G1 music restoration project../

Discussion in 'Transformers News and Rumors' started by KMITB, Aug 18, 2014.

  1. Rated X

    Rated X Well-Known Member

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    Great work once again ! As far as Im concerned, this is the "offical" score for G1. In the age of MP3 music (which I already converted them too) does anybody really need a stinking cover and a jewel case for $25 ? Its safe to say this is the official score with the voices "unofficially" removed. It just took a lot more work. With the Sunbow studio master copy they could just hit mute on certain tracks. Im not familiar with this type of editing, but my experience in digital mixing of vocals tells me this took some serious effort. I give this guy mad props.
     
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  2. Snowcat

    Snowcat Animation Detective

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    Well that probably wouldn't be the case. They'd be going back to the original master tapes for the music recordings and doing a lot of professional remastering. I'm sure an official release would sound so much better then this.

    No disservice meant to the work done here though. It's the best that could be done with the material available.
     
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  3. Macross7

    Macross7 Well-Known Member

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    While this is an awesome work, I'd still buy an official release.
     
  4. Rated X

    Rated X Well-Known Member

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    Well it all depends how many tracks the music was mixed on how much more could be done. If the original masters only have the music mixed on one track, then all they can really do is mute the vocals. Now if they had the original masters for just the music, then they can tweak different sounds. I imagine the sunbow masters only had the music on one track though since it was supplied by the artist. Another reason I think this is way better than an offical release is because Hasbro might skimp out on tracks they thought were too similar or too short to be on an offical album. Here you get everything, even tracks that are 10 seconds long that take you to the commercials.
     
  5. Snowcat

    Snowcat Animation Detective

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    I'm fairly sure all the original recordings still exist. Those master tapes will sound markedly improved compared to what you hear in the episodes. The show was edited 30 years ago on analog equipment, so everything would have been constantly degrading in the process. If they go back to the original tapes, they can do a lot more then simply tweaking sounds. Of course this does depend on the condition of the master tapes and the people involved in remastering them. But I think it would likely sound a lot better then what we've got.
     
  6. kary

    kary Karyuudo Fansubs

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    I kinda get a bit miffed when I read comments like this. If you honestly think you can do better, please do step up and make this release even better. Given the fact that we don't even have an official release available of this, I'll take this any day over nothing.
     
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  7. kary

    kary Karyuudo Fansubs

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  8. Rated X

    Rated X Well-Known Member

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    No doubt the masters of the G1 episodes exist. But im not talking about those masters. Im talking about the masters of the music alone by its composer. The master that breaks up the drums from the guitar, synths, hi hats, 808 bass, etc. Remember the music is mastered in a studio on ADAT and then dubbed on one single track to the cartoon master. If that master exists, it would be property of the composer or his studio, not sunbow. Of course the composer/mixing technician would have a contract not to release the work. But those tapes were expensive and often recycled after the final mixdown. Nobody in the 80s envisioned digital remastering or even CDs for that matter.
     
  9. Snowcat

    Snowcat Animation Detective

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    Well I think there's some misunderstanding here because that's exactly what I'm talking about. The master tapes of the music recordings. If I recall Robert Walsh, the composer, has stated that the tapes exist and are in great condition.
     
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  10. Snowcat

    Snowcat Animation Detective

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  11. AnonymousDwell

    AnonymousDwell Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, as a very amateur 100% non-professional musician, but one with what I like to hope is a decent ear and who has done it for 25 years, I can definitely hear where improvements could be made (imho!) in terms of spatialization (increased sense of stereo separation,) and even just EQ (mid and low frequencies don't sound as clear as I'd like,) and that there's too much compression or normalizing going on (there's some faint clipping, dynamic range could be better, etc.) but...

    ... as others have said, I can also tell someone put a ton of work into this and did the absolute best they could with the sources they had to work with. I certainly wouldn't have taken the time and effort to do any better myself, so how can I over-critique the hard work they clearly did? They have done an enormous service to the community and I have nothing but gratitude for that. It's the best we're likely to get until an official release (which has the benefit of the original masters.) Which I will also buy and support.

    And then there's the fact that even when you're listening through reference quality monitors, there's some subjectivity involved for everyone.

    I don't wish to look a gift horse in the mouth, and am very grateful to those who worked on this. And honestly at the end of the day I ask: "Is this still at least by far the best quality I've heard these old tunes in so far short of a hopefully eventual official release?" And the answer I come up with is, "Yes." So while my obsessive audiophile ears hear some issues, I'll happily take it!
     
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2017
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  12. Rodimus

    Rodimus The Prime Producer

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    Jimbo, your work will be put to good use in the dubbing of Headmasters. I thank you sir, and to everyone who has supported Jimbo and this project. This fandom is amazing in what we can all collectively accomplish.
     
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  13. Rodimus

    Rodimus The Prime Producer

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    And now I won't have to keep ripping music from the DVD's to use in Headmasters. Battle In Space had to be re-ripped for the scenes I was dubbing and even then there's a tweet SFX I couldn't totally get rid of. I'm sure this version is better.
     
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  14. Spether

    Spether Well-Known Member

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    I absolutely love Battle in Space I, though for me that track has stronger memories from where it is used in the G.I. Joe Movie. Poor Snow Job!
     
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  15. Murasame

    Murasame CHIMICHANGAS

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    The difference is, this is a kickstarter project and the guys paid an unprofessional to buy software to do an unprofessional job.

    If he did it for free, I would be more benevolent. Or if it was an professional who did not need guys to give him money to buy software in the first place. Then I would be far more understanding for people giving money to this.

    Of course you are miffed if you're not experienced in sound engineering and do not grasp the whole problem with this situation.

    I have 19 years experience in producing music and I have the right equipment. But given the source material, a real "restoration" is futile. But I would not have charged people for buying me software. I already have the software. And I have professional software.

    Not this stuff this guy was using.

    It's the circumstances how this came to be that leaves a bad taste in my mouth.
     
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2017
  16. jamarmiller

    jamarmiller S.K.A.R. LEADER

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    Wow , dude I’m usually with you on your post, like 99 percent of the time but man I could not be more disgusted with your post . Thanks for contributing to this project mr professional with the right equipment and experience, who did jack squat while watching others do a ton of work and then complain about it. .
     
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  17. Murasame

    Murasame CHIMICHANGAS

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    You don't get my point. What is disgusting is that someone gets nearly two thousands of dollars to get himself some fancy software. I don't want to discredit the effort put into this work. The people did not support this project, they supported some guy to buy himself some software.

    That's like if I would start a kickstarter to buy myself a big ass truck to carry poor people out of a warzone into safe harbour. Wow, that good guy rescues people. No, that guy bought himself a big ass truck he can drive around his whole life.

    That's the same here.

    But OK, if you guys are oblivious of the fact that you had to pay him in first place to make him start trying to do this. It's your money.
     
  18. Rated X

    Rated X Well-Known Member

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    Well if thats the case, then maybe they do exist. But if he isnt trying to bring them out, I doubt Hasbro or Shout Factory will make it happen.
     
  19. AnonymousDwell

    AnonymousDwell Well-Known Member

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    There will always be those who take issue with the notion of crowdfunding. Personally, I think it's a great thing. No one holds a gun to anyone's head and forces them to donate.

    It's more akin to: someone says, "Hey, I'd like to do X. If you guys wanna help me accomplish X, please feel free to donate, and I promise to do my best, but there are no guarantees. If not, that's your prerogative." Then people act accordingly.

    I don't see anything "disgusting" about that, personally. Had he not used said software to actually try to do what he set out to, that would be one thing. But he did. Perhaps not up to everyone's standards (not even mine, honestly, at least not when compared to what I hope we get from an official future release.) But I do believe he, in good faith, did everything possible to produce the best quality output he could.

    Moreover, while flawed and not as good as a professional sound engineer and/or producer with access to the actual masters (better still, if the original source files all survived independently) will be able to do, it's still the best I've heard them sound, so... I can't be too ungrateful, personally.

    As long as people's donations are voluntary, and the implications thereof are understood by all concerned, I don't see the ethical or other issue with that personally. But that's just me. YMMV.
     
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2017
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  20. Single Elegant Machine

    Single Elegant Machine Purity and order.

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    Unfortunately, Buckley only released one track on his website. The second, Megatron's theme, is pieced together and edited from the show by a fan. I asked Buckley before about soundtrack releases, and he seemed hopeful that they would eventually be Botcon exclusives--this was ten years ago.
     
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