Hasbro is not mad: My take on Prime

Discussion in 'Transformers Robots In Disguise / Prime Discussion' started by Joalro, Dec 15, 2010.

  1. Joalro

    Joalro Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2010
    Posts:
    598
    Trophy Points:
    112
    Likes:
    +20
    There is a lot of discussion on WFC and Prime and how crazy Hasbro is for trying to combine the two. Some people say it's obvious Hasbro is just trying to put all their new shiny things together, some discuss the difference between continuity families vs same continuities.

    It has been mentioned before, but I'm going to bring up the third option.

    Perhaps, just perhaps, Hasbro is not out to lunch. We know that Prime is going to be doing a lot of exploration of the history of The War. We also know there are already 4 seasons planned with a production bible outlining them. Perhaps Prime's history is more rich than we originally imagined. Perhaps the two media ARE connected.

    WFC in many ways seems very much like a prequel to G1 (despite there being several discontinuities to that as well). The characters have similar personalities, the War seems to have a very G1-esque feel to it. With a few minor tweaks, WFC could indeed be a prequel to G1.

    What if Prime is going to be a fractured continuity from G1, much in the way that the writers, Kurtzman and Orci, did for the newest Star Trek movie?

    My idea is that WFC represents a split from G1 into the Prime continuity. At first the war was headed in the same direction as G1, with actually very little happening from leaving Cybertron to colliding with earth. And then something happened, something epic, that changed everything. One event that led to another, that led to another, that led to Prime. We know that's very much within the whelm of probability knowing who the writers are.

    Some things that would need to be included would be a reformatting, similar in fashion to the Great Upgrade from the Beast Era, resulting in different appearances. Also, somehow knowledge of Dark Energon must somehow be contaminated.

    My belief is that the big event that changed everything is the discovery of Dark Energon itself. This is something that clearly did not happen in G1, and is what led to a completely different timeline. Somehow, history changed when transformers discovered the Dark Energon and took it back to cybertron to study. Dark Energon is the key to everything.

    Also, my theory on why the autobots and decepticons seem to know so little on Dark Energon when it was so fundamental to the War for Cybertron is based on some physics.

    Imagine that Energon and Dark Energon represent some sort of symmetry, similar (yet different) to matter and anti-matter. The two coming together result in some very interesting effects. One such effect is bringing dead Energon based life back to life.

    Another aspect of this theory is that the joining of Energon and Dark Energon is unstable. Just being around Dark Energon caused Ratchet and Optimus to feel sluggish during the battle against the Undead. After they were away from the exposure, the effect wore off. Perhaps that even the very memory of Dark Energon is unstable in an Energon being. Therefore, the very memory slowly dissolves from the Energon beings in an exponential decay rate (with a very long half life) so by the time we get to Prime, nearly all of the memories have dissipated.

    I know a lot of this seems far fetched, but it all comes together nicely under one package. Dark Energon can explain it all.

    Part of me truly believes that the differences in the show are intended to create disbelief so that the revelations from the show will seem more epic.

    And for one more element to my argument, note that any time images from the past are shown, they ARE within continuity with WFC. Cybertron itself looks just like the one from WFC, as well as the actual designs for the Autobots and Decepticons in the pictures of the past war. Any differences between the continuities take place MILLIONS of years later, allowing for things to develop.

    Perhaps I'm stretching things a little, or perhaps Hasbro repetition of "they are the same time-line" with a small smile is supposed to be a clue
     
  2. Wollstone

    Wollstone Banned

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2010
    Posts:
    4,238
    Trophy Points:
    151
    Likes:
    +0
    The people arguing that the continuities don't fit are just impatient.

    Beast Wars didn't fit in with G1 continuity after 5 episodes, but nobody argues that it isn't a continuation of G1.

    All story continuities have discrepancies. None of them are perfect.
     
  3. Chopperface

    Chopperface Holtzmanned

    Joined:
    Dec 13, 2009
    Posts:
    9,915
    News Credits:
    7
    Trophy Points:
    227
    Location:
    Holtzbert
    Likes:
    +137
    Damn, you're a good thinker. I really don't know what to say, I'm afraid of looking silly compared to your deep, in-depth post. :thumbs2: 

    You bring up a helluva lotta good ideas. I never considered the Star Trek idea Bob and Alex pulled with Star Trek. It's a bit confusing, but it's definetly looking more plausible to me, the way you explained.

    Remember how Beast Wars started with it being pretty ambiguous and unclear what continuity it was in? Prime could be pulling the same trick here, albeit with more and more references to its' actual continuity later on, like Beast Wars.
     
  4. Hook

    Hook Out of Options Veteran

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2002
    Posts:
    11,454
    Trophy Points:
    267
    Location:
    Gatineau, Quebec
    Likes:
    +2
    Facebook:
    Finally a well thought, well written post in the Prime forums. Welcome aboard!
     
  5. HEDGESMFG

    HEDGESMFG Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2006
    Posts:
    35
    Trophy Points:
    71
    Likes:
    +0
    Are people really going that mad over the inconsistencies?

    First, let's address visual differences... these are TRANSFORMERS! The whole point of them is that they literally change from one thing to another. Look at how different Bay Protoform Movie Prime looks from his main design in the film. If we can accept a change of that magnitude near instantaneously, I can certainly accept the change from WFC to Prime Aesthetics. Jarring from a marketing PoV? Yes. But physically impossible? Not for our nanite infested cybertronian friends, no sir-ie.

    Also, for all the vagueness about Dark Energon that's stated in the episodes, not everyone seen acts like they've never heard of it. Ratchet seems to realize what it is once it's made clear. Prime knows. Megs and Starscream certainly seem to have a good idea.

    Bumblebee not having a voice? Yeah, I hate that carryover from the Bay films, but hey, it can happen. Tons of reasons why it could happen. Voiceless Bee is iconic for millions of people, just as original Bee was. That shouldn't be seen as much of a continuity issue.

    The flashbacks? When I listened to them, it seemed pretty clear to me the writers were referencing a time when Megs and Prime fought side by side as metaphorical brothers, not necessarily as literal brothers. And one doesn't always need to take flashbacks literally in CG shows where current show assets get re-used. It doesn't mean events didn't happen as seen in Prime or Exodus.

    Cyberton sure looks pretty similar, at least in space. I hope we get to see more of the planet in Prime, somehow. One of my biggest pet peeves with recent TF material is how 'little' cybertron has been featured since the film universe began. Game aside.

    Really, people. I know they don't mesh perfectly, but fitting them together is hardly a big stretch. I think, when all is said and done, we could have a pretty cool G1+movie inspired verse to play around with, and one that may actually have quality writing for once.
     
  6. Joalro

    Joalro Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2010
    Posts:
    598
    Trophy Points:
    112
    Likes:
    +20
    I sort of feel like you didn't read my first post at all... I'm not mad that there are inconsistencies. I'm more intrigued by them. If they end up being disconnected and Hasbro tells us that we are supposed to just hand-waveingly accept that they are all one and the same, so be it. I'll live my life just fine.

    However, discontinuities can really mess with the epic nature of a story. For example, Planet of the Apes. As a whole, the series really sucked. It was actually terrible. In my opinion, it was actually fairly close to being really epic though. The story appeared to be a cycle that led from the future back to the past, back to the future. But the stories were terribly inconsistent and ruined the entire effect.

    If Prime and WFC are supposed to be one, but don't FEEL like they are one, it really doesn't give you this feeling of epic satisfaction.

    My main point, if you read my post, was that WFC and Prime CAN mesh perfectly. And personally, if they do take the route outlined in my post, Prime may end up being one of the most epic, and perfect renditions of transformers ever.
     
  7. bellpeppers

    bellpeppers A Meat Popsicle

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2008
    Posts:
    13,588
    News Credits:
    9
    Trophy Points:
    257
    Likes:
    +246
    I've had similar thoughts regarding this as well.

    Problem is, unless the TV show goes back and re-records dialogue to fix the MANY continuity differeces, there is no way that PRIME can be a sequel to WFC.

    However, it's not too late for the two to be in the same continuity family- however, we need to see that event of the continuity split.

    Now, allow me to re-iterate my position: I was never opposed to WFC, Exodus and PRIME being the same continuity. owever, they contradict each other- too much to give a pass on.

    BUT....

    My take:

    PRIME and WFC continuities split sometime before the events of WFC. We just don't know when.

    WFC was a G1 reboot. Just about everyone can agree to this.
    I suspect PRIME was Orci and Kurtzman's Movieverse reboot to be a kids cartoon.

    WFC was in production first... (I am assumin- due to the length it takes to make a game like this, it's been in developement long before PRIME went into developement. So, conceivably, Dark Energon originated with the WFC G1 Reboot.

    Hasbro wants to joint the two- which is fine. They probably told Orci and Kurtzman to incorporate the concept somewhere.

    So, one has to conclude that if / since WFC is a G1 reboot, then PRIME is a sequel to G1. (well, the G1 reboot that is).

    And I am o.k. with that. Actualy, It would make me giddy as a school kid.

    For those who adhere to Exodus, they have to conceed that the characters of PRIME are project Generation One.

    As for their re-formatted forms... that could have happened in the previous battles that occurred before this show.

    I don't think anyone was ever agry; HASBRO wants people to think a certain way about Transformers, and the differences prevent many of us from honestly doing it.
     
  8. Wollstone

    Wollstone Banned

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2010
    Posts:
    4,238
    Trophy Points:
    151
    Likes:
    +0
    Oh for God's sakes. Those dialogue problems you keep insisting on bringing up have been explained over and over again. It's simple logic and story telling.

    The only thing keeping anyone from shrugging them off is an baffling need to complain about something/anything.
     
  9. Joalro

    Joalro Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2010
    Posts:
    598
    Trophy Points:
    112
    Likes:
    +20
    I've played WFC, and I've watched the Prime mini-series around 4 times. I'm not sure of these vast amount of continuity differences you are talking about. Prime is nearly void of information. We could probably state all the facts we know about it on a cue card. There's no way it can contradict THAT much.

    And I'm saying Prime is not a sequel to G1, but a alternate timeline within the same multiverse.
     
  10. bellpeppers

    bellpeppers A Meat Popsicle

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2008
    Posts:
    13,588
    News Credits:
    9
    Trophy Points:
    257
    Likes:
    +246
    There is a big difference between "not fitting in right away" and "contradicting immediately".

    Where is all your blind faith in Hasbro's word originating?
     
  11. Jive Guru

    Jive Guru Professional Amateur

    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2010
    Posts:
    489
    Trophy Points:
    76
    Likes:
    +0
    What I want to know is what a "Continuity Family" is. I don't understand what this statement means in this context. It sounds to me like some marketing buzzword.

    Something is either in continuity or it isn't.
     
  12. Wollstone

    Wollstone Banned

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2010
    Posts:
    4,238
    Trophy Points:
    151
    Likes:
    +0
    It's not blind faith, it's being intelligent enough to recognize more than one interpretation of an exchange of dialogue. When there is an interpretation that solves the problem, then the only reason to ignore it would be to continue reveling in that problem.
     
  13. Joalro

    Joalro Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2010
    Posts:
    598
    Trophy Points:
    112
    Likes:
    +20
    I know my first post is quite lengthy, but don't just read the first line and post.
    This topic is NOT a topic to simply rehash the continuity errors and say "that's a rap". Think up an explanation as to why the continuity errors CANNOT be resolved, and come back to me.

    Preferably, read my entire first post and comment on my actual ideas. That's why I bothered explaining them.
     
  14. bellpeppers

    bellpeppers A Meat Popsicle

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2008
    Posts:
    13,588
    News Credits:
    9
    Trophy Points:
    257
    Likes:
    +246
    Ya know, there is an attempt at a mature, serious discussion here. Could you please refrain from this type of stuuf and actually contribute rationally?

    Please? This once?
     
  15. Joalro

    Joalro Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2010
    Posts:
    598
    Trophy Points:
    112
    Likes:
    +20
    I don't have as an extensive knowledge on transformers as some do, I have never read any of the comics, but my understanding of the idea is this.

    A continuity implies that all the events in a time-line follow an obvious cause and effect progression.

    A continuity family is different stories involving the same characters, themes, persona's etc, where some contradicting ideas are allowed. So the G1 comics don't always follow the exact same plot as the G1 cartoon, and often have strong contradictions. Entire origins can be completely different. However, since both the comics and the show and the same characters, personalities, themes, and basic story-line, they are within the G1 continuity family.
     
  16. bellpeppers

    bellpeppers A Meat Popsicle

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2008
    Posts:
    13,588
    News Credits:
    9
    Trophy Points:
    257
    Likes:
    +246
    You might not be- but I am.
     
  17. Joalro

    Joalro Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2010
    Posts:
    598
    Trophy Points:
    112
    Likes:
    +20
    Do you have any comments on the actual first post?
     
  18. bellpeppers

    bellpeppers A Meat Popsicle

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2008
    Posts:
    13,588
    News Credits:
    9
    Trophy Points:
    257
    Likes:
    +246
    I think you are confusing intelligence with assuming & putting words in the mouths of others.

    Your explanations have had no rational basis... only selective memory loss and straw grasping.
     
  19. Deceptijohn

    Deceptijohn Metallikato Master

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2010
    Posts:
    2,051
    News Credits:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    151
    Likes:
    +1

    That's a cop-out. There are 5 bajillion ways they could claim to make any continuity problems "work". Aliens did it, time travel, blah blah blah sci-fi cliches ad infinitum(you see a lot of this throughout the different TF series). That doesn't mean it will be satisfying to hard core fans looking for a good story in a continuity that makes sense without a crap ton of mcguffins. Your argument sounds like a religious person saying yeah I have no proof of god, but you can't disprove him either. Lack of evidence proves nothing. I say we wait to see what IS done and then talk about that rather than go round and round about what COULD be done.
     
  20. shroobmaster

    shroobmaster Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2007
    Posts:
    13,629
    News Credits:
    30
    Trophy Points:
    201
    Likes:
    +30
    Basically, know how G1 Cartoon and G1 Comics are COMPLETELY DIFFERENT yet still G1? Know how Energon Cartoon and Energon comics are also COMPLETELY DIFFERENTY yet both Energon? That's a continuity family.
     

Share This Page