Gestalt/Combiners in War for Cybertron: Fan brainstorming for HIGH MOON

Discussion in 'Transformers Video Game Discussion' started by KAGE, May 7, 2010.

  1. KAGE

    KAGE aka: GibsonKAGE

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    Basically a place for us to discuss gestalt play modes in future WFC games to give High Noon some ideas.

     
  2. KAGE

    KAGE aka: GibsonKAGE

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  3. Tiller

    Tiller I don't know nothin'

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    EDIT: ^ Don't just list G1 combiners either. The build team and Rail Racer for instance.

    Well, first off you need a role everyone in the combiner plays. 5 man team? They all have to be doing something and it has to be fun. Mashing buttons to keep together or playing turret won't cut it.

    That, and you're going to have to deal with Latancy issues, coordination problems, balance issues, map design, among all the modeling that has to be done.

    Personally, I would rather not see combiners at all in the WFC mythos. First off, the combining gimmick is getting way overused, and until you can convince me that they won't just be a mess to play I'd argue the fun value as well.
     
  4. Transformed

    Transformed 神戸 Member

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    It's never been done before in a Transformers game. It's bound to happen at some point.

    I had forgotten about lag:(  I wonder how that would play into things, but in the end, it may not even be a factor. Uncharted 2's team did an amazing job with their game's online play feature. Lag hardly ever happened, and when it did, characters just sort of skated across the ground rather than walking or running, but the gameplay itself didn't slow or freeze up all that much, and this was how their demo played!

    Transformers, however, may work quite differently, seeing that they're using a different engine. And we shouldn't forget about all the moving parts in this game. Not only do the characters have moving parts, but also the background too--the whole planet transformers at times. I how it does do what Street Fighter II used to do at times when too many things were happening at once on the screen: movie in slow motion until the processor has time to catch up with the animation. I wonder how playing someone with a weaker signal or slower speeds will work with this. I suppose that’s a potential nightmare waiting to happen, but I hope not.
     
  5. KAGE

    KAGE aka: GibsonKAGE

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    Raiden is a train team and Devastator is a construction team, listing any other would be some what repetitive seeing that G1 touched on most themes already.

    There is a G1 Rail Racer/Sixliner but now you see how weird it gets

    http://tfwiki.net/wiki/Sixliner

    http://tfwiki.net/wiki/Rail_Racer_(Universe)
     
  6. ronin0510

    ronin0510 Well-Known Member

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    Well i have an idea and Im just throwing it out there but what if the gestalt was a mode unto itself. Pvp and one player(Gestalt) vs the other players. Whoever racks up the most points/damage on the gestalt becomes him in the next round. The gestalt has the ability to split for a limited amount of time. When split he can recover health by picking up energon. Also when split has control over the leader and only two other members of the team although all five limbs are present when combined. Its kinda rough idea so any flaws are my bad im kinda short sighted lol. Also when split they take a little more damage and obviously deals more damage when combined.
     
  7. Transformed

    Transformed 神戸 Member

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    I'm all for Gestalts being the character itself, but that's nothing different from everyone else in the game. Having five individual parts becoming one character sounds like a pretty cool challenge never before approached on a video game (to my knowledge anyway). If High Moon Studios can pull such a thing off, they will be remembered forever for that.

    I wonder if High Moon Studios or Hasbro for that matter has permission to use Takara Transformers. Some of the Gestalts listed above were never released to the US market. I think would be a great time to introduce some or all of these characters. I’d love to see Overlord, Deathsaurus, Leo Convoy (Name unchanged), Star Saber, Dai Atlas, etc.
     
  8. ronin0510

    ronin0510 Well-Known Member

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    see i was under the impression that there was only three to a team normally. Lol. Thats what i get for assuming.
     
  9. Transformed

    Transformed 神戸 Member

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    I think 5 is the majority, that's how it was during the original run—Devastator being the exception with 6. Even Voltron had five lions merging into one back then; it was the thing to do. A few of the cassettes and cars/jets/tanks/whatevers combined into a single robot too.

    The newer line of Transformers did have teams of three (Devastator, if I’m not mistaken), but i think for the most part, it's something Hasbro has strayed away from of late.
     
  10. ronin0510

    ronin0510 Well-Known Member

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    i meant in the game lol
     
  11. Deadend

    Deadend Overloaded Spark

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    I've said this before for methods, and it would be the easiest method.

    Make two kinds of combiners, cooperative, and core.

    Cooperative is Devastator, or any gestalt that doesn't work on the 5 bot core system.
    This would be syncing minigames for mass level devastation, and character usage, but fusion takes time, and minigames and such to do. The entire aspect is about syncing up in unison, failed attempts offer more comedic results like an arm that hits a spot and then falls off where the player immediately takes control back.

    Core mode would be the basic 5 man gestalts.
    Menasor and so on. In this mode, one 5 man team is the leader, the other 4 are interchangeable limbs, really interchangeable...
    The limb characters have to pick a secondary bot to play as, when they enter limb mode, they kick over to the secondary till they transform out of limb mode. The core body has to collect them, and attach them to get bigger, one limb at a time, or however many nearby. Now here's the kicker, you can grab an opposing side's limb, and if they don't notice to do 'feedback' you also get that weapon boost hte limb offers. Now with the secondary character, at anytime you can disengage your limb, and do whatever back as that character, so say the gestalt, needed someone to go down a tunnel, disengage arm, and off they go get the flag or what not, while the rest of the team defends the entrance.

    This would give us the most variety of play types, and still mix in with the aspects of what each gestalt is like. Devastator being more prototype-ish, and the others more controled. The ways to beat them can vary per type too, but they also call for full level devastation too. almost nothing is safe unless extremely fortified. Like the WWI story more or less that used them. So even the guys out in the secondary bots have to watch out for debris if two gestalts are going at it. This way the action never stops with the war, and it's also been escalated with gestalts, two 4 man teams going at it, each with a gestalt. The 4 secondaries can be ai controlled to guard a 'base' or what not too. So that way when the limb mode engages and disengages, they don't just disappear. It'd work like the drop in and out of co-op mode.

    This can be adapted for any number of team types, the only one I'd suggest a new playtype for would be the buildking of RiD.
    Him, I'd say do limb mode for, with wedge being the core, but also offer him different weapons per gestalt array. But I'd also suggest doing this per limbs of the 5 cores too.

    Each limb variation can offer different perks, like more firepower, epic melee weapon, speed boost, flight boost, etc, all depending on the limbs and where they are at. So the gestalt itself becomes a variable form of attack. Makes sense that superion legs would let you fly into the air to do a pile driver into the map, whereas combaticons might offer more firepower, and stunticons faster speed. Or mix and match for aspects.
     
  12. Cryptwire

    Cryptwire Cybertronian Engineer/Sniper TFW2005 Supporter

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    ^ this

    i mentioned this in the other thread but i thought i want to post this again:

     
  13. Ceasar121

    Ceasar121 Wants a Toxitron repaint!

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    Gestalts should be limited to the single player experience. You should have the option to combine into a gestalt when you select members of the team... It should have advantages and disadvantages... ie slower movement, less coordinated attacks, risk of rival franchise calling in heavy hitters, risk of losing a member to stasis lock or extreme damage, thus losing the ability to use the gestalt for awhile...

    Honestly, I believe gestalts in multiplayer would be a bad idea at this point, due to lag, and lack of a reasonable way to involve multiple people in it's operation. I wouldn't mind if control of the gestalt switched every 20 or so seconds to a different player, just to keep everyone involved... long enough to perform some attacks, but not long enough for the other non controlling players to get bored. It would make for some interesting situation and a need for true team work to maximize the gestalts effectivness.

    Also I think Transformers is a game that is just now being able to be made effectively. I also think it will be another 5-7 years before a fully immersive experience with the freedom Transformers needs can be made. It'd be like if someone tried to make Grand theft Auto on the old NES. I think this game will be good, but I believe Transformers needs to be an open world experience, with RPG elements, and MMO capabilities.

    With that said, I am looking forward to WFC, and it's sequels, being that it's creators appear to be genuine fans of the franchise.
     
  14. billcosby

    billcosby Geewin

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    So are they specifically avoiding gestalts this time around? It would explain the absence of the Constructicons... since they are essentially including everyone else from G1 in the screenshots and info already released.

    I agree with Ceasar121 above... I think you should be able to play as one of any one character from a combiner... and have the option to "merge" at which point you control the combined gestalt. Super powerful but slow.
     
  15. Cryptwire

    Cryptwire Cybertronian Engineer/Sniper TFW2005 Supporter

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    the only Gestalts that i'm aware of in WFC are Trypticon and Omega Supreme and i don't think theyre playable... to me, it may have a different definition in Transformers fandom, Gestalts refer to Transformers/Cybertronians that were born with extraordinary heights and sizes, so these guys are different than the combiners which is made up groups and those groups contain individuals that are autonomous (Omega Supreme and others don't count as combiners imo because when their bodies separate to transform into different alt modes, these parts are not Cybertronians although technically, Omega can be considered a combiner but i prefer to call him a Gestalt because of his physical characteristics)
     
  16. Autobot Burnout

    Autobot Burnout SANTARN IS COMING AGAIN TFW2005 Supporter

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    I don't think combiners would work in multiplayer, there's simply no way to keep everybody playing enjoying the experience when they have to sacrifice control of their character simply so another person can have all the fun, and by switching control between the characters would make all but the most well-organized teams be useless as a combiner (and I expect the majority of WfC multiplayer players to simply join in games where they know nobody else beforehand).

    Also, for either Superion or Menasor to be formed, that would require at least five people on the same team to either be all jets or 4 cars and a truck, and there is NO way that would be a common occurance because 5 jets do not make a balanced team. Bruticus would be more likely, but I doubt Vortex would be implimented as a jet.

    On top of all that, if combiners WERE being implimented, there would need to be an equal number of them. As it is, there's only parts of Superion as opposed to parts of both Bruticus and Menasor. I can see Streetwise and possibly First Aid (if he's not a pacifist) being added in, but Groove is a bike, and I can't imagine bikes being a class implimented so late in the game development at this point.

    Er..."Gestalt" is actually a term based out of psychology that has a lot to do with the combining of seperate components, like the senses being formed from touch, taste, sight, smell, and hearing, NOT with giant robots that are simply "big" in size, so considering Trypticon and Omega Supreme gesalts is largely incorrect in the proper use of the word as neither of those two actually form from seperate components (WfC Omega just turns into a spaceship like Animated OS).
     
  17. Cryptwire

    Cryptwire Cybertronian Engineer/Sniper TFW2005 Supporter

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    mmmmm.... thank you for the info. now i will have to look up Gestalt in the dictionary :D  i was always the understanding that the term "Gestalt" means large in size and scope and synonymous with titanic, giant, etc.... but now that you've mentioned this, I will have to look up the word more. thanks :p 
     
  18. Cryptwire

    Cryptwire Cybertronian Engineer/Sniper TFW2005 Supporter

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    ahhhhh.. just looked it up lol. youre right. my bad. :D 

    the definition of Gestalt in the American Heritage Dictionary:

    Gestalt - a configuration or pattern of elements so unified as a whole that its properties cannot be derived from a simple summation of its parts.

    hmmm... so it is correct that Gestalt is a more solid term for "Combiner".... now i will have to remodify my thinking on this hehe. now that would put the likes of Omega Supreme, Trypticon, Metroplex, etc. in a whole other category... because these guys are larger than the average Cybertronian.
     
  19. Skyjack

    Skyjack Well-Known Member

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    Yeah Omega Supreme, Fortess Maximus, Trypticon, and Metroplex are definetely in some kind of TITAN class. They are pretty huge, playing them would be like a Godzilla game...
     
  20. Cryptwire

    Cryptwire Cybertronian Engineer/Sniper TFW2005 Supporter

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    hmmmmm.....

    Transformers: Gestalts and Titans

    sounds like a great title for an epic Transformers novel XP it's like the the Transformers version of the Greek myth giants like Orion, Polyphemus, Gegenees, etc....

    now that i'm thinking about it, i think i just got the inspiration to write my next fan-fic based on this :D 
     

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