I couldn't stand it when Hot Rodimus Prime and company dumb downed the Dinobots in Season 3. Calling Grimlock a Bozo is no way to get the best out of him.

 

I think Grimlock is street-smart but not book smart.

 

and now neither is Avengers: Earths Mightiest Heroes Hulk since he and Banner fused their minds together. It's why they could have him on the team for almost the entire show.

 

I came into the series through the comics first, which results in me assuming that Grimlock and Swoop are just as smart as the 'main' Transformers like Optimus and MEgatron, although Sludge was still protrayed as 'simple'... Snarl and Slag tended to waver due to different issues in teh comics run... but Swoop and Grimlock being smart is, to me, a statement of fact...
Now if we're talking about the CARTOONS exclusivly... then I think Grimlock is smarter then he's usually given credit for (smart enough to be sarcastic when called in to save Autotbots time after time  but not as smart as his comics self.

 

I know this is a necro and forgie me. But you were wrong on 1 thing. Idw and marvel is connected to g1 they just retconned certain things whicj happen in continuitys to. The majority of the g1 fanbase onsider idw marvel comics dream wave and the cartoon 1 wierd continuity

 

Yes and no.

Firstly, I take issue with your assumption that the "majority" of the G1 fanbase don't recognize that Sunbow/Marvel/IDW are actually all totally different storylines.

I would say that the vast majority of fans really do know this. They frame their conversations about these storylines as different 'realities'. In fact, the word "continuity" is almost always used to differentiate each one of these streams.

I think fans consider these continuities to be related, and they may even use the term "G1 continuity" informally to separate it from some of the non-G1 continuity families. But I have never met anyone before who actually thinks they are all one, same story, just with copious retcons.

I think my post from 2012 already explains this in detail, but let's be clear about what the word "CONTINUITY" actually means.

It indicates a sequence of events, that occur in a particular order. There are some places where events may match up, but for the vast majority, they have not been "retconned"... they are simply not the same stories.

Again, let's also remember what "retcon" actually means. There is no "retroactive continuity" between Marvel and Sunbow, because they were actually concurrent when they were released. They were branched from the very beginning. Marvel and Sunbow are both original G1 continuities, but are still different from each other in significant ways.

Meanwhile, the main IDW 1.0 continuity does NOT follow either the Marvel or Sunbow history, retconned or otherwise. Even the basic building blocks of the usual G1 setting (like the Ark crash-landing on Earth with the Autobots and Decepticons inside) did not occur in the IDW continuity at all. The characters are (mostly) the same, but the story is extremely different, start to finish.

The only exception there would be the IDW Regeneration miniseries, which really is a direct follow-up of the Marvel continuity. But Regeneration is not connected with any of the other IDW continuities.

However... we can still observe how there are very close similarities in the characters, basic setting, and essential world-building of these different versions of the fiction. I would definitely say they are related. They are all in the same family of scenarios... but what makes them different is literally the fact that each one follows a different continuity of events.

zmog

 

I like the idea of the Dinobots being kinda primitive, tribalistic, even barbaric, but intelligent in their own way. However, if I had to choose between them being outright dummies, like in the original cartoon (particularly the third season) or being just as smart as everyone else, then I'd prefer them to be smart.

 

One of the things I hoped out of The Last Knight was to show the Dinobots both ways. They didn't speak in Age of Extinction so that could be interpreted either way but they lean towards more instinctual, less intelligent. I would've begun The Last Knight with a prologue showing the Dinobots as very intelligent (kinda like Bane....just a horrific mixture of crazy strength and intelligence...except they're good guys) but after they're captured by Lockdown he mind wipes them and they're in stasis so long that they just aren't all there. They should've spoke at the beginning of that film. The whole "Me, Grimlock..." speech and everything. At some point they would reconnect with the essence of Primus through Teletran 1 and have their memories restored and would be intelligent again. So...lol kinda like a movie version of Grimlock's New Brain or whatever that G1 episode was called, I'll have to look it up. Then they would truly be a force to be reckoned with.

Overall...if we're talking just the Dinobots in general and not any specific continuity....I think tribal and barbaric are good words for how they should be. I dislike them being outright stupid. As the comment above stated, if I had to choose between them being stupid or smart...then make them smart. They don't have to be graduates of MIT....just not brain damaged morons. I like the idea of them being slow for a reason and then that reason gets resolved and they're better and sharper afterwards. Show both sides of them. And plus, smart Dinobots got to be pretty high up on the list of things Decepticons don't want any part of and that's always fun to watch..

 

I never really saw the Dinobots as exactly "tribal" or outright primitive. According to the core fiction (the original bios) they had modes back on Cybertron that weren't as slow and unwieldy, and probably weren't "dinosaur monsters".

The reason they transform into dinosaurs on Earth (in Marvel) is separate from their Cybertronian history -- although it is a bit messy with the timelines, because this logic relies on Marvel's Savage Land (a holdover from when Transformers was integrated into the 616 Marvel continuity).

My interpretation is that they were a small special unit of hard-cases, who didn't play well with others (or might have been actual criminals otherwise). They're brawlers and brutes and they all have an outright disrespect for authority, but somehow they work well as a team because Grimlock can keep them in line, mostly. I can totally imagine a scenario where the Dinobots were recruited by Grimlock straight out of Autobot brigs.

And they were converted to their "earth modes" together as a team, which is why they follow the dinosaur theme... and they stick together because they don't really fit in with the regular Autobots (who are mostly reluctant warriors, or civilians forced into service by circumstance).

So I don't think they should be primitive so much as just... rough and violent and brazen.

zmog

 

I like Cyberverse's version, intelligent in robot mode but all higher neural computing functions are rerouted to maximize his brute force in dino mode.

So, my answer is yes.

 

Very very good. This is exactly how I feel about them.

In the alternate The Last Knight fan-fiction I'm working on, the Dinobots would be what they were in the unfilmed Age of Extinction scene. The Guardians of the All-Spark that were with it when it crashed on Earth millions of years prior to the first movie. Grimlock chooses his T-Rex form for two reasons. To evade Lockdown until he's repaired (he can put a holographic image of a real T-Rex over himself to appear like a real dinosaur like the pilot in Blackout or the cop "driving" Barricade but his size eventually betrays him) and because he grew to like dinosaurs from being around them while searching for the cube. A specific T-Rex in particular. He keeps the form after it's killed by Lockdown. They don't bother with the holograms in the present for obvious reasons but refuse to adopt other alternate modes. Because they're vicious and stubborn and do what they want but secretly kind of a sentimental bunch..

 

This is a cool idea too!

 

The logic is questionable, but it works. It allows us to have our Cesium Salami and eat it too.  

zmog

 

I've always thought of him as a genius with a speech impediment or possibly a disability that makes other underestimate his intelligence level (something akin to a lisp or dyslexia or being hard of hearing or a combination thereof). And in addition to being a genius, he is a natural leader (which is at least partially being smart about people, an intelligence all its own).

 

It's not too illogical. Basically, his processing power is redirected towards maximizing his fighting prowess rather than executing tactical schemes. I think of it as myself driving in Houston traffic while my son is talking about online fan-canon details regarding the Batman 1989 film. I can guarantee you that I can't hold a conversation until I've resolved the task at hand and probably do sound like a caveman while driving.

 

I don't think it's THAT illogical. He basically pulls a Wolverine. He sacrifices intellect for blind berserker fury. Just more literal than what Wolverine does. I like it..

 

I don't quite see him as being that smart. I mean, smart, competent, crafty, tactical... but I don't see him as a natural leader, which is why he only really is in charge of a band of thugs who otherwise can't follow the chain of command. He's the kind of guy who might get you to work harder, fight harder, last longer... but probably by being uncompromising, abrasive, and verbally abusing you and getting you angry. A drill sergeant type or a jerk dad. That's a skill, of course, but I think it's probably his main people skill. In more sophisticated settings, I doubt he'd be flexible.

My reasons for this are twofold... firstly, his bio highlights his extreme arrogance and contempt for anyone he sees as "weak" as major personality traits. Arrogance is called out as one of his few weaknesses.

Secondly, I dislike the "wolverining" of Grimlock, making him something greater than he should be. Let him be a gruff, unsubtle jerk, who cares about strength and doesn't have time for people's feelings. A guy who has personality flaws.

I see where you're going with that, but what I mean is that it's illogical that a walking, talking, shooting, swordfighting robot warrior would suddenly suddenly become a drooling simpleton when he transforms into a slow-moving dinosaur and his tactical options are reduced to bite / stomp / smash because of all the extra "processing power" required.  

It's a story conceit that justifies the personality shift, but there's no real reason that it would make sense.

Maybe if their cognitive processing is actually suppressed for the sake of reducing damage / pain feedback... like a "berserker" mode?

But it's all really just comic-book logic and rule-of-cool, and that's fine.  

zmog

 

Heh... I suggest that above. But the dino modes aren't exactly that "furious". They're sloooow and tough. It feels like their robot modes would be far more capable and versatile in combat. If there's a real advantage to be had in dino mode, I guess it's... armour?

Again, I guess it's just a rule-of-cool thing.  

zmog

 

I figured he did not HAVE to become a drooling simpleton in dinosaur mode. Like....that's a drawback of him transforming EVERY TIME. He can turn into a dinosaur and remain smart. But he can also at times sacrifice smart and reroute all other power for other things (like thought and reasoning) purely to pack more punch if the need arises. He just has to know damn well what he's aiming himself at before resorting to that. I wouldn't want it to be an every transformation thing.

And I can't help but see Grimlock as a good leader. Especially to his fellow Dinobots. They respect him too much without ever any indication of fear. I feel like he'd be a good Autobot leader overall if the rest of them can adjust to someone not as warm, fuzzy and understanding as Optimus. I certainly don't see him leading through fear. That seems antithetical to Grimlock's whole personality. He doesn't play well with others and hates taking orders but he hates when powerful beings use their power to control those weaker than them. Bullies basically. Which is what makes him respect Optimus. I always thought Grimlock should be a Prime as well. Especially in the movie continuity..

 

Did you bring up Wolverine first? If you did, I apologize. I must not have seen it. Didn't mean to plagiarize you.

I don't think anyone is suggesting their dinosaur modes are "furious" by default. It's just an option to them.

Mostly I have the movie versions in mind (or how they would've ended up being viewed had I made The Last Knight) so I don't picture them being slow and lumbering in this instance. Apologies. That was just a bias based on my narrow POV. I do really REALLY love Grimlock's dinosaur design in the films. I think it's pretty much perfect. It's so sharp and dangerous looking. Those teeth are WICKED. A faster, sleeker Grimlock is pretty rad. I know they weren't in Transformers 4 much but I think they were on the cusp of doing something really cool with them in the next film if they just would have, ya know, done it. I would've had Grimlock be basically the main Transformer character alongside Bumblebee in Prime's absence since he's Nemesis Prime..