Get called out!

Discussion in 'Transformers Movie Discussion' started by Hotshotprime43, Jun 18, 2012.

  1. Hotshotprime43

    Hotshotprime43 Well-Known Member

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  2. Aernaroth

    Aernaroth <b><font color=blue>I voted for Super_Megatron and Veteran

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    Look, this is an extremely well-articulated opinion regarding skids and mudflap, but it doesn't really dismiss the claims others have made, or anything beyond really one instance from the movie. This man's opinion cannot be applied to his entire race, nor can it dismiss the offense others have taken to how the twins were portrayed. You can't say "see, this one guy didn't think it was offensive (and he's black), so that makes it okay!", as things as complex as racism and stereotyping just don't work that way. Him not being offended doesn't take away the right for other people to be offended.

    As to his argument, he asserts the twins are based on a redneck stereotype, as opposed to an african-american one. Now, that really wouldn't be a good thing either (as stereotyping reinforces negative attitudes and you can see in that film how it comes at the expense of actual characterization), but we'll set that aside for now. That would carry some weight, given their names, but their accents don't fit such a stereotype, especially given how blatant many others were. He also dismisses the gold tooth and robo fade, but they're pretty obvious in the design, as are other aspects commonly associated with the stereotype such as large ears and big lips. The way they act is disturbingly similar to tropes seen in things like old minstrel shows, and that's what really made me feel animosity towards the characters.

    He also asserts that Transformers cannot be based on stereotypes, since they are giant robots, using Prime as an example. But Cullen has openly stated, time and time again, that his brother (a marine) was used as the basis for the character, combined with John Wayne. Peter Lorre has been stated to be the inspiration for Cosmos in G1, Scott McNeil has discussed the stereotypes he drew from for his work on the Unicron Trilogy, and the moviebots are no exception (hell, if anything, they draw more heavily from broad stereotypes than the G1 characters).

    So yeah, he has an opinion, and he makes his case well, but I don't think this dismisses what others have been saying. Do I think the twins are a racist portrayal? Maybe not, probably not intentionally, but they're definitely distasteful, and I can definitely see why other people would be offended by them.
     
    Last edited: Jun 18, 2012
  3. Optimus1116

    Optimus1116 Autobot

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    I can't really tell if Bay made them racist. The only black characters were Jazz and the Twins. Jazz died right away, and the twins were kinda ******ed stereotypes... I guess it's opinion based, but you can't really prove anything...
     
  4. FeelingLuckyPnk

    FeelingLuckyPnk Decepticon Punks!

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    In summary: people are a bunch of morons who either get offended at the slightest hint of a stereotype or they try to be (too much) politically correct because OMG RACISM!
     
  5. Bluebe6

    Bluebe6 Banned

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    Twins ain't no black folk.
     
  6. SPLIT LIP

    SPLIT LIP AKA Beve Stuscemi

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    Michael Bay did not make the twins act that way. Their voice actors came up with the faux-gangster personas.
     
  7. GreednGluttony

    GreednGluttony grumpy smurf

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    i honestly thought better of tom kenny :( 
     
  8. Aernaroth

    Aernaroth <b><font color=blue>I voted for Super_Megatron and Veteran

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    I don't think the portrayal of the twins can be laid solely at the feet of the writers, or the voice actors, or Bay, although as Bay had final say, I guess he should have known better and thought "yeah, this is going to piss some people off." I also don't think it was intentional, in that they set out to offend people with these characters (and I don't think they are racist people), but I think they probably should have been more aware during their work or while seeing the final product, and if anything, it shows how pervasive and insidious these stereotypes are in north american media.

    Actually, that's not what I was saying at all, but good try? I guess?
     
    Last edited: Jun 18, 2012
  9. CelticMutt

    CelticMutt Herald of Thundercracker

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    Wait. wait wait wait. Seaspray was inspired by Peter Lorre? How? Where? Huh? What?
     
  10. Aernaroth

    Aernaroth <b><font color=blue>I voted for Super_Megatron and Veteran

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    Cosmos. Not Seaspray. Cosmos. I don't know why I wrote Seaspray.
     
  11. CelticMutt

    CelticMutt Herald of Thundercracker

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    Ok, that I can see.
     
  12. Batman

    Batman The Dark Knight TFW2005 Supporter

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  13. cappeca

    cappeca wtf is this?

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    [​IMG]
     
  14. Hotshotprime43

    Hotshotprime43 Well-Known Member

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  15. Aernaroth

    Aernaroth <b><font color=blue>I voted for Super_Megatron and Veteran

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    I never noticed that. That's actually a really good parallel.
     
  16. Zigholtul

    Zigholtul I am the Waffle Maker

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    While there are some movies with some subtle propaganda behind them, the author of this article was clearing smoking something while he was typing it out. It's clear that this person probably doesn't have any hobbies to preoccupy himself with (probably views them as social degradation) and gets off trying to look for stuff in movies that aren't even there.
     
  17. Autovolt 127

    Autovolt 127 Get In The Titan, Prime!

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    Tom Kenny and Reno Wilson are awesome....they just had bad judgement,

    Way better as Wheelie and Brains.
     
  18. TylerMirage

    TylerMirage I vawnt my berdt.

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    Yeah, in their defense, I really feel that it was good natured fun and obviously not meant to purposefully insult anyone, but once all of the pieces came together the 'fun' turned into...

    [​IMG]

    It's like two school kids who joke around in class. The class laughs, it's cool. They continue to joke. And joke. And joke. And then at the end of the day they're sent to the principal's office because they took the jokes too far.
     
  19. QLRformer

    QLRformer Seeker

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    LOL I was composing a post in defense of the Twins, but the the recent posts have saved me a great deal of trouble. So I’ll just add my own two cents:

    The Twins are no more racist than Jazz or Blaster within TF; or beyond TF Mr Popo and Winston Zeddemore. Apart from the obvious BAD BOYS homage, they are also a tribute to ANIMATED Bumblebee, a kid-appeal motormouth whose alternate mode is a Chevy Beat.

    MBay’s BAD BOYS made its debut in 1995; the 1990s was the decade when the black subculture made its boom. Skids and Mudflap would fit right in that era, alongside shows like KENAN & KEL, MALCOLM & EDDIE and THE FRESH PRINCE. They were perhaps out of date, but I wouldn’t call them racist.

    Comparatively I’ve seen more offensive stuff (BORAT, THE BOONDOCKS), and anyway such callouts of racism are unending (THOR and MAN OF STEEL have had their own racism issues).

    In terms of usefulness, the Twins did help find the Tomb of the Primes, and they actually redeemed themselves by taking on Devastator: that action scene, showing how utterly fearless they are at fighting a Decepticon ten times their size, is actually one of my favourite fight scenes. Beyond that, they got heroic deaths in the DOTM comic (charging at Sentinel Prime, who rusts them to pieces) that totally turned things around for them.

    MBay COULD have done them better, maybe given them better humour (they SHOULD have ass-busted Leo and put him in their trunk, that would have been fun) and more action, but on the whole they were fairly okay and I can’t really see the fuss about them (but then it was only Roger Ebert who compared them to Jar Jar Binks, and his opinion has lost its appeal over the years).


    PS One wonders, would there have been an even greater row had they been called Sideswipe and Sunstreaker?
     
  20. Autovolt 127

    Autovolt 127 Get In The Titan, Prime!

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    Yeah How could Reno Wilson be rascist to himself?
     

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