hour just to open the model. That is why there are a lot of human bits. it's really a matter of money. CGI of that quality is not cheap, I just hear a lot of complaining about this. CGI like that takes a lot of time and even more money.
     
  14. knoted

    knoted Resistor Transistor

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    and so is the pointless CGi Drillerbots who's about 7 times more complex as the Optimus 3D model and expensive to render.
     
  15. unicronic

    unicronic TFW2005 Supporter

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    There is alot to like and alot to dislike about DOTM.

    Many gaps that many more competent script writers would have caught such as:

    - Ironhide dying but no-one mentioning it
    - Autobots taking journeys that aren't necessary
    - Big plot holes across the three movies that contradict each other (I don't care how you explain them they are plot holes)
    - Poor character development
    - Deaths with little or no gravity to them

    That being said DOTM had some great stuff in it but this is a hate thread.
     
  16. thien425

    thien425 Well-Known Member

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    Actually it isn't a hate thread, and I really can't take you seriously until you explain what plotholes are in this movie.
     
  17. boxerperson

    boxerperson a ringer...

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    The movie had some pronounced editing issues that sometimes got in the way of the story flow.

    However, the actual story itself was good, and the action was good. Bay just needs to listen to his editor more, or perhaps slow down a bit when he's shooting scenes so he isn't missing footage he needs when it comes time to edit.
     
  18. Metallitron

    Metallitron Decepticon of Malice

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    Why cant we have more of a fanbase that has this mature way of thinking, but no...tomorrow we will have newbies joining and starting a Thread like this allll over again...Yawn
     
  19. caitlindevi

    caitlindevi Sculpticon

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    I have a sneaky sucpision that The scenes which were cut and would have featured the twins had a hell of a lot of exposition and story glue which made it all flow nicely as a movie rather than the jump cut thing its ended up. The decision to remove the twins (i'm guessing fairly late on, seeing as they still appear in that early scene) has obviously altered what we see but the people editing may have been so used to the story with them in once they're removed the story still makes sence to them.

    And with the cost of shooting in 3D it just was't cost effective to go back and reshoot those scenes.
     
  20. SentaiRick

    SentaiRick Well-Known Member

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    THANK YOU. This is exactly what I came away with after DOTM, and loved every moment of it. I still fail to understand those that 'didn't get the plot' and probably never will.
     

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