Yeah thats how it is, I kinda read that one too ^

 

I don't buy that AT ALL. I'd say the Matrix of Leadership was deliberately included as itself.

This was the "origin of Unicron" story, after all, so there needed to be some reference to the Matrix. The Matrix was explicitly stated to be the only thing that could destroy Unicron, so it was necessary to establish SOME kind of connection between it and Unicron. While the episode did an unsatisfactory job of explaining that connection, the emergence of the Matrix from within the wreckage of Primacron's Assistant firmly established that it, like Unicron, was made (or at least used) by Primacron.



Interestingly, the Matrix is visibly damaged...

 

you don't have to buy it, i am in no way saying what i think is a fact, but in all these years I have seen absolutely no evidence that would suggest it was deliberate.

Deliberate would mean that there would/should have to be something in the dialogue ......
Deliberate it would mean that there would/should have to be something in the script .......
Deliberate would mean that there would/should have to be something even in a discarded script that would mention the Matrix in some way shape or form .....
and it's just not there

The only case that could be made for deliberate placement of the image would be if that the animators decided to add in a story element, and considering this episode was animated by an entirely different Studio that all the other ones I don't see how they would all of a sudden decide to start adding parts to the story.

As you said....This was the "origin of Unicron" story, so you woud think there woukd be some nention of the Matrix........ but is just not in the story anywhere.Even in the sceen in which we see the inage of The Matrix ...... the dialogue says nothing related to what the Matrix is

The dialog in the sceen said "I the prinacon's assistance escape to this dead world", and considering we saw assistant earlier it kind of leaves credence to the idea that what we saw was him escaping in what the annin a tors thought was a ship of some type

Bottom line, with absolutely no mention of the Matrix in dialogue , nothing in any known Scripts, and nothing in the way of re-written scripts, makes the emergence of the image of the Matrix a non issue , it establishees absolutely nothing in regards to a connection to the Matrix of leadership as we know it

Now if anyone ever find something in the future in a script or some writers note I'm totally open to seeing it and amending my opinion on this topic

or differently designed which considering what episode was talking about would not be much of a surprise considering how many other characters were using different designs

 

Ok then, and how do you explain Rodimous existing on earths moon at the same time, the 'Matrix' was at the center of the Galaxy. And Rodimus/Hotrod been oblivious to its absence.

 

I think the idea is that the assistant or primacron Used or created The matrix at the same time they created unicron which was millions of years ago

 

Yeah but we dont know that now, Do we?

 

Actually drawing and animating the Matrix of Leadership is quite a deliberate act. I'd say that's evidence. And, hey, I've seen no evidence to suggest it was a mistake. People just seem to think it was a mistake. Of course, if anyone ever finds any real evidence that it was a mistake in the future I'm totally open to seeing it and amending my opinion on this topic.

That appearance of the Matrix was in the STORY being told by the "Oracle" (the talking glowy light).

I'm getting the impression you don't remember the episode very well. :-/

 

Considering I saw it yesterday, I remember it very well. Tell me what says that Primacrons assistant built the matrix again? And at the same time Primacron build Unicron at that?

 

The Oracle's "long-ago story" (as Grimlock describes it) begins with:

"Near the beginning of the galaxy" might refer to a location (like, where the galaxy first came into being) but that's highly unlikely. The use of the word "beginning" denotes a process, which denotes time. The galaxy (presumably the Milky Way) is about 13.6 billion years old. "Near the beginning of the galaxy" is most likely to mean "closer in time to when the galaxy began than to our present time"... Which would mean at least 6.9 billion years ago (approximately).

Nothing says Primacron's assistant built the Matrix. Nothing says Primacron built Unicron at the same time. (I never claimed either of those things, I have no idea where you're getting this from.) In fact, we know that Primacron built Unicron after he built his Primitives.

According to the episode's original script, The Oracle "is the 'energy-force' of a former Transformer 'primitive'."

Primacron built some the Primitives, so it's a reasonably safe assumption that he built his Primitive assistant. The Matrix was seen emerging from the wreckage of Primacron's assistant, who Primacron (presumably) built, and we know Primacron built Unicron. Since Primacron built both Unicron and (apparently) the Matrix as well, this establishes that the Matrix and Unicron have at least some kind of connection.

The Matrix's appearance is accompanied by this line:

This establishes that the Matrix houses the assistant's consciousness (spark?) at the time that it left the physical wreckage of the assistant's body. We don't see the Matrix arrive on "this dead world" (retroactively declared to be the planet Methusula), and we know the Matrix is inside Rodimus Prime in the present, so two possibilities exist. After the assistant left his wrecked body in the Matrix, he either:
(A) traveled to Cybertron, where the Matrix stayed, and he used some other method(s) to get to Protos and become the "Oracle," or
(B) traveled to Protos, where he stayed and become the "Oracle" and then the Matrix was sent or taken to Cybertron afterwards.

Again, all this happened a lonnnnngggg time ago -- potentially billions of years ago. A lot can happen in such a long time. Certainly it's enough time for the Matrix to travel around the galaxy between Primacron's lab, Protos, and/or Cybertron.

That's all I'm saying.

 

All I am going to say is: Presumably, Presumably....Too many presumptions.

Regarding this: (I never claimed either of those things, I have no idea where you're getting this from.)

I said this: "But we dont know now, do we?" Quoting Altered Prime: "I think the idea is that the assistant or primacron Used or created The matrix at the same time they created unicron which was millions of years ago".

Therefore the only logical explanation since you quoted me was to answer to that.

 

And all I'm going to say is:
You're presuming just as much, but with less evidence to support your point.

 

Presumptions are not evidence. I never presume I try to find evidence.

And since you are playing smart guy, tell me what my point is, since I never raised one.

 

Indeed, presumptions not evidence. But my assumptions are based on logical inference. I'm not claiming my evaluations of the episode are evidence. I'm asserting that they make sense. Given that we have no evidence that the assistant's "escape pod" was not the Matrix, and given that it was deliberately drawn as the Matrix, it seems logical to me that the rumor about it (that the animation studio thought the design of the Matrix was that of a shuttle or ship) is probably just that -- a rumor.

Well, that's rude for no reason.

Alright. You asked me:

This question seems to indicate that you thought my stated opinion (that the assistant's "escape pod" really was supposed to be the Matrix) was probably wrong. (Which is fine.) It seems like your point was that you didn't think I was right about this matter. It seems like you were challenging my assertion (which, again, is fine) and in doing so you were making the point that you think I'm on the wrong track.

And finally:

I didn't realize you were referring to something Altered Prime said. Thanks for the clarification.

Anyway, I hope you're not getting angry or irritated or something. None of this stuff really matters. We're talking about an episode of a cartoon from 1986.

 

Bold part is where you lost it. You are assuming again. I asked an opinion and nothing more.

The reason about my rudeness is that you are been rude in the first place. Intentional or not, it doesnt concearn me.
I am not going to become anoyed at anyone on the internet. But I do have a habbit of replying in the same manner I was been addressed.

 

Huh? I was talking about Metrowars, not the Sunbow cartoon.

 

Uh huh. Sure.

When was I rude? (Other than right above in this very post.) Would you clarify please?

 

no it just isint

And when you factor in that this episode was animated by a studio house they had not worked on Transformers before and at the writer of this episode had never written an episode that featured the Matrix in Anyway..... it just seems less and less likely a delivered act

Its certainly something to bring up in the debate but it's hardly evidence in support of any case for deliverance

now either you're in 100% denial or really stretching for that apple on the tree

The very obvious facts in this series is that mistakes are abundant and they're alone suggest that this appearance could have been a mistake. And when you put it together with the other pieces of circumstantial evidence it just makes a suggestion even stronger

The People that think it was a mistake feel so becsuse there is nothing in the story or dialogue that mentions a The Matrix in any way shape or form

 

wrong
The line itself only establishes that the assistance escaped in some way

Now they use of the animation model of the Matrix implys was that it was his consciousness/spark that escaped in The Matrix but as I said there's nothing in the dialogue to back up that idea and if it was a mistake then the line itself establishes nothing to support your idea

Sorry friend but you really did not present absolutely any evidence whatsoever that supports your case

and this is where your biggest issue is you provided nothing that suggests image of the Matrix used in the episode was deliberately drawn as The Matrix and not just something they thought was shuttle

Which by the way was a mistake in several episodes of this season

 

But the topic wasn't about Metro Wars it was about an episode in the sunbow cartoon

 

The way you put your explanation. Now if it was not intended its no biggie, written word has a way of confussing us since it doesnt convey feelings.

We can forget this and go on, no ill feelings.