Discussion in 'Transformers News and Rumors' started by SilverOptimus, Jun 21, 2016.
Sorry but I don't want TF anywhere near the MCU.
The last Transformer/Avengers crossover I had a chance to read was this comic and it was not awsome
I think that a modern Iron-Man/Transformers crossover could look good, a WW2 Captain America/Transformers or GOTG/Transformers space opera, too
Well, on the other side of the coin, if it was NOT done right we would all be arguing and fighting not only amongst each other but also with all of the Marvel fans...
Maybe an enterprising fan full of imagination (not me, my imagination got sucked out of me when I became a working stiff doing 80 hours a week) can do a fanfic weaving The Last Knight/GOTG/The Collector/The Star Saber together.
I bet you that a fanfic would make for a better story than whatever else they (recycle) conjure up....
Yeah, but then that would involve Disney getting their hands on even part of the rights to Transformers.
The entire reason the HUB was developed as an independent channel for Hasbro largely was to avoid going through the same problems with Cartoon Network, which co-owned the rights to TFA, screwing over Animated in the time slots, and it took YEARS for them to finally allow a S3 DVD release.
Disney to this day refuses to even allow a release of the original RID cartoon.
Now how much of that money actually went back to the production company as profit? Because at the very least, the $301 million AoE pulled in China did not go back to Paramount - the agreements with the government stipulated that China would keep 75% of the box office, so that's only $75 million that actually was made in profit for the film itself.
Hmm, I have no idea, but Age of Extinction was the most profitable movie of 2014 and the runner-ups included American Sniper, Hobbit, Guardians of the Galaxy and Captain America: Winter Soldier (Most Profitable Movies Of 2014: What Made Most At Box Office & Beyond? | Deadline)
The numbers in stats are from box-office grosses. If you have the data for MCU and TCU on how does box-office gross comes back to production could you share it? I bet it would be pretty interesting to look at
Edit: Found the data on years 2014-2015, but it does not tell us much.
1. Age of Ultron - $382.32M
2. Age of Extinction - $250.155
3. Guardians of the Galaxy - $204.2
4. Winter Soldier - $166.224
5. Ant-Man - $103.90M
On average: MCU = $214.161, TCU = 250.155
If we analize the trend of the CUs at box-office, the MCU seems to keep earning more, and the TCU seems to be earning less at home box-office. I suspect that the Avengers (2012) will be higher on the list than AOU (smaller budget, bigger income), GOTG was a surprise hit, so I suspect that when it comes to profits it will stand higher than the previous solo movies, so the lacking numbers: Avengers $400, every other MCU movie $100-200M. I can't say much about Transformers, AOE was the weakest at home box-office, but second world-wide, so I gues the rest of the TCU movies will sit similary at $200-250M.
While I applaud this effort, I find this to be a manipulation of stats. We're on a transformers board. Naturally, some of the most vehement defenders and attackers of the material will be here. Academy awards for special effects and such certainly have merit, but I think that obscures the general idea being conveyed. I don't think anyone is claiming the MCU is challenging for best picture, yet TF *is* competing for razzies. Both have made changes to the source material, but they differ on their use of humor, design success, and storytelling. Just look at how g1ers view the original cartoon - optimus, Starscream, bumblebee, jazz, cliffjumper, Ironhide, Grimlock, etc all have diehard fans because they had unique (in a captivating way) designs, voices, actions, abilities, etc. There is a reason you see kids wearing captain america, iron man, spider-man, and to a lesser extent hulk, thor, and likely black panther stuff whereas despite 5 movies, people only really identify with Optimus and BB. One universe is perceived to have a wholesomeness and the other perceived to be rather crude. They're father apart than they are similar.
Technically, we're arguing what's better: McDonalds or Burger King? Sure we can argue the number of unsatisfied clients, but in the end they are both restaurants that have no Micheline star.
Edit: What manipulation of stats? Can you elaborate? The main argument on the board was Oscar-worthiness and amount of cash at the box-office, so I did numbers on that. If you want numbers on Razzies -- do it yourself
Please indulge me then... if it's so obvious it shouldn't take too long! If I'm wrong, I'll admit, but the numbers do not support your conclusions.
Manipulation had a connotation I didn't really intend. Your stats are accurate, but I took your basic idea to be that the universes were comparable due to the number of awards each received on average, etc. My contention was that this metric doesn't carry much weight in the big picture given the awards in question don't necessarily correlate with the quality of the story or movie as a whole. Best picture, best acting, best screenplay...those would be metrics that would carry more weight, but none of them apply.
Box office, admittedly, does have value in this discussion, but comparing 5 movies to however many the MCU has isn't really apples to apples either. Let's see if TF has legs in the same way before declaring it at least financially comparable to the MCU.
I view the restaurant analogy a bit differently. I'd say TF is the McDonalds while MCU is like Panera. They're both basically fast food and not fine dining, but with a bigger difference between them. People can like them both, but the quality of the food and perception of each is rather different.
There was a time when I'd have said 'Go for it.'. But not after what they did with the first four movies of the current TF movieverse.
If they ever make a Transformers/Marvel crossover movie, I'd want them using a new Transformers live-action continuity. The current movie continuity is bit of a mess as it is.
It'll be interesting to see if the folks from the Writers Room will explain how the various random bits and pieces from Movies 1, 2, 4 and 4 connect together. Or course, it doesn't help that the original writers(?) pretty much admitted they hadn't thought that through, either.
Maybe, I'll change my mind after TF5. I'd probably be open to a story about the movie Cybertronians ending up in Iron Man's Marvel universe and meeting their parallel universe selves.
You know, that could actually work .
Got it! The stats were more for guys who were arguing box-office numbers and Oscar nominations
As you said, none of MCU or TCU movies has nominations in categories that concerns the quality of the story. By that denominator Lord of the Rings swept them off their feet and even Pirates of the Caribbean did better
Opinions are fickle things, they change. Ten years ago Marvel wasn't universally loved and almost went bankrupt. The DC surely has seen better days. In its early days Fast and Furious wasn't doing so hot and look were it's now. Who knows what will happen in the next 10 years?
That's why I don't argue about quality of the pop-movies. Besides, what's the point of arguing the quality of a movie you don't even care about or don't like? To show off how awesome you're toy is compared to someone's else? The key to good toy is not how fancy it is, but how much enjoyment it brings you. And I can tell you that you can have a lot of fun even with a few bottle caps if you know how to use them
THIS. That's what I've unsuccessfully been trying to put forth for the past few pages. The people holding up the Marvel movies are perfectly entitled to prefer the Whopper to a Big Mac, but to pretend there is some huge gulf between these two kinds of junk food is ludicrous.
Except one thing. Many of them aren't pretending.
I admit to being one of them. I've been a long time fan of Transformers, Marvel, and Lord of the Rings. I've been very impressed by what was done with Lord of the Rings and Marvel, despite certain changes. It seemed obvious to me that they were done by people who cared about and understood the source material.
With Transformers, on the other hand, they wasted (meaning killed off and wasted) many characters with great potential - often before they became characters, somehow failed to notice that Brawl was not Devastator - (how could anyone who knew anything about Transformers miss that), reduced the legendary Fallen to a Palpatine wannabe - complete with dialogue cut-and-pasted straight of Star Wars and, okay, I'll stop there.
The Transformers movies have some really great moments, but they're badly written compared to Marvel's. There's definitely a huge gulf there.
Transformers movies have had bad scripts and the lack of an overall plan are the two biggest flaws.. It's as simple as that.
I need to work on my communication skills. Yes, that pretty much sums it up.
And the MCU doesn't have it's share of wasted characters that had good potential? I mean for example can you name one MCU villain so far that isn't Loki,Ultron,and Zemo as well as the Netflix villains and AoS that had any lasting impression or in some cases had potential to be amazing villains yet got severely downplayed or not used enough to be interesting? I can't because that's how wasted their potential was done.
Look I know the TF movies aren't perfect in mostly of it's executions especially ROTF but I also know that not even the MCU always get things perfect or in some cases do things that people don't like at all.
Say what you want.
but if Hasbro actually wanted to "tell great stories" they would start over and not make action flicks with poor writers that only appeal to the lowest common denominator in order to pull in cash.
Don't read this next part if you are sensitive about opinions. Especially ones that could differ from yours. I'm looking at YOU twelve-year-old Jeffery
Honestly I could care less about the movies under normal circumstances, but unfortunately as the most exposed form of the franchise, when I say, "I like transformers" the first thing they will likely think of are childish movies with terrible writing. In fact most of the time I can tell by their confused look that they pity me. Every time I have to explain what all transformers can be. "It wasn't all about sex jokes, bad comedy, and cgi that makes you feel ill while watching. There is good transformers media out there."
So yeah personally, the movies make me feel ashamed of being a "transformers" fan simply because of how broad the term is. And I know there other nonsensical parts of the franchise. Kiss players is probably worse but thankfully only we fans know about it, and Generation 1 is a mess but in goofy, innocent way; not a "how could they pour billions of dollars into this pandering drivel" sort of way. The first bay movie may have been decent and the movie comics may have admirably attempted to piece the stories together, but nothing can undo all that like the way I felt when I came out intellectually insulted after watching Revenge of the Fallen for the first time.
In the end -for me anyways- I see the current transformers movies as a parasite. A giant ugly parasite that only serves to make money by taking advantage of people. And in a way, I almost envy the people who can turn off their brains enough to enjoy them. Almost. My preference would be that they start fresh with more character-centered writing based around the transformers and a plot that isn't just an excuse for the director to go what he considers "cool locations". But we all know that's not going to happen, anyway.
I'm sorry for desiring quality entertainment.
That was a beautiful post.
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