G1 robot forms

Discussion in 'Transformers General Discussion' started by Macross79, Sep 20, 2017.

  1. Ryan F

    Ryan F Transform and Roll Out! TFW2005 Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2009
    Posts:
    1,265
    News Credits:
    4
    Trophy Points:
    227
    Likes:
    +871
    Sorry, perhaps I wasn't clear. For every figure, Budiansky wrote an extended profile (subdivided into sections like Profile, Abilities, Weaknesses etc) that were printed in full in the Transformers Universe comic series. The box tech specs were simply abridged versions of the Universe profiles.

    So yeah, if you compare the full profiles of the movie guys to any other toys (even obscurer figures like, I dunno, Scoop), you'll see an obvious difference in quality of content.

    When edited down into the smaller Tech Spec format for the backs of the boxes, the differences become less pronounced, granted, but it's fairly common knowledge that the bios for the Movie guys were essentially hack-work.
     
  2. Altered Prime

    Altered Prime Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2014
    Posts:
    3,701
    Trophy Points:
    222
    Likes:
    +383
    I was talking about the extended bios and again I don't see that much of a difference between the movie bios and the average transformer bio

    True when you compare them to some of the more better known characters there are some differences but when you look at the average it just doesn't make that much of an impact
     
  3. Ryan F

    Ryan F Transform and Roll Out! TFW2005 Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2009
    Posts:
    1,265
    News Credits:
    4
    Trophy Points:
    227
    Likes:
    +871
    Well, Arblus and Arcee are lacking the 'abilities' section, and Blurr, Cyclonus, Galvatron, Kup, Springer and Ultra Magnus are missing the 'weaknesses' section. The vehicle modes of Arblus, Arcee, Galvatron, Hot Rod, Rodimus Prime, Kup, Ultra Magnus and Wheelie aren't mentioned AT ALL in the extended bios (in contrast to every other bio written by Bob Budiansky).

    You mentioned earlier that it was pertinent how Twin Twist and Topspin were specifically referred to as 'Cybertronian' vehicles in their bio and the Movie guys weren't.... but obviously that line of argument would seem to be flawed, because Shockwave (whose space gun mode is clearly Cybertronian) is also lacking the 'Cybertronian' description in his bio, too.

    Look, I know you think the movie guys have future Earth modes, and I respect that. But seriously, no reasonable person would look at the bios or Tech Specs and think that they offer any insight on the argument either way. You're putting 2 and 2 together and getting 5, inferring things that aren't really there.
     
  4. Altered Prime

    Altered Prime Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2014
    Posts:
    3,701
    Trophy Points:
    222
    Likes:
    +383
    im at a doc office so I'll try to be short

    I'm just kind a topic I don't count one time seeing characters

    The vehicle mod for kup was mentioned

    And there are others of his bios that you have some of the same problems although I will admit maybe not to the same degree

    Nice try but no cigar

    While true his bio does not contain of the rec statement of having a cyber Tron mode, it clearly states and I quote.

    "Never having been adapted by the Ark to an Earthly form"

    Which was noted in talking about his size , its still a indirect claim of his retaining his alien modes

    And btw, not to different from the wording on topspin

    Look, I know you think the movie guys have cybetron modes, and Thats kool

    But seriously, I don't see how the inspirations from the vehicles can be denied

    I mean really, why the hell would any cyber Tron mode have an engine sticking out of its hood, not to mention the fact that the engine is very much "human created looking"

    That design feature is very directly linked to a particular type of muscle cars called hot rods and lo and behold what do they call the Character........

    Hot Rod

    I don't see any way to deny that he wasn't intended to be a futuristic hot rod vehicle
     
  5. Ryan F

    Ryan F Transform and Roll Out! TFW2005 Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2009
    Posts:
    1,265
    News Credits:
    4
    Trophy Points:
    227
    Likes:
    +871
    I thought I covered this point already? I don’t deny that Floro Dery may have based the movie characters’ vehicle designs on real world vehicles, I never have done.

    What I’ve said though, is: real world design inspiration doesn’t necessarily mean in-fiction terrestrial. For example, HR Giger’s designs for Alien were based on (ahem) certain areas of the human anatomy. But just because the Xenomorphs have terrestrial design inspiration, it doesn’t follow that the aliens actually come from Earth.

    The Cardassian spaceships in Star Trek were inspired by an Egyptian ankh, but there’s no suggestion in-fiction that those ships are from Earth.

    The Judoon in Doctor Who are based on Earthly rhinoceroses, but again, not supposed to be from Earth.

    Sorry to belabour the point, but just because someone gets design inspiration from a terrestrial source... it doesn’t necessarily follow that the resulting fictional creation is also from Earth.

    Fall of Cybertron Swindle says hi.
     
  6. Altered Prime

    Altered Prime Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2014
    Posts:
    3,701
    Trophy Points:
    222
    Likes:
    +383
    But swindle says it in a language nobody understands

    That was my poor attempt at a joke.my point being that what you saw pn that figure look nothing like its human made and just like had three pipes sticking out of either area

    And while I love your analogies don't think they really fit the situation ,with those examples the designers took those things and went out of their way to make sure they really didn't look recognizable

    Which seems to be seriously lacking in the tf movie designs..... not to mention the terrestrial origins of your examples of quite clearly spelled out in the fiction

    Again major lacking within the TF film designs

    I love this conversation but I can tell you right now there's not much is going to help me lean in your directions to change my mind short of a 100% clear statement given at the time in question
     
    • Like Like x 1
  7. Ryan F

    Ryan F Transform and Roll Out! TFW2005 Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2009
    Posts:
    1,265
    News Credits:
    4
    Trophy Points:
    227
    Likes:
    +871
    Well, okay then, if the testimony of the movie characters’ actual designer Floro Dery isn’t enough for you, then I guess nothing I say is going to have any effect, either.

    Said Galileo, to those who would not believe: “Eppur si muove”.

    And goodnight.
     
  8. Altered Prime

    Altered Prime Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2014
    Posts:
    3,701
    Trophy Points:
    222
    Likes:
    +383
    "The historian is a prophet looking backwards."

    The testimony you offered is nearly 20 years too late and therefore rendered a little worse to this debate

    good night to you too my friend
     
  9. G1Prowl

    G1Prowl Prick, apparently

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2008
    Posts:
    7,510
    Trophy Points:
    247
    Likes:
    +813
    The OP was referring to the alt mode kibble in bot mode. He's basically asking why they have 70's and 80's vehicle kibble on their bot modes when it should have been Cybertronian vehicle kibble. I thought it was pretty obvious what they meant.




    Now as to why: They didn't think that 6 year olds would nitpick that to death, so they didn't waste resources on making different animation models.











    And as far Ryan F. and Altered Prime's back and forth: First, I'm completely speechless that someone would handwave off the words of the actual designer. That being said, I'm reminded of Ryan's IDW blog and where three people said that a poet's analysis of one of his own poems was incorrect, and applying that to this... discussion, can understand how it could be handwaved off.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  10. Altered Prime

    Altered Prime Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2014
    Posts:
    3,701
    Trophy Points:
    222
    Likes:
    +383
    And I thought it was obvious why we didn't see any cyber-kibble on those robot forms and why we didn't get more cyber Tron vehicles in the shows opener

    But I guess what's obvious to one person isn't to the other hence why I asked the question
    Exactly 100% agreed

    Because hindsight is always 2020

    Because so many of them look like existing vehicles and concepts

    Maybe he was going for a look that could be taken either way and that's why he chose the vehicles he chose to take inspiration from

    Someone here once asked the question that if they were to ask Flo, today, who became cyclonus" ? ...and if his answer was" skywarp" would that put that the debate to rest?

    Many people said sure and yes

    But again that "hypothetical" answer would just be one backed by 20 years of hindsight and ideas of what could have been or maybe what he even wanted to do

    But the empirical evidence would show otherwise

    If you don't agree with me that's fine I'm not sitting here trying to convince others just telling you what I learned and what I feel
     
  11. G1Prowl

    G1Prowl Prick, apparently

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2008
    Posts:
    7,510
    Trophy Points:
    247
    Likes:
    +813
    What people debate with your answer is that you haven't really shown where you "learned" what you "learned", and that "feel" is not empirical evidence. What we DO have is the original designer of the movie character designs stating something counter to what you "learned", and you are defaulting back to what you "feel". That's great, and passion is always admirable, but when disputed with cold concrete fact, passion becomes irrelevant.


    Also, if someone didn't get famous until 20 years after they wrote a song, and they were interviewed THEN and asked what the song was about, does their response somehow become incorrect or false because they weren't asked back when they wrote the song? Go ask James Taylor right now what "Fire and Rain" is about, I sincerely doubt it'd be a different answer than any he's given over the last 40 years or more.
     
  12. Altered Prime

    Altered Prime Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2014
    Posts:
    3,701
    Trophy Points:
    222
    Likes:
    +383
    Dude I understand all that and I said it several times take the info that I post it for what it's worth to you

    If you feel it's worthless it's fine I've been dealing with some health issues and I just don't really feel I have the extra energy to put into the resources for digging things up

    I never said anything I believe was empirical evidence

    As for that example of yours I have seen many people change their exclamations for things over years as a result of obvious hindsight
     
  13. Ryan F

    Ryan F Transform and Roll Out! TFW2005 Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2009
    Posts:
    1,265
    News Credits:
    4
    Trophy Points:
    227
    Likes:
    +871
    No, because that’s not his area of expertise. Dery was the concept artist who designed the look of the characters. He wasn’t the writer, he wasn’t the director, he wasn’t the artist who storyboarded that scene. You could ask Stephen Hawking the best way to bake a pie, but it would be a waste of a question!
     
    • Like Like x 1
  14. Altered Prime

    Altered Prime Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2014
    Posts:
    3,701
    Trophy Points:
    222
    Likes:
    +383
    Well I chose to use flo in my post but from what I recall the person who asked the question was being more general as to asking anybody and everybody involved in creating the film

    but I think you understand the point of trying to make
     

Share This Page