HasTak vs 3P: Where would your money go?

Discussion in 'Transformers 3rd Party Discussion' started by Transbot90210, Sep 2, 2012.

  1. Transbot90210

    Transbot90210 Banned

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    I would say that the biggest allure to 3P figures is the fact that they rank at a collector's lever (aka not kid toys). We adult collectors love em and eat them up knowing that HasTak won't cater to our needs like the 3P groups will.

    Now let us play what if. What if HasTak goes head to head with the 3P groups by releasing high ticket items that are geared to the collectors market? And not only 2 a year but so many that you will be forced to pick sides.

    Let us say that HasTak decided to give us G1 again, and all of it. Combiner gift sets, Citybots from the ever so desired Scoponok to the biggest beast of them all, Fortress Maximus. Now add to this a full throttled release schedule for the Masterpiece series. This will include all of our G1 favorites returning with fully licensed and official Alt modes AND G1 screen accurate Bot modes. Say this series will give us different size classes from Minibots, to your medium sized G1 Autobot cars, Larger "Leader" figures and spot on combiner made out of 4 mediums and one large MPs.

    While all this is going on we will still be getting TF: Prime figures, FOC, Classics and whatever Takara only releases are on the horizon (al la Jet Vehicon, Breakdown and Unicron). You can see how much money would be required just to keep up with this new focus on the collectors market.

    Even as an adult with disposable income, trying to collect them all with be a practice in futility (for most of us). So my question is, where will your money go?

    Will you still eat up all things 3P knowing that HasTak is now in the game giving you everything your high end collector's heart desires?

    Will you prioritize 3P offering over HasTak offering?

    Bottom line, as a high end adult collector, where does your loyalty (and money) lay?


    Speaking for myself. If HasTaK were ever to go the way that I mentioned, 3P groups will start losing a lot of my money. MMC would still rank high on my priority list but that is because they are doing an HOS line that HasTak would never do. FP is FP, I think they will always get my money. So far any group filling holes on my Classics shelf will get money but that all depends on what HasTak shows us coming down the pipe line. iGear and their PP line will sink and sink fast seeing as how it is competing with the official MP line and they are pretty much the same scale and more expensive. iGear still wins with the MiniWarriors but realy how many more spots are left to be filled in the Classics line?

    It is a big what if but if it were ever to happen I can see Hastak pulling me back in 95% and dropping a lot of 3P stuff. That other 5% is FP, I don’t think I would ever drop them.

    What about you guys?
     
  2. Blitz.

    Blitz. Well-Known Member

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    If hasbro made a quality product that ticks all my boxes then sure I will buy it over a 3rd party option.

    For me the 3rd party exist to make those toys Hasbro wont or cant if Hasbro suddenly 180 and go totally collector focused so long as the product is good their really is no need for the 3rd party unless you want different heads and guns etc.
     
  3. TigerBlade

    TigerBlade Prepare for extermination

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    Depends. Masterpiece will win out for me most of the time (apart from MP11 mold...I really don't like that) but for the figs Takara can't/won't do, for example Devastator and possibly some of the '84 cars they may have issues with getting licensing for then it's third parties all the way.

    TBH I think those two complement each other and between them I can see them completing G1.
     
  4. Max Rawhide

    Max Rawhide Well-Known Member

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    I buy what I like. I have no loyalty to either Takara/Hasbro or 3P. I'm a TF fan and I buy the figures I want. If those are made by HasTak, then they get my money. If they don't do it and a 3P does, the the 3P gets my money.

    And the other way around. A 3P can make a very good figure, but if I have zero interest in it, then I won't buy it.

    I must, however, admit that this year I think I will buy more 3P than HasTak -- or actually Takara, since Hasbro releases very little that interests me. And that I think is my biggest problem with the current mainlines. Nothing that interests me as a collector. I don't mind the current TF series (sometimes they deliver beautiful figures), but I do think that there's not enough for me as a collector. If, for example, PRiD had RotF-level Leader class figures or human alliance, then I'd be interested in buying some PRiD figures. Right now, no thanks so I can happily spend money on the few Takara figures I want (read MP) and 3P products.


    If Hastak go the other way and indeed also cater to collectors, then they probably get more of my money. It all depends on what they make and what the quality is.
     
  5. dkr7

    dkr7 "Argh' Hexagonal Nuts!"

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    Takara. Hasbro make some that are nice collectibles but Takara has the collectors finish more times than not. I'll only buy 3P if it's an MP style figure and of a character i dont see Takara doing.
     
  6. Compewtrawn

    Compewtrawn Well-Known Member

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    At the end of the day, adult collectors are not the market HasTak will make money from.

    It is like the NYC taxi company wanting Ford to make them taxis right from the factory. They didn't realize that the 4-10,000 cars a year won't swing a company making millions of cars a year to make a specific line for the piddly amount of cars 4-10k represents of the total sales.

    We are the taxi company, they won't make a gigantic line like this unless the adults wanting toys outnumbered kids wanting toys by an undeniable margin. We will get limited release MP's, which if you think about it, you really want this as a collector..
     
  7. deaculpa

    deaculpa Seven Star Fist

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    Well said.
     
  8. harrismonkey

    harrismonkey Well-Known Member

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    I don't necessarily care where it comes from as long as it's good.

    Honestly I'm not that into 3rd party to begin with. I only own 3 currently. I got Springer from fansproject, and while he's vastly superior to any Springer Hasbro has done, he's not that great.

    I also have Cyclops and Annihilator from MMC. So far these are the only 3rd party things I've really been excited about. I will also be getting some of the MMC seekers. And with MMC's HOS toys the execution is good enough (but still leaves room for improvement), but what really excites me is the designs. I LOVE the whole idea of retro steampunk transformers. Hasbro hasn't touched it.

    Make toys Giant isn't bad.

    Over all 3rd party companies are just starting to get anywhere near the level of Has/Tak's better stuff (which is what I liked to begin with).
     
  9. nobudius

    nobudius Well-Known Member

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    I don't think the 3P groups have necessarily catered to the collector's needs as you imply. Well, they certainly continue to try, but some have fared much better than others (obviously) with mixed results. There's been several 3P items that could give the best HasTak garbage a run for their money too.

    Have 3P groups given us better products and toys? That's highly debatable, and needs to answer to my MP Grimlock or my Generations Warpath.

    3P groups have also been atrocious with distribution, deadlines and customer service. Which isn't all that surprising, b/c that's not their specialty. Typical disadvantages of smaller businesses. So we need to consider the good and the bad.

    Now...that Steel Core thing by FansProject. That is interesting. And probably the only line/character HasTak will NEVER touch or replicate for obvious reasons.

    As for Takara, they have stepped up HUGE in my view. The MP line is our "adult collector" line. It's our Lexus compared to the Honda. I thought their Soundwave, from the design to the tapes, CRUSHED whatever the Third Parties had in store. That Laserbeak alone is ridiculous.

    I'm not implying you or anyone else in particular, but it always cracks me up when people bitch about Takara and Hasbro for not giving them what they want. The issue for big companies such as Takara and Hasbro is obviously that: they're BIG companies. Corporate machines. They move slow, have upper management that make final (and sometimes terrible) decisions, and ultimately have to make LOTS of money. That's why they jam Optimus and Bumblebee down our throat every chance they get.

    Who's fault is that? Blame the money. And Michael Bay. I think he has set Transformer toys/collecting back 10-15 years.

    You don't think they could make the Devastator to end all Devastators, leaving the Hercules and the Giants of the world into dust? Of course they can. They have the necessarily resources, designers and talent to BLOW UP your robot palette. What they dont have is the go-ahead to make these projects become a reality. It needs to be feasible AND profitable (among many many other things). That dream Devastator could be sitting on some random designer's desk right now. Or in some random file on a Macbook Pro. That's how these things unfortunately work.

    If the big boys pulled off stunt like iGear did with delaying not-Ironhide & Ratchet, people's head would be rolling.

    So to answer your final question, where does my loyalty lay? It runs with the people who produce the stuff I want. But isn't that the same for everybody?
     
  10. hXcpunk23

    hXcpunk23 The Chaos Bringer

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    A mix of both, actually. I do still like most of the product that HasTakTomy puts out, but I'm also an old school G1 fan that wants figures that can be used as good homages to the OG suckers. This was a big part of why I started customizing, to give myself what they weren't.

    And while I love most 3rd party releases, I only get those that I really want or that have a place in my collection. In other words, G1 inspired or straight up G1 styled. So far, I only own a small handful of 3rd party.......FansProject City Commander, FansProject Protector, ToyWorld Hegemon, & being shipped to me soon......MakeToys Giant. If it's something I feel I can build, I'll go that route. If it's something just too cool for school, I'll consider purchasing, regardless of legit or 3rd party status.

    Also up for consideration soon is Igear Hench.......even though I've basically already built a custom Brawn from Hound (just needs a couple of touch ups & some paint). It's just too awesome to pass on, so I may snag it soon. And whoever can give us Voyager sized Dinobots, gets the cash. Hoping it's 3rd party though, since they seem to be more eager to build something closer to G1 style than HasTakTomy lately.
     
  11. Crimson87

    Crimson87 Senior Member

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    Well first of all Monopolies are bad.... M'Kay. So, I don't believe in HasTaks exclusive rights to transforming robots any more... especially after this many years when they've had a chance to make their profits.

    All the third parties showing up have been a major boom for the consumer. We have diversified and finally there is competition and CHOICE!

    That being said I send money to the guy that makes the best bots.... or the bots I like. And i still do pick up HasTaks stuff... as many times I prefer it when they do it right.


    What your describing basically sounds up my alley. G1 in classics format with all the bots being released rapidly. I'd probably buy'em all as they came out.
     
  12. Tiller

    Tiller I don't know nothin'

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    I buy what I like. Most of the time it doesn't matter from whom. If Hasbro or Takara start catering to me I'll totally go for them. If they don't and some other 3P does, I'll go for them. I don't care for G1 at all so your hypothetical situation isn't ideal in the first place.

    Until I see Hasbro making things like Steelcore I don't think that's going to happen.
     
  13. ORIO

    ORIO Plant-Based Bot Super Mod News Staff

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    A lot. A whole lot.

    I'll just buy what I like, I don't care who makes it just as long as it gets made
     
  14. Cecilia

    Cecilia Transforming

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    There is no loyalty when it comes to money, simple as that. Aside from quality there are factors like price and design which would be my deciding factor between two figures of the same character in the same scale and detail level.. so yeah.

    But if we had more or less the same in everything from a 3rd party, or official Has/tak and it came just about the company, I´d go 3rd party, I am really against companies who do what I like being huge, alwayus disappoints me down the road because they need to catter to the masses, so I feel safer investing on a small company and pray that it stays small, but earns enough to survive small for years to come.

    But then only if products are basically the same.
     
  15. Transbot90210

    Transbot90210 Banned

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    What is Steelcore outside of being a new bot? Hasbro and Takara have been giving us new bots consistantly since 84' so I'm confused as to what you mean.

    I don't mean to single you out but your comment raises some questions. If you are not in to G1, which 3P toys are tickling your fancy? For the most part they are all related to G1 be it in its Classics form or HoS style. Nothing is coming to mind that isn't one or the other other than Steelcore. And then with Steelcore, if you are only interested in him, why wouldn't any other transforming bot line be just as fulfilling?

    I would also state I am not a Hasblow guy. I consistantly collect current lines like TF Prime. Out of 1000 figures 95% are Hasbro/Takara releases.

    It just seems that the 3P market is exploding and it seems like Takara is about to do the same. With both ends exploding my money won't be enough to cover both so choices will have to be made. For me MP's come first. If Takara is going to do what is insinuated, this line will inflate quickly. I am also sure that the 3P groups will jump on this wagon. MT was rumoured to be working on the other 4 MP Dinobots. But then you have to ask, will the 3P Not- so and so figure that sort looks like its G1 counterpart have room in an MP collection that has screen accurate bots and licensed vehicles?

    2013 is going to be a very interesting year.
     
  16. Tiller

    Tiller I don't know nothin'

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    I meant more like figure quality. Steel core is what I want to see more of in Transformers. It is simple but achieves two very different modes with a satisfying transformation. It has a fun gimmick that doesn't compromise the figure in any way and instead adds to it, boasts a wide range of motion, integrated weaponry, and is super solid. That and the sculpting and engineering leaves no unintentional kibble.

    All of that comes down to good design. I don't think it would be so hard to ask for less Prime Arachnid or powerizers and more of something comparable to this.

    As for G1, I'll pick up anything that is quality. Anything that isn't too slavish, or the look tickles my fancy I'll pick up. I have a good few classics, they aren't always my favorites but there is no arguing their quality. Most of them are pretty damn good. I'm looking to get a MP-11 seeker mold, Hasbro's MP-10 and Sideswipe because they look great. Soundwave too, but we'll see. Things like MP Megs or Rodimus didn't do it for me. For third party stuff I've picked up a good bit of FP's offerings and things like combiners. I went with a giant because I liked the bot modes, and MMC's stuff because it looks great. I'm really pulling for PE's Beast Wars bots in BA, Leo Convoy, and Big Convoy. But like I said I pick up what I think is quality, not because it's G1. And for the record, Animated is my favorite Hasbro line.
     
  17. Transbot90210

    Transbot90210 Banned

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    Ah yes, I recall when I finally got SC in hand my first thought was, "Damn this figure is solid, and not just solid, but like the most solid figure I have handled in a dogs age"

    I get you on that, and then you bring in the newer HasTak TF's that focus on simplicity and being as hollow as the toy will allow. That causes a huge contrast between SC and the current mainline HasTak figure. Thanks for the reply.
     
  18. Cecilia

    Cecilia Transforming

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    While Tiller already replied, I have a different reply to thios same question, or questions.

    Yes, Has/Tak has released new characters... in new lines/styles. I am kid of the 80s and I hardly liker a bot which is not blocky and bulky, even fembots I prefer that way, however I do want to see more characters like that, new characters but with a more 80´s style aesthetic to then.

    Has/Tak does the exact opposite of what I want to see: instead of putting up endless sequels to what G1 was, following the same style vut swirching the whole cast to completely new teams of characters each time, they switch what I like (style) and keep what even if I like, am getting tired of (characters).

    I avoid repeating characters in my collection like the plague because I hate this sequence of diferent versions and styles, update for something better yes, but different character designs? nah

    As for the G1 part, I like the aesthetic concept, but I only strive for VERY G1 accurate if I loved the original G1 design 100% (Swipe, Alert, Hot Rod, Kup etc) but I greatly welcome changes to characters I liked but not so much for their design like Bumblebee or Cliffjumper.
     
  19. kaijuguy19

    kaijuguy19 Keyblade Wielder

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    It really depends if either have a couple of figures that I'm interested in. However for now I'm going with the Hasbro and Takara route because as much as I would love to get a third party figure that may not happen for a long time.

    I still collect the mainline figures like Prime,Generations and Kreo but if there's a chance for me to actually get a Third Party figure like the PE Motobot and one of Fansproject's items I would go for it.
     
  20. TigerBlade

    TigerBlade Prepare for extermination

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    If they are anything like iGear Ironhide/Ratchet or what the mini warriors from Hench onwards promise to be then yes.
     

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