I'm sorry friend but you are either completely wrong or have no understanding of the word continuity and how the word is used.

G1 is not and has NEVER been 1 continuity.

In the world of fiction, tv shows comic books, movies and so on, continuity is defined as the semi consistency of the characteristics of persons, objects, places and events seen by the reader or viewer. The term is taken from the mathematical sense of something being smooth and without break. In some forms of media, such as comic books, continuity has also come to mean a set of contiguous events, sometimes said to be "set in the same universe"

The G1 toon and the G1 marvel comics are not set in the same continuity/universe.In one the TF's were created by weird Aliens, in an other they were created by a God of light.

In the G1 toon, Unicron came to Cybertron in the year 2005 and was defeated by Rodimus Prime, in the comics it was closer to 1989 and he was defeated by Powermaster Optimus Prime

Different events, different time periods equals different continuities/universes. You can say they all share some common aliments, but they are not 2 continuity.

The G1 continuity FAMILY is a tertm that was created by fans to describe the different numbers of continuities with the lable of G1.

Much like within your own family, you, parents, grand parents, possible siblings, you are all different persons that are part of 1 family.

The G1 cartoon is but 1 continuity/family member that is part of the larger G1 family.

 

Animated doesn't count because it isn't a G1 continuity.

It is very strongly influenced by G1, in particular the cartoon, but makes it very clear that most of the characters are totally distinct entities from their G1 namesakes, rather than simply the same characters in a slightly different situation.

No.

People tend to vary in their specific definitions of "continuity", "canon", etc... however, the different G1 variations are absolutely, explicitly, literally not the same continuity. It's right there in the word "continuity".

G1 is a complicated thing, since there has never been a single unifying continuity. It was fragmented from it's very inception, and has always been divided in terms of continuity. As AFmultiverse rightly pointed out, the G1 Tech Specs were the first "continuity" of Transformers, and a reasonable case could be made for it being mostly compatible with the Marvel US continuity. Marvel UK was designed to be in-continuity with the Marvel US line, so arguably you might be able to say that these 3 versions can fold in together with minimal conflicts. The G1 Cartoon on the other hand, must be identified as a whole other thing.

The easiest way to think about it is that the common root was the G1 Tech Specs bios by Budiansky. They represent the basic cast of characters and the essential default scenario. In that sense, G1 is less a continuity than it is a base setting... which makes sense, since it was originally supposed to facilitate open children's play with the toys. This makes it rather different than media that derived from a single authoritative core storyline (a source novel, film or TV series).

Also let's remember that G1 was never a "thing" in its own time. It was just simply "Transformers". The whole idea of "G1" never existed until G2 came along (which was itself actually a G1 continuity). Beast Wars stirred the pot by offering a totally new version of Transformers, though it was revealed later in the series to actually be an appendage/historical continuation of the main G1 setting.

Well, the difference is that Hulk and Banner were originally modelled on Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde, one man divided into 2 distinct identities. Having a rage meter that sends Grimlock into a berserk state doesn't necessarily mean that he becomes a new person... just that he loses control and acts irrationally.

I'm not sure how the FOC Dinobots will play out, but so far FOC has modelled most of their versions of characters on the G1 Marvel and Tech Specs, moreso than the cartoon renditions... so there's some reason to expect them to be of normal intelligence.

That doesn't make any sense at all. Grimlock's New Brain is a story from the cartoon continuity. It has NOTHING to do with Grimlock's portrayal in other media (not to mention the fact that the origin and characterization of the Technobots is also different in the comics and Tech Specs). Meanwhile Grimlock in MOST of the other media is of average intelligence and either speaks normally, or speaks in broken english due to a speech impediment. The cartoon version of Grimlock is influential, but it is a categorical minority.

Soooo... you actually don't even read what other people say, is that what you're saying?

It's already been clearly established in this thread that Grimlock speaks normally in other G1 media, and was later given the broken english in Dreamwave as a speech impediment which belied a normal intelligence. But it sounds like you're completely ignoring all of that for your own purposes. So why should we bother taking anything you say seriously?  

Incidentally the Tech Spec ratings of their intelligence, compiled by the man who created them, are as follows, on a scale of 10:
Grimlock = 7
Swoop = 6
Snarl = 6
Slag = 4
Sludge = 3

The Dinobots are not a brain trust. You are correct in that sense. They are brutes. But in the majority of G1 continuities, they are not the imbeciles portrayed in the G1 Cartoon. Numerically speaking, their team average is 5 Intelligence, so pretty normal (though more than half the team is above average).

There are at least 3 separate G1 continuities, in fact. But I digress. They are not "continuity errors" (I suspect you don't actually understand what that term means), they are completely and deliberately differentiated continuities unto themselves. Remember that the G1 Cartoon, despite being the most widely known version of the fiction, is actually the deviant version. It is the one that departs most from the original bible.

If you want to talk continuity and story errors, you could probably have a field day with the G1 Cartoon alone, due to all the internal inconsistencies. However the differences the Cartoon shares with the other media is of another order, no more "in-continuity" with each other than the Avengers movie is with mainstream Marvel "616" Avengers comics.

Again, you seem to be adhering exclusively to TV shows, and ignoring the other sources of media.

It's worth pointing out that having a "G1 continuity family" (which I sort of agree with) is not the same thing as G1 having just one continuity. In fact, quite the opposite. However I do agree that RID is probably the first wholly separate "new" Transformers continuity that isn't based on the G1 Budiansky precedent.

You keep saying that, but you're very much mistaken I'm afraid. Despite the fact that some of them do overlap or diverge at certain key points, the various versions of G1 are BY DEFINITION different continuities. There is no room for you to be correct here. At best, you are just misusing the definitions... at worst, you are being wilfully ignorant. I haven't decided which yet.

Exaaaaaaactly.

In fact I totally agree with your post, and I apologize for mostly just repeating most of what you've already said. But I think it bears repeating for the benefit of those who would listen.  

zmog

 

I know fully well what it means and G1 is in fact one continuity. It's odd that you don't know this when you even said so your self while explaining what continuity means.

Right there in bold, italic, underline, and quotes. Set in the same universe. That pretty much sums up all of G1, set in the same universe.

Ideally a single continuity would be smooth and without break however that does not always happen. This is called a continuity error, when something that is suppose to be taking place in the same continuity is contradicting something that has already happened.

That being said, the G1 Cartoon Dinobots which were originally built on Earth and the WW Dynobots who already existed on Cybertron are the same group of characters. It's not a different continuity it's just a really obvious continuity error sense War Within is a G1 Prequel.

Anything that was actually a different continuity would not even be considered as part of G1 in any form what so ever.

Again, that is a continuity error, it does not mean a different continuity. Both feature the same characters in the same continuity. It's just "The G1 Continuity" there aren't multiples of it. You're free to think of it that way if that gives you less of a head ache. I like to think of Armada, Energon, and Cybertron as three separate continuities because they contradict each other but officially they're all one continuity known as the Unicron Trilogy.

Well now you're contradicting yourself. Different events don't always = different continuities as I said before that would mean that there are at least 3 different cartoon continuities.

There first appearance of the Constructicons in the cartoon it was stated that they were built on Earth.

Later in the series it was shown that they already existed on Cybertron and were simply reprogrammed as Decepticons by Megatron.

Even further in the series it's shown that the Constructicons not only already existed on Cybertron but were also already Decepticons long before Megatron even existed. They built Megatron.

Again by your reasoning this means 3 different continuities. Armada is even worse. There are episodes where right in the middle of the same episode the continuity changes. Tidal Wave is introduced as a great Decepticon leader however two seconds later it's pretty obvious he couldn't lead his way out of a paper bag. It's called a Continuity Error.

Your analogy is wrong. They're all the same continuity BECAUSE they all have the G1 label. It's like a family name. You're basically arguing that Cartoons and comics are entirely separate families that aren't related to each other at all.

The term Continuity Family is more like an analogy in itself to explain how stories with conflicting information can still be part of the same continuity. Even though I still don't believe such a thing even exists people use Continuity family when talking about the Aligned Continuity.

When it applies to G1 the differences in continuity are because the new story line was more of an after thought than part of a planed story line. With the supposed Aligned Continuity everything was suppose to be planned from the beginning which should mean less contradictions but instead there's more contradictions which leads me to believe they decided not to do an Aligned Continuity.

 

no prob "we seem to think alike"

 

I prefer them to be extremely intelligent and tactical warriors.

 

apparently you do not fully understand because you continue to state they are one continuity.The are part of 1 over all continuity family, but are different continuities.

The are not set in the same universe.Marvel even has 2 different universe numbers for their US and UK TF universes

Transformers G1 Marvel UK takes place in Universe number-120185
Earth-120185 - Transformers Wiki
Transformers G1 Marvel US takes place in Universe number-91274
Earth-91274 - Transformers Wiki

And I believe you already know Marvels mainstream universe is numbered 616.The cartoon and the comics are not in a single continuity.They were never interned to be so and still arent to this day.Different universes,different earths,,different dimensions all equal different continuities.

Its no different then what we have seen in Star Trek with parallel universes like the mirror universe.Or the reboots we have seen in the Batman or Spiderman films.Or how different the continuities are between Batman comics and cartoons or films.

The War Within is a G1 prequel to the ongoing G1 comic book universe that Dreamwave comics was publishing at the time.It had no connection to the G1 cartoon other then also being part of the g1 family.But its like a paralleled universe.

Even the UT has more then 1 continuity to its family.

It has the cartoon continuity
and the comic book continuity

I'm not contracting myself, and I'm sure your trying to point to the apparent origin contradiction of the Constructicons which is not as solid as most like to think.But to get around that, yes there are times that mistakes happen and that stories are contradicted within a single continuity.But thats not what we are talking about here.

We are talking about completely different stories that were never intended to be connected continuity-wise to the cartoon series. Here are some examples,

G1 cartoon, Galvatron is created in the year 2005 and is not much of a leader, in my opinion.
G1 UK, Galvatron is created in 2006, and he travels back in time to 87 and is the most powerfull decepticon ever, not even the combined armies of the bots and cons of both present sand future can stop him.
G1 US, Galvatron is created in 2005, and by 2009 has all but defeated the autobot/human army, just as he is about to gain final victory, Unicron, from the past asnd different universe pulls him trew time and space back to 1988.

Ill stop right there because I did not want to get into this but I'll make it short.

Built can have a number of definitions
The team we first see in season 1 had 6 members
The team that created Megatron were numbered at 8

And even if you want to take that as a mistake within a single continuity It still differes from the origin story they had in the g1 comic, in which they were built by Shockwave using the creation matrix program he stole from Optimus.

Yes, there are continuity errors with the cartoon, but the comics, novels, tech specs are all intended to be separate continuities.

No, I'm stating they are all individual members of the same family.My analogy is on point.They are all part of the same family because they are all rooted/based on the G1 toyline...as you said they all have the G1 label.

But the family has different continuities within itself.

Heres a listing of just about all the different continuities within the G1 family.
Generation 1 continuity family - Transformers Wiki

 

I was the 69th person to vote smart. Just thought I'd share that.

 

You've demonstrated that you don't actually know what "continuity" means, actually... even in the general sense.

Let's look at that quote again for a second, and see if you're missing something important...

"Contiguous". Do you know what that means?

Secondly, "set in the same universe" rather clearly does NOT apply to the different incarnations of G1. There are huge content and chronological discrepancies between the various G1 continuities. They do NOT occupy the same time frame, do NOT deal with the same characters or events, and the universes do not operate along the same rules. Events that happen in one "universe" happen differently (or not at all) in another.

In short, they are not "in continuity" with each other. They are not contiguous. And they cannot be the same universe (even if they are in many ways similar).

These are not "errors"... these are purposeful differences that were written deliberately into the fictions. Or at least, written by creators who are operating on the model of writing self-contained universes based on the G1 paradigm. Bob Budiansky didn't make a "mistake" when he made the Dinobots intelligent. It's not an "error". If anything, it's the way they were supposed to be, except the cartoon writers were crafting their own self-contained continuity separate from what Budiansky was doing in the comics.

That would actually be the definition of a different continuity in comics, in which the same group of characters has a totally different origin and do different things.

G1 is a basic setting and group of characters. However, there are different VERSIONS of these characters, with their own distinct elements and histories in each G1 continuity. So the G1 Cartoon Dinobots are NOT exactly the same as the WW Dynobots or the IDW Dynabots, or the Marvel Dinobots (who were smart, were originally from Cybertron, and fought Shockwave thousands of years before the Ark crew woke up. Different continuity dude.

In fact the G1 original Tech Specs (again, written by the creator of the characters) specified that their dinosaur modes were not the Dinobots' original forms, and that Snarl, for example, was homesick for Cybertron. So again... different continuities, different versions of the characters. Also, I should point out that the G1 cartoon is the one that gets it "wrong". Following your logic, if everything is limited to one continuity, the only sensible answer would be that the G1 cartoon must be the error, not everything else.  

Except that it's not like that. G1 was a term that was RETROACTIVELY applied to the original Transformers fictions, which were never in proper continuity with each other. Even today, MOST fans acknowledge that there is a clear delineated division between Cartoon and Marvel G1 continuities. I'm amazed that you can't grasp this.

Saying that over and over again doesn't make it true. You haven't productively addressed any of the main points against your arguments. You are not applying reason to this discussion, only repetition.

The Unicron trilogy also has some issues, since Cybertron was appended to Armada/Energon after the fact. It isn't really the same continuity. Of course this raises further issues, such as the differences between Japanese and American continuities, and where things like Headmasters, Victory, Masterforce, etc.. all fit in. The easy answer is that they DON'T. They are not all in continuity with the US G1 series... or even necessarily with each other.

There's no question that the Marvel Comics and G1 Cartoon and IDW G1 series all have more in common with each other than they do with Armada or RID or Prime. That is why they belong to a family of continuities. They are all separate from each other, but are all derived from the same basic origin... that in retrospect, has been designated "G1".

Yes, because all of those contradictions took place within the same continuity, they can be looked at as errors... or loopholes or script anomalies. However, they were all meant to take place in the same continuity. Marvel US, Marvel UK, Dreamwave and IDW were NOT. They are all their own separate continuities, albeit linked by the common "G1" origin/setting.

They are playing with the same building blocks, but each series has built a different universe with them.

You're the one who is arguing a very limited view, arbitrarily dictating that continuities can ONLY be TOTALLY DIFFERENT or exactly the same. For some reason you can't grasp that continuities can have the same basic elements but totally different histories and series of events. In fact, these differences are what make them different continuities... by definition.

But nobody ever said that very similar continuities couldn't still be separate from each other. Except you I guess, but you're clearly not making sense.

zmog

 

That statement is a contradiction. How can they be both the same and different continuities at the same time? You're not making any sense.

If it's a different continuity from G1 then it is not G1. G1 is one continuity.

Except that all that stuff is actually different. It's not all trying be crammed into a single continuity. G1 is a continuity, it's not G1 cartoon, G1 comic and whatever else, it's just the G1 continuity. It's all the same thing.

Again you're contradicting yourself. You're trying to argue that it's a different continuity while at the same time saying that it's not.

"It had no connection to the G1 cartoon other then also being part of the G1 family." is a contradicting sentence that make no sense what so ever. It either is G1 or it isn't, it's not both.

They're both the same continuity. Technically it does have more than one continuity though because Galaxy Force, the Japanese series Cybertron was dubed from, was never meant to be part of the same continuity with Micron/Armada and Super Link/Energon. Hasbro kinda forced it in for the American version so Galaxy Force/Cybertron is really the only series that is both the same continuity and an entirely different continuity.

It sure sounds like it because you're claiming any inconsistency in a story automatically means a new continuity. As much as I'd like to think that way officially that's not accurate.

Yet the stories feature the same characters with the same designs and the same personalities. If everything is G1 then it's not a different continuity from G1.

True but there's only one definition that makes any sense in that context and to reprogram them is not one of the definitions.

This is simply an animation error. There's also an episode where the entire line up of Decepticons is just a bunch of clones of Starscream and Reflector. There's also the episode when they first built the space bridge and sent the one with the lens threw but when he came out the other side, no lens, that one was still on Earth.

And the different origin in the comic is no more a different continuity than the different origins in the cartoon.

I wasn't even aware of that in the comic, seriously how many different origins do the G1 Constructicons have?

No they're not, they're all intended to be part of the same continuity, that continuity is Generation One.

Any continuity that is actually intended to be a different continuity is not intended to have any connection at all to anything that is connected to G1.

Exactly my point.

And now you're not making sense again.

I know perfectly well what it means. What you're not getting is that by your definition of continuity that you have to count every continuity error within the cartoon as a completely new continuity.

You're counting things as new continuities that are actually the same universe because of continuity errors.

G1 Cartoon Dinobots were built on Earth, WW Dynobots already existed on Cybertron. This is not a case of two different continuities because WW is a G1 prequel hence they are the same characters in the same universe, hence this is a continuity error not an entirely new continuity. If it were an entirely new continuity then War Within is not a G1 prequel at all and has no connection to G1 cartoon, comics or otherwise.

It's as simple as that. Same continuity as G1 make this an error. Different continuity means it is not even a G1 Prequel. It is in fact a G1 prequel so it is in fact a continuity error because they both in fact exist in the same continuity.

Saying that it is a G1 Prequel but is an entirely different continuity is a contradiction because being a G1 Prequel makes it the same continuity. It can't be a G1 Prequel if it's set in a different continuity, then it wouldn't be a prequel.

Continuity errors usually occur because of different writers working on the same story and either not consulting with each other or one writer not even paying attention to what's already happened in another episode. That's actually why there are so many in G1 because cartoons in the 80's were usually self contained stories not ongoing plots like we have today. I assume the same is true for comics.

They are in fact errors because writers for G1 or anything at that time weren't really writing for an ongoing plot, they were writing for self contained stories that all feature the same characters which makes them the same continuity.

OK then by your reasoning the Constructicons who Megatron claimed were built on Earth, the Constructicons who Megatron reprogramed back on Cybertron, and the Constructicons who built Megatron are all from different continuities too.

Oh and lets not forget the two different cartoon continuities, the one where Vector Sigma is required to build new Transformers and the one where anyone can built new Transformers out of junk lying around on Earth.

Also the different Armada continuity where Tidal Wave is a great military leader and Thrust is actually a great strategists.

Oh and the 3 different Armada Sideways. One who works for Unicron, one who is actually a good guy and cares about humans, and one who is just Unicron's puppet.

Oh and that means Energon and Cybertron are actually different continuities too.

I wish but sorry no, it doesn't work that way.

I was under the impression that the WW Dynobots where the first versions of them that had existed on Cybertron and being a prequel that came after the cartoon that would make it the error. However I'm admittedly not too familiar with the comics so if their existing on Cybertron was the first origin for them the cartoon would indeed be the error.

Maybe because you're not making any damn sense. Try making an argument that doesn't contradict itself then I'll get it. This whole it's G1 but it's also not G1 bull crap just doesn't fly. It's one or the other, not both, pick one.

This coming from someone who spammed my PM box with a one word message that just said "Seriously?" and the subject title was also "Seriously?" That doesn't make any point what so ever, that's just spam. Please don't bother messaging me if you don't actually have anything to say.

The easy answer is not always the right answer.

They've been designated G1 because they are all part of the same G1 continuity.

For someone who claims I'm not using any logic where the hell is your logic?

You're claiming that there are different continuities yet at the same time acknowledging that they're all part of G1.

You're logic is so flawed you don't even realize that you're contradicting yourself. You're both arguing with me and agreeing with me at the same time. It's really rather annoying. I should just drop out of this argument sense you can just argue with yourself. I don't even have to do anything.

No, that's what you are arguing. You are claiming that there are seperate continuties where there are none because they are totally different. I'm arguing that they are simply continuity errors that make them different because they're all meant to exist in the same universe.

You are arbitrarily dictating what is or isn't a different continuity based on no actual facts.

Fact is that G1 is a single continuity with a lot of conflicting stories. These are simply continuity errors and not entire new universes. If you want to consider them new universes then by your logic all continuity errors must automatically be considered entirely new continuities.

It's not a new continuity just because it's in error otherwise there are like 42 different Armada continuities... and I think I underestimated that number. I really don't want to count how many errors are in that POS series.

And for some reason you can't grasp what a continuity error is. When something is meant to be the same continuity but doesn't quite fit in that continuity story line, that is a continuity error, not a different continuity.

Hence everything that is meant to be part of the G1 continuity is all the same continuity. There are not multiple G1 continuities, there are just multiple continuity errors within G1.

I'm making perfect sense.

G1 continuity is G1 continuity. That's pretty self explanatory. It makes perfect sense. I see something that says G1 and think it's part of G1.

You are not making any sense.

G1 continuity is not G1 continuity. What the hell are you saying? It's contradicting. You see something that says G1 and think it must be something else entirely.

It's like I'm arguing that lions, tigers, cheetahs, and jaguars are all felines and you're trying to argue that no they're only called felines because they're not felines at all.

 

GD..anyway i perfer grims to be like the comic, intelligent but speech pattern broken so at first one would think he just some dumb brut...kinda give him a depth in character..i like the fact both cons and bots alike under estimated him and he showed them up..

 

I hate the cartoon depiction of Grimlock.... its the G1 comic version for me all the way, conceited and egotistical.

 

I think Grimlock would be best if he was smart in terms of strategy & battle tactics, dumb in vocabulary and the egotist we all know him to be.

 

Me Grimlock no bozo, me king!

I dunno I always remember Grimmy from the cartoon/movie, don't remember him so much from the comics but that is most likely due to me being under 10 when I read them so simple Grimmy for me.

 

Dumb. Never been a Grimlock or Dinobots fan. If people like the guy, that's good for them. Me, always liked that they weren't regular characters in any series.

 

G1 is a family that contains different continuities,Lets say your name is Tom Brown.You are 1 person named Brown.
let us also say you have 2 brothers,1 sister.You are now 1 member of the Brown family that seems to be numbered at lest 4 Browns.

Think of the G1 as a tree in which each branch is a different continuity.They are different members of the same family.Or see it as different branches of the same tree.

Its no different then how Batman TAS cartoons are different then The Batman cartoon series or the Batman Brave and the bold series is different from Batman comics.The toons are part of different continuities from each other and the books.The Unicron Trilogy in the comics were a different continuity from that of the tv show.One of the biggest differences was that the minicons were able to speak like everyone else.

There is a big difference between a mistake/error and a completely different telling/story in a series of events that were intended to take place in a different continuity.

You are wrong on a few points there.

Same characters by name in most cases....but not all. [tv Skyfire comic Jetfire]

Same personalities in some cases but again not all [tv Shockwave loyal soldier, in the Comics Shockwave was like an evil Spock that beat Megatron and took over the cons more then once.

Same designs, again in most cases but not all. characters were different colors in more cases then I can remember, just look at Rumble and Frenzy, , and in some they used different character models.Galvatron,Broadside are 2 of the most pronounced different designs used.

thats actually not true.The dialog in the episode was not very defined.Built new bodies also fits within the same context.

maybe it was ,maybe the animators just used the body types like generic seekers with no intention of them being the same characters

Pretty much a different one with each different continuity.Even Omega Supreem had a different origin in the Marvel comics.In the comics he was built on Earth around the year 1986

the comics have always been a different continuity from the shows.Even the UK comics are a different continuity then the US comic.

Errors are 1 thing, completely different tellings/retelling and or reboots are different continuities.The War within and its universe was an entirely new and separate continuity from the G1 cartoon.Not only were the Dinobots existing on Cybertron, so were the Airelbots,Stunticons.

In that Universe Scourge and Cyclonus had no connection to dead decepticons.Optimus Prime was never Orion Pax.He was given the matrix by the council of elders not Alpha Trion.The WW was a prequil to Dreamwaves TF G1 universe, not marvels or that of the cartoon.IDW now has 2 different G1 continuities they are telling stories for.

Look to IDW's G1 comic, you can plainly see how its a retelling.For example, Galvatron and Goldbug are different characters with no connections to Megatron and Bumblebee

Thats a misconception on the part of the fans.It was never said that Vector Sigma was REQUIRED to create all new tf life, it was only stated that Megatron had no other way of creating new tf life.

Both the toy tech specs and the original Marvel comics had them on Cybertron.Both came before the cartoon.

 

Uh, because it makes sense to group related continuities together as a broad category, even if their events and timelines don't actually coexist in any one context? Makes sense to me.

No. G1 was never one continuity. You keep saying that, but you've provided no logic or evidence to support yourself.

NOW, we look back on the old original Transformers series and retroactively refer to them as "G1" because of their collective origin and similarities. We also extend that to the new comics series which are separate continuities but who work with the same original material.

You don't know what you're talking about, sadly.

No, it's not... because being in the same "family" of similar continuities is not the same as being ONE continuity. Similar and related does not equal being one and the same.

Sigh... no, it's just another example of branched or related continuities. The US version of the Unicron Trilogy has a forced link, so the continuity is... definitely imperfect. In G1, this link was never even forced. There was never any question that the television show and the comic books took place in totally different universes, albeit with the same basic ideas and characters. Ever since then, there have been series that branch out of, or break away from, the other continuities, creating a muddy field of both independent and interdependent "realities" (especially when one factors in the Japanese series).

One rather telling example would be the new IDW Transformers Regeneration series. It seeks to conclude the original Marvel TF continuity. This is entirely separate from events depicted in the cartoons or in the current IDW G1 comics. They are not the same universe.

Furthermore, Regeneration ignores the Marvel G2 continuity. It continues directly from the pre-G2 Marvel TF comics. Therefore one continuity branches into two, ostensibly parallel chronologies... G2 (which has always been part of the G1 family, despite its name) and Regeneration, where events take place very differently.

Actually, OFFICIALLY, there are multiple G1 continuities. And within each one, there are probably errors, which do not necessarily constitute a new continuity. You seem to be very confused about the difference between a separate and deliberate fictional setting, and simple plot errors.

And yet, in one continuity, the Dinobots are built on Cybertron, and later fight Shockwave on Earth in a primitive land, while in another, the Dinobots are conceived and built on Earth by Wheeljack, and Shockwave remains on Cybertron.

These are not "continuity errors"... these are stories written expressly to take place in different realities/universes/continuities.

In one continuity, Megatron tricks Prime into killing himself after making a pact over the outcome of a virtual reality duel, then goes insane, defeats Predaking and disappears in a Space Bridge accident, to be succeeded shortly after by Shockwave and then Ratbat as Decepticon leaders.

In another continuity, Megatron and Prime fight a final battle in Autobot City where a bunch of Bots die, after which Prime dies of his wounds and Megatron becomes Galvatron.

These are DIFFERENT CONTINUITIES. These events are not shared. It is not the characters that make a separate continuity... it is the actual continuous, linking unfolding of events that makes a different continuity. The events and timeline are the important part.

It's clear that you are not aware of many things relating to the G1 comics. You keep insisting on one thing, but you don't even have all the facts. Amazing.

And as for Constructicon origins... in the Cartoon Continuity, they have several (due to errors or poor series management). In the Marvel Continuity, they just have ONE origin. The Marvel continuity was far from perfect, but it didn't screw things up nearly as often as the cartoon did. Way more consistent.

No. You count errors within the continuity as errors. You count purposefully different continuities as new continuities. There is a difference. In the case of Transformers, often the series itself determines continuity. The Cartoon is separate. Marvel is separate. IDW is separate. They are just different takes on the same basic group of characters... but in order for them to be considered a single continuity, all the different events and chronology would have to all fit together into a single, interlocking stream. This was never the intention, quite obviously.

You really don't understand this stuff at all.

War Within was a prequel ONLY to Dreamwave's own G1 continuity... which is not the same as the Marvel or Cartoon continuities. There is not just one stream. These writers didn't make "mistakes". Simon Furman didn't just "forget" that the Dinos in the old cartoon were built on Earth, and Optimus' original name was Orion Pax. He created his OWN VERSION, where the Dinobots were native Cybertronians and Optimus started as an archivist named "Optronix" and Jetfire had already joined the Autobots before the Ark even left Cybertron. These are not errors. These are deliberate alternate versions of the basic G1 setting. WW/Dreamwave is a new, separate, G1-based continuity.

You assume, eh?

So in other words, you're talking out of your ass. You know ABSOLUTELY NOTHING about the G1 comics, but are judging based on what you think you know about the cartoon. You are a towering inferno of ignorance at this point, my friend.

Actually the Marvel comics were pretty consistent. Bob Budiansky practically invented Transformers, and created all the characters. Then he went on to write the first 55 issues of Transformers, with the exception of 8 issues, though he served as editor for the first 4 of those. 2 more were filler issues reprinted from the UK run, that Marvel has acknowledged constituted a separate continuity. 1 was another filler, a comic-book adaptation of a Season 3 episode that is out of continuity with the rest of the series (except for the Marvel UK version, which contextualizes it as a tall tale retold by Wreck-Gar to mislead his captors).

So no... they weren't self-contained stories. They were written as one ongoing plot.

God, I almost feel bad for yelling at you now. You really know so very little about all of this, it's kind of unfair to you. Maybe if you actually read the comics, you would start to understand just how distinct they are.

Hey, nobody ever said that the Cartoon continuity wasn't a huge clustercuss. It's widely considered to be the most error-ridden, inconsistent and problematic of all G1 continuities. It just so happens that it's also the one most people are familiar with. But know this... just because you know your G1 cartoon, doesn't mean you know all about G1... because that's just the tip of the iceberg.

Well, they sort of ARE different continuities. Hasbro tried to stick them together for the US market, but they don't actually belong together. In that sense, you might even say that Cybertron and Galaxy Force are different continuities, despite being pretty much the same show... considering Nitro Convoy and Override don't even have the same GENDER.  

Also, their low intelligence levels would also be an "error" in that case. But that's not what I'm really saying.

When I was a kid, reading all the Tech Spec bios and reading the comics, I often looked at the cartoon and just shook my head and said "They're getting it all wrong!".

Now that I've grown up, I understand that it's not really a question of right and wrong (though I still prefer the original sources)... these aren't mistakes. They are totally different interpretations of the same underlying fictional concept. Basically the cartoons and the comics started with the same group of characters and situation and each took them their own way... and THAT is what creates 2 separate continuities.

I never said they weren't G1. I just said that "G1" is not one continuity. It is an umbrella term to describe a divided family of continuities all based on the original Transformers toys. They started from the same source, but they were divided right from the very beginning... even before things like Beast Wars and RID came along and further complicated the issue.

Woo... wow, you are touchy. Well, you could have actually just replied to that message, silly. That's what PM's are for. Actually, I just wanted to check and see if I was on your ignore list or something, because you hadn't responded to any of the points I had raised at that stage. I mean, what would be the point of composing my thoughts if I'm talking to a wall anyway, right?  

Exactly. Sometimes it's the complicated answer, something you don't seem to be accepting.

It's all there, if you've been paying attention.

Yup. It's not actually a difficult concept. 99% of fans understand this simple idea.

  I'm just pointing out the ways in which you might have some things right, even while overall, you still don't get it. The issue is not as black and white as you think. You occasionally say something that makes sense. I'm just giving you credit for it when you do. It's called positive reinforcement.

Except that they never were meant to exist in the same universe. If you actually knew anything about the comics, you might get that. It's like saying that Sam Raimi's 2002 Spider-Man is supposed to be in the same universe as the new 2012 Spider-Man, which is also supposed to be the same universe as Marvels' Ultimate Spider-Man comics and Marvel's traditional 616 Spider-Man comics. They have similar characters and settings, but very different timelines of events. They are not meant to co-exist in one timeline or reality. These are not continuity errors. They are done this way on purpose.

I know what an error is. You can't seem to accept that some things are separated into distinct realities on purpose, in order to allow for different continuities.

That is amazingly clueless. I'm feeling bad for you again.

A fictional continuity is not a genetic family of animals, so that's a very awkward metaphor that doesn't really help your case at all.

But if you wanted to carry that metaphor further, it's more like you're arguing that two geographically isolated species with a common ancestor, who have each evolved along totally separate paths into new species, are nonetheless the same animal and have exactly the same history (or "continuity", which is what that word pretty much means, in simple terms). Or in other words, you are arguing that a human and a chimpanzee are exactly the same thing, and that millions of years of parallel divergent evolution is only a series of "errors".

Like I said, it's a bad metaphor.  

zmog

 

The G1 Hand.

I see the basic G1 original ideas, which I suppose is the toy box tech specs, as the palm of The G1 Hand. Then the US G1 TF Marvel Comics are one finger growing off that palm, the UK G1 TF Marvel comics another finger, the G1 Cartoon another, IDW another, and Dreamwave, and so on. The G1 Hand has many fingers, but ultimately they all originated from the G1 Palm. And with the Regenerations comic the Marvel comics finger(s) has/have a fingernail that's split into two, where one half of it becomes the G2 comic and the other half is Regenerations. The G1 cartoon finger is kinda deformed and freaky though as it tries to work out where to place the Japanese G1 cartoons.  
The G1 Hand has many fingers. They're all G1 fingers, but they're all not the same.

It's like this:
If someone had a pair of male and female G1 Animals and they then took one pair of them to a really cold country and set them free to breed and evolve and they then took another pair to a really hot country to do the same. After many generations (heh) the hot land and the cold land G1 Animals would likely be different in some ways. They're still G1 Animals, and their origin is still what they were before they got taken away to other countries, but now they're different, from each other and from the orginal they were 'based' on. Maybe not by much, but they're still different. They're still all recognisably G1 Animals, but now one is the G1 Hot Animal and one is the G1 Cold Animal. Different, but the same family.

*waffle*  

 

The way you're arguing it's more like they're entirely different family trees.

Same characters by design too... except in the case of Skyfire/Jetfire... sort of... he had a different head in the cartoon and I believe his Autobot insignia was in a different place, but they're both based off the same toy mold.

Also Ironhide and Ratchet in the comics looked more like their toys than in the cartoon. Or at least in one comic they did, came with one of the G1 Optimus reissues, I believe for the 20th or 25th anniversary. My brother has it because I already had the first reissue but his has the Autobot insignia painted on and mine came with stickers. His also has a display stand that mind didn't come with.

I should probably rephrase that. What I meant by the same designs is that they're based on the same toys not that they have the same art style. Like Megatron in the comics had a black helmet while in the cartoon it's white/gray but they're both the same design because they're based off the same toy.

Nope because that doesn't make sense in that context. Why would they need to build new bodies rather than just scan Earth vehicles like everyone else did? Besides if they built new bodies it would be "rebuild" them not just "build" them.

I've never seen the WW Airelbots or Stunticons. I think I've seen designs for WW Technobots and Predacons though. I'm not sure if they were from War Within but it was like Razor Claw as a drill machine rather than a lion so I think it was War Within.

Nope, watch the episode again. It was in fact stated that Vector Sigma was required. Optimus and Alpha Trion built the Aerialbots in the same two parter. That was their entire reason for going to find Vector Sigma was so they could build more troops despite the fact that it was shown earlier in the series that they had other ways of doing it without Vector Sigma.

 

Then you misunderstood.

Take a look at any G1 character entry over at TF wiki.

You'll see that the fictional histories of each characters are separated into different continuity sections even if they are part of 1 family.
Bumblebee (G1 - Transformers Wiki)

Thats not correct.

They weren't able to use the toy mold for the character design due to the likeness being owned by Bandi in the Japanese markets, so a completely new character design was made for the cartoon.The comic used basically the same design, but used the name Jetfire while the toon used Skyfire.

yes, in the first few issues.

that wouldn't help your argument because there are still some characters with radical different designs that cant be chalked up to are styles.

See thats just it, no one scanned new Earth modes in G1............Teletran 1 did that for them.And the Decepticons did not have a similar computer to do that.

And building new bodies is not the same as rebuilding on old ones.So it does fit given the context used.

Heres a pic of WW Motermaster


and I do recall the Protectabots ,Technobots and Predacons were all in the War Within series.

I dont need to watch it again, but you do.
Generation 1 - 56 - The Key to Vector Sigma (Part 1) 1/2 HD - YouTube
skip to time o5;56

here is the dialog and set up.

Ratchet and Optimus watching teletran 1's report on rumble steeling a car.

Dialog:
Ratchet :why is Megatron after wheels???
Optimus: thats what I'd like to know, theres no way here on Earth to give therm cybernetic personalities like we have

The Dinobots personalities are not LIKE those of the lother autobots, they are far more primitive.

 

You know, you could have just used the metaphor of a tree with it's many branches, and spared me the nightmares of inbred physical deformities. Man, the G1 family has some serious problems if their hands are shaped according to their twisted continuities.  

zmog