There is a little curl to his character in this story that is intuitive enough, that he keeps trying not to be a giant skidmark but always winds up reverting to type. If this wasn't such a transparent bandaid story it would be kind of clever. And I think if this story were written about any Prowl other than IDW Prowl it would be pretty darn good.

Ryan F, you and SMOG will have a great time hating MTMTE once you get to it, but until then I hope the Costa run is gentle on you.

 

Dude! Spoilers!

 

Really enjoying your reviews, Ryan.

 

Besides mentioning that Whirl becomes a great character under Roberts, I don't think I really mentioned the current books above. Ryan's currently in the Costa stuff though, and has already listened to the Costa interview, so I'm not ruining any surprises there.  

Haha... a real time-capsule there. I was a bit older than you, but you're my brother's age, so all those memories feel close to home.  

Yeah, there definitely seemed to be an understanding with the comics writers that they were aiming a little higher than the cartoon in terms of character development and intricate plotting (lapses aside). On the one hand, just because of the sheer number of G1 episodes, often side characters would get a spotlight episode, while the monthly comics never had the luxury of breaking with their ongoing plots to place much focus on Powerglide or Ramjet or whoever... but on the other hand, the comics had a real knack for plucking otherwise obscure characters out of the crowd, and making them stand out. I was impressed by the sheer bravado of how Budiansky used guys like Ratchet or Ratbat, or how Thunderwing or Bludgeon would take over lead villain duties for a while under Furman.

Yeah, those UK characters used in LSotW are really a special case, because even though they had bios, they were from the post-Budiansky age, and painfully vapid, only talking about how every character was a super-awesome-ultra-powerful-leader-of-the-universe. They were really bios that, more than any others, felt like they were only there to sell toys to dumb kids.  

So in that sense, I really don't begrudge Roche and Roberts for creating those characters (almost) from whole cloth, since there was so little there to begin with. I think Rotorstorm's personality was even inspired by his bio, which is so adulatory that it sounds like he wrote it himself.  

One minor point - the Roberts character you mention was never a tall-tale sort of guy in his original bio... almost more of a delusional Autobot SJW. In fact, a few of Roberts' core characters feel as though he basically threw away their G1 bios. However, what I do think is interesting about some of those MTMTE regulars is how they were initially written with different characters in mind, but Roberts didn't have access to them. Knowing who they were originally supposed to be, the personality links start to seem more obvious (though it's hard to imagine them as anyone else now).

Exactly, yeah!

Yeah, I feel similarly. The Spotlight story is an acceptable take on Prowl... but falls a bit flat after Nick Roche basically dropped the mic when it comes to Prowl stories.

MOW, you weren't around at the time, so you wouldn't know... but for the first 2 years or so of MTMTE, I was an adoring devotee and champion of the series. I still think it's probably the single greatest and best-written run of any Transformers story in the history of the franchise. However, it obviously couldn't last, and I'm a lot more critical of the stuff that came later. Its quirks and foibles weigh a lot heavier on the stories from the last couple of years. I am curious to see how Ryan takes to MTMTE (or doesn't, as the case may be).

Pshaw. No spoilers there. All I said is that a character dies during Infestation, and that down the line, they tie that death in with other stuff. The devil is in the details.  

zmog

 

So, just finished the Costa run for the first time, aside from the Autocracy trilogy this was the only part of the IDW continuity I had to finish reading up on. Just wanted to put down some thoughts for the sake of it, no spoilers. So the Costa run, just counting the 31 issues and nothing that came inbetween like Bumblebee or Wreckers, how bad was it for me? ... It was alright in my opinion. Not as bad as I expected it to be, could have been a lot better but I was definitely having fun with some of the characters and events later. I'll want to reread the final two story arcs because they were a bit (excuse the pun) chaotic when I read them, but I'm glad to have them over and done with for now. I will say the final issue was a nice little love letter. :3

Been rereading the entire IDW continuity for about 3 weeks now considering I have some free time at the moment, and with the Furmanation era, All Hail Megatron era and Costa era all done, I can finally reread MTMTE and RID and everything else after before finally catching up with the Revolution story that just launched, it's going to be hurting my head but it'll be fun.   But I'll remember what to say on each previous issue Ryan will review later on.

 

The second half of the Costa run definitely gets a bit better... the first half left me cold, dissatisfied, and bored. It's still obvious that Costa has a very weak grasp on the characters, but at least there's a sense that stuff is happening in that last stretch.

zmog

 

Don't get me wrong - I did appreciate the toy tech specs and even scrapbooked them (along with the art on the front of the box) when I was a kid. They were a gosend, especially for those toys I had (Metroplex, Afterburner, Wideload) who didn't get much in the way of characterisation elsewhere. Indeed, the Tech Specs on Transformers was the element that - to my mind - made them so much better than the Go-Bots, who basically got a name and nothing else.

Whilst I can appreciate the various nods to the original bios in Wreckers et al., I'm obviously not as attached to them as you are! I definitely wouldn't mind seeing a non-grumpy Huffer, or a Weirdwolf who didn't talk like Yoda, or whatever. As with anything, if the writer can justify the use / non-use of the G1 bios as part of a decent story, I'm happy to make the trade. There's an old G1 story from the UK Annuals (Trigger Happy) which really went to town on the old tech specs (even going so far as having characters drop their mottoes into general conversation), and that was pretty terrible. (More on Dan Abnett soon...) I think if Costa had thrown out the tech specs and written something decent, then I think it becomes less of a stick to beat him with. The fact that he changed the characterisation for the sake of the rather underwhelming "Things Fall Apart" arc certainly did him no favours.

More than anything, though, I just want consistency. Whilst I don't think writers of Prowl should necessarily have read the original bio, I do think they should be au fait with the character as he's been written in previous issues - and that's my main bone of contention here.

As an aside (and to pick up on this point), it seemed as though the comic grew up with its audience - the earlier issues definitely seem 'younger' than the later ones (just compare "Dinobot Hunt" with "Dark Creation" to see what I mean. Whilst this means that - from an adult perspective - I can still read and enjoy stuff like "Deadly Obsession" or "Demons", I wonder if that wasn't the very attitude that killed the comic in the first place. The Marvel Transformers comic grew up with its audience who had been there since the early eighties and who were likely in (or approaching) their teens by end of the run. But in catering exclusively for an older audience, I wonder if this had the effect of driving away new fans aged six to ten.

The long-running family franchises (Doctor Who, Star Wars) keep picking up new fans by staying true to their roots, by remaining approachable to all ages. Whilst the younger me preferred "Edge of Extinction" to "Child's Play", I always wonder whether we needed a few more stories like the latter, in order to continue making the series relevant to its target audience of kids, to bring new readers on board.

Cheers, much appreciated!

Thanks for this - I've seen a lot of bad stuff written about the Costa era so I'm going into the rest of it with a little trepidation, but it's stuff like this that keeps me going!

 

Infestation: Transformers #1

2/5. Mindless fun, with emphasis on the mindless.

In true contrarian style I decided to ignore everyone and buy the Infestation Omnibus. I’m glad I did, because I would never have understood the cliffhanger ending otherwise!

I was never really into comic crossovers when I was a kid, basically because I was unable to buy those issues of Action Force that contained the end of “Ancient Relics” in it, so I never saw the ending until I was an adult. This really cheesed me off at the time, and left me with a bit of a loathing for crossovers. But if I’m going to give these issues a decent crack of the whip, it’s only fair that I should be up to speed with what’s going on in them.

I won’t spend too much time on the “prelude” issue, but it focuses on the characters from another IDW comic, called CVO: Covert Vampiric Operations, which is basically about a group of monsters and demons who help the US Government defeat mystical villains, like a weird cross between the X-Files and Angel. Apparently CVO was co-developed with video game publishers Konami in the hopes of making a tie-in game, but I guess that fell through (probably once they saw the comic sales figures – in September 2006, Stormbringer #3 sold nearly 19K copies compared to CVO’s meagre 1,717.

If I were being cynical, I’d suggest that Infestation was purely an attempt to get people to read CVO by ‘piggybacking’ it onto more successful brands like Transformers, Star Trek and Ghostbusters. Whilst the opening CVO issue is relatively fun, the overall premise is so hokey (Stargates, zombies, a vampire with giant boobs, people having premonitions in dreams, clunky exposition*) that it doesn’t exactly want to make me check out the rest of the series. Apparently the invading zombies and zombie robots are from yet another IDW franchise (Zombies vs Robots), and they use the Stargates as a means to invade other universes, using a possessed Britt (one of the CVO staff) as a conduit.

All of which leads us into the actual Transformers comic, which sees Galvatron and his three Dead Universe underlings – Bayonet, Scourge and Cyclonus – track the rampaging, universe-hopping zombies and zombie robots to present-day Earth. The Autobots (plus Spike and his Skywatch buddies) arrive on the scene, and completely misunderstand the situation, shooting at Galvatron and his goons rather than the zombies.

Whilst it makes for a decent action opening, it makes the Autobots come across as really thick here, disregarding Galvatron’s protestations and attacking the Dead Universe crew rather the zombies. You’d think someone like Optimus Prime (or indeed Prowl) would be a little less gung-ho and actually assess a situation before going in all guns blazing.

What I do appreciate, however, are the nods to IDW continuity here. Whilst I was a bit cheesed off with the whole Prowl issue in the ongoing, it does finally look as though things might be tightening up. We have the Dead Universe crew, another reference to Spotlight: Kup (the demonic appearance of the zombies reminds him of the nightmarish visions he had whilst stranded), and with Skywatch involved it ties nicely into the ongoing.

But it takes ten pages for the Autobots to finally work out what’s going on, and that’s pretty unforgivable. The only other story I can think of which comes close is “Time Wars”, where the present-day Autobots had a pointless fight with the future Autobots over a misunderstanding. The battle looks nice, and Nick Roche again does a bang-up job on this, but it’s essentially just padding, pure and simple. And in a two-part story, that’s pretty unforgivable.

So when the fighting eventually stops and the Autobots cease their utter stupidity, what follows is a flashback exposition, where we discover how Galvatron discovered the zombies, and where they came from.

Which leads us into the cliffhanger, where the now-deranged Kup (who lost his cy-gar during the battle) realises what’s going on – who is Bayonet? Where did she come from? “Since when was there a Bayonet?” This prompts Bayonet to impale Kup (awwww) and reveal her true face: this is actually Britt, and she wants to bring about the end of the world.

This is the point at which I’m glad I read the opening Infestation issue, as the whole “Britt” thing would have been a head-scratcher otherwise – not just because I wouldn’t know what was going on, but because it makes for a much better cliffhanger if you know who Britt actually is.

Overall, I can’t really recommend this comic – you need to have read the CVO stuff to fully get it, and most of the page count is either Autobots being incredibly dim or Galvatron’s exposition. This really ought to be a complete stinker.

And yet, on some level, this does appeal. Intellectually, this is really poor, but yet for some reason I find it a fun, colourful, rompy run-around. This is way more fun that it has any right to be.

It’s larger than life, it has zombies in it, and it’s drawn by Nick Roche. There is action galore. This is IDW-does-Michael Bay. Leave your brain at the door and enjoy the explosions.


*And I mean really clunky exposition. Sample line: “Look, you’re a vampire. You thought your wife and son were dead, but they’re not, and your boss hid it from you. You can never see them again anyway, and your best bud turned up as a zombie.”

 

Infestation might not have been a very good multi-crossover event. However, the events of the next issue played a role later down the road, you'll see.  

And while you might not like this, I'll think you'll like Revolution, when you eventually get to it that is.... Which probably will be quite awhile.

Either way, you got one more issue then you'll finally get back to the main series.

 

I don't think that's cynicism; that's publishing reality, much like the new Hasbro-mandated crossover.

 

Well, I mean... if you're going to break the rules and ignore the actual content and fans you're supposedly writing for, then you at least had better write something goddamn amazing to cover your ass.

I think it becomes more galling to later hear Costa whinging about how none of the Transformer characters have any personalities, and how they're all just generics. It's basically an unwitting mea culpa that he didn't do ANY frickin' research at all. It's as if he expected that a writer can just come in and write whatever the hell he wants. That's not what being a writer is. It's not freestyling. Good writers do research. It's part of their damn jobs.

If a TF author can't be bothered to take the literal less than 5 minutes to read the readily available TFwiki page and original bio for the character they're about to write for (pretty much definitionally the least he could do) then I don't think there's any reason I should waste my time on their writing. There's just no excuse for writing from a space of ignorance in this context. You can follow the original bios, or you can depart from them in a knowing and respectful (or even subversive) way... but you're not allowed to wholly ignore them. That's a critical failure before you even begin.

And of course, there's also the argument that, if you want to write wholly original characters, create your own series. Don't piggback on a 30-year-old fiction with an established fandom, and expect to get away with not doing your due diligence. That's my feeling about it. You have to know your medium before you can credibly muck with it.

I wonder. I would be inclined to lay that mostly on the general passing of Transformers out of the public and commercial eye. It would be perhaps too much to expect the comic (which was never a -great- comic) to sustain itself on its own. Also, as someone who followed the comics at the time, and who would have been part of that aging readership, I would say it was exactly the opposite phenomenon... as the Transformers commercial fiction started to get goofier, as the commercial product placement demands started to override story, as the comics began to emulate the television cartoon format more and more, I think that's when Marvel's Transformers started to lose me, and lose traction overall.

I feel that the Marvel comics started at a relatively normative comic-book baseline... not what we'd call 'adult' but also not written for a pointedly younger audience. Gradually that changed. The stories got increasingly childish, scatterbrained, and throwaway for a while.

That shifted again when they brought the UK teams on board, and everything started lurching into darker territory. I think that kept a lot of fans at the table, but it was too late for me. I had already moved on. I had lost touch with the new crop of characters. It also didn't help that I hated (HATED) Wildman's art. Senior was cool though. Anyway, at that point, the general vibe of the series seemed sort of eschatological... sliding toward a huge apocalyptic finale. It just didn't hold me the way the earlier, more free-wheeling, adventurous UK stuff had.

I gave the Generation 2 comic a fair shake, happy to have something that had a bit of edge to it, but still a nostalgic twang... but that started to lose me too.

Would the series have endured if they had adopted a more commercial and child-friendly approach? I doubt it. Marvel went that way with GIJOE, and it also tanked. Marvel had a whole line of child-friendly toy tie-in titles under their Star Comics banner, and none of them managed to hold an audience.

I think that once the toy surge wanes, it's hard to maintain that momentum, and it falls to the fans to keep the spirit alive... which is a big part of what's happened with Transformers. When Dreamwave ressurrected the idea of Transformers comics, it really touched off a groundswell we're still riding to some degree...

zmog

 

See years ago I read Heart of Darkness before Infestation and that story took place before this, so I read this after and was like "Wait, who's that? Bayonet? Why is his name so similar to Bayonetta? Or it's a her. Okay but where did she come from? Why is she just stuck in the background? Now she's killing Kup? Whaaaaa?"

Well the issue itself overall is, stupid. Like, proper brain dead stupid, but it's still cheesy fun. It did interest me enough to want to read the other Infestation comics which I'll get around to one day, but the story feels like a major earth shattering event turned into a filler story. Now, the Autobot's reaction to Galvatron feels very rushed, and it doesn't look like Galvatron could give a convincing speech to stop them anyway, a problem that is persistent with him in a later story, but when I read the issue I just, I just stopped for a few minutes gave up on the story for one second and just looked at Roche's art instead, which is very good here but I'll argue that his art in issue 2 is a lot more colorful and pretty.  

It's fun if you're drunk but after the slower pace of the previous costa era issues, the pace in this one feels like several bricks to the face. I know I said I'll remember everything I wanted to say about these issues, but all I remember from this was a big WTF.

 

Ultimately, too, Transformers were simply no longer popular. TMNT was taking OVER the kids toy market and imagination. TF itself was doing... Pretenders, then Micromasters, then Action Masters (the death knell). I mean, even the Headmasters got about three episodes to sell itself.

The comic obviously lost you, SMOG, before that. By the time Furman came on TF was on the downswing, as were most 80s properties. So I don't think making the book more "child friendly" was going to cut it. Kids had moved on; kids had either outgrown TF or were into new shit now. TMNT and then the boom for X-Men and Batman due to their early 90s cartoons.

 

Yeah, exactly... it was the relentless product placement and increasing cartoony child-friendliness that put me off... and honestly, it would have put me off when I was younger as well. Kids can often tell when they're being talked down to. They often like good stories with at least a veneer of 'adult-ness' to them.

When Furman came to the US Marvel run, it almost brought me back. Almost. I was impressed that they had steered back into more serious territory, but not enough to buy in again (I'd already dropped, then picked up, then dropped the TF series).

zmog

 

The irony being that -because- the toyline was faltering, Furman had a far greater degree of creative freedom and control than Budiansky ever had. Obviously he worked with some things that were current - particularly the classic pretenders letting him bring Grimlock to the fore, etc - but with a much greater ability to focus on a smaller core cast.

Anyway, Infestation is just the weirdest, I've never read it and doubt I will.

 

I remember saying, at the time of the... unpleasantness... that, while I didn't expect anyone to know as much as people like us do, I DAMN sure expected Costa to at least have carefully read the then fairly modest TF output that IDW had published. At the very least. That was certainly not too much to ask. I get the feeling Andy Schmidt wanted Costa to come into the series "fresh," or some such nonsense. "Don't feel beholden to what has gone before."

 

Yeah, true... at that point, Hasbro had sort of stopped caring, so Furman had a pretty free hand.

I get the idea of soft-rebooting the IDW continuity, but Costa should have still understood that the G1 fiction extended beyond a half dozen characters and the 1986 movie. He still needs to know who the characters are (or are supposed to be) in order to put his stamp on them.

Truthfully though, Costa didn't veer off too much from the established IDW history. He picked up several elements from All Hail Megatron and some of the earlier stories. He just seems to have completely skipped over the Roche stuff (notably the Prowl story), and of course the original bio content.

zmog

 

I suppose that would matter if I saw the IDW series as part of the G1 universe or some kind of close sibling to it. Instead, I see it as a whole new continuity, in the same way as Bayverse or Animated were.

IDW have already contradicted one of the most well-known bios from the toys (i.e. the Goldbug = Bumblebee thing), which sounds to me like they're just trying to do things their own way whilst still using some of the old G1 trappings. Sure, it's a nice nod to the fans when people like Roche and Roberts use the old bios as a starting point, but in general I'm going into these books with very few assumptions, working on the basis that it's all a clean slate.

I think, in a way, that the Wiki hasn't really helped the situation, by lumping the IDW stuff in with the rest of G1 (although I can see that it works from a filing/systemic point of view). I think people may be expecting almost too much G1-ness out of it, when really it's like a whole new universe of its own, with bits and pieces taken from all facets of the franchise (G2, Beast Wars etc.), but with G1 at the forefront simply because that's the most famous and iconic iteration.

As I said, it's the continuity of personality within IDW that concerns me, not its relationship to previous iterations of G1. I have no qualms about Perceptor being a sniper or Sludge not being shy and gentle, just so long as the characterisation follows from previous issues. And that was my problem with the Costa Prowl.

I prefer to look past those old 80s bios and try to enjoy the IDW-verse for what it is, rather than getting hung up about what it isn't.

 

... Okay guys, I must ask one last time if this is okay to mention this:

Spoiler

Should we bring up the whole Megatron = Galvatron thing? I mean we haven't mentioned it before, and if Ryan knows Galvatron is a separate character from Megatron he hasn't confirmed this yet, but keeping this secret that Furman already established when the spotlight came out is driving me nuts. XD

 

My feeling is that IDW is pretty objectively a G1 variant. I think there's a distinction to be made between "whole new thing" and "same thing with a few changes". Although IDW has become a bit broader later on (elements and characters from other TF fictions coming in), I think its guiding principle and motif has been "G1" right from the very beginning. In that sense, I do expect to see some observance of originary G1 norms... or, alternatively, deviations from that model that demonstrate at least a knowing nod to those origins.

Well, it can't be a clean slate. It already has lifted almost all its characters, factions, names, and relationships wholesale from G1. I don't think a few tweaks or twists here and there actually break it off from G1.

Again, this comes back to the nature of G1 as a thing... it's never been a true "continuity" in strict terms, since G1 has always been based on concurrent variants that share a family of characters and circumstances, but not actually the same chains of chronological events. The fact that the G1 cartoon had an ancient Decepticon Skyfire, and the comics/bios had a newly-minted Autobot Jetfire doesn't make them not both G1. Likewise, Spike vs Buster, Smart Grimlock vs Dumb Grimlock, Quintessons vs Primus, Big Fort Max vs Less Big Fort Max, Japanese Headmasters vs US Headmasters, etc, etc... those are all still under the G1 aegis.

So, in that sense, I certainly don't see Goldbug and Galvatron (this has already been pretty much established in IDW) being separate characters as a deal-breaker for G1-ness. However, I could see why both those things might put some people off, since it does muck with the established historical relations between those characters... the same way I don't like "dumb Onslaught" or "emotional Prowl" because those kind of thoughtlessly eschew the 'canon' so to speak.

I guess, as very broad definition, G1-based fiction for me is any TF fiction that ostensibly takes the G1 Budiansky profiles as the starting point for its universe, character base, and relationships between characters. I think there's a certain amount of variation you can introduce while still keeping the source recognizable... in ways that I feel IDW is, and things like Armada or RID or Animated are not.

I think it's lumped in because IDW has pointedly identified that stream as their "G1 series" in the past. Obviously, it's a new take. It isn't actually a series produced in the context of Transformers' first flush in the 1980s... it is a re-envisioning. But apart from the obvious chronological gulf, I think it still absolutely qualifies.

I think that it has developed along those lines, but that's not its inceptional premise (or why I signed on). There's a reason I didn't collect the Beast Wars or Animated comics. My primary interest is in the G1 fiction and setting. I read these comics to read about those characters... not Optimus Primal or Armada Wheeljack, or whoever. G1 is where my investment is, and it's the basket where this series placed its eggs, knowing that it was the setting that most fans were interested in. In that sense, the elements from BW and other series have essentially been invited in... naturalized to the G1 setting, rather than representing a corruption that removes its G1 status.

Of course, the added wrinkles in all of this are how series like Beast Wars and Generation 2 are technically part of a G1 chronological continuity... even if effectively, something like Beast Wars became a very different thing.

Internal consistency is important too... but as much as I dislike the premise of "SniPerceptor," I can at least acknowledge that he is still a derivation of G1 Perceptor. He's not a new character. He's the same character, whose traumatic experiences (depicted in IDW stories) have shifted his priorities (and for the record, according to his G1 bio, Perceptor was always a sniper, functionally if not by design   ).

Sludge is (and typically has been) lacking enough in characterization that being "shy and gentle" is easily encapsulated in relative terms compared to his fellow Dinobots. He's always been one of the gang, always been a dopey thug, and like all the Dinobots, is stubbornly resistant to authority... but all of this without the mean streak that defines Slag, or the sullen-ness of Snarl... a guy who, left to his own devices, would be happy not to be kicking skidplates and taking names. So yeah, there's certainly a lot of room to interpret and develop from the G1 templates... but I think the key is to at least start from those templates.

Ultimately, in spite of all of this, I can still accept occasional 'transgressions' and "enjoy IDW for what it is". However, a much bigger problem is often (too often) that IDW is just not very good. So if we're drawing up a list of grievances, uneven quality is the most egregious issue with IDW. To be clear, I don't evaluate IDW's quality on the same scale that I evaluate their G1 appeal. Those are separate metrics... but both are important to me.

zmog