Fan Art: G1 Heads: A Call to All 3D Artists

Discussion in 'Creative General Discussion' started by Cory Bauer, Sep 13, 2006.

  1. Cory Bauer

    Cory Bauer Well-Known Member

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    Hey All,

    As many of you know, the fandom is really pushing for G1-inspired faces for the live-action Transformers. I know there are a lot of talented 3D artists here, so I wanted to get your perspective as my 3D capabilities are pretty limited. Do you feel that it would be possible to create functional G1 faces in 3D? Could you make it smile, look angry, and talk without it looking like the I, Robot guy? I haven't seen any fan work that isn't just a static face, but then again maybe I just haven't seen it. I'd love to hear your thoughts, and if anyone's open to the challenge I'd really love to see someone make a working G1 face. I think a proof of concept would go a long way in unifying the fandom and getting the filmmaker's attention. Thanks for your feedback.
     
  2. Primus

    Primus Beware, the modelers. Veteran

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    It could be done, but IMO it wouldn't flow with the current designs.
     
  3. Mike

    Mike Banned

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    why they need faces in the first place is beyond me, but yeah it could be done, easily.

    look at any animated CGI cartoon, like shrek, or incredibles. they animate mouth movements and faces perfectly. they would just have to make it metal textured.
     
  4. Venksta

    Venksta Render Project Creations TFW2005 Supporter

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    I think the point for the G1 faces is the design itself, and not if it can be done or not. Of course it can be done, you don't really need any proof besides any movie with CG in it. It comes down to the design. It wouldn't look realistic. What kind of material would the face be? It can not be metal. Rubber would be a better choice. It can bend, and help create the different shapes and emotions the face could make. But then, rubber wouldn't be a very durable material to use on robots that fight in wars. And besides, if these Transformers are from another world, why should their face resemble humans? Their already stretching it with them have two eyes. :) 
     
  5. Angryscott

    Angryscott Pancake Hustler

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    Agreed. I also always wondered why a robot needed a nose and mouth.

    And don't even get me started on the need for sexual dimorphism in non-sexually reproducing robots...

    ...But yeah, it could be done. Look at Draven's Redemption, for instance.
     
  6. Wiggyof09

    Wiggyof09 Well-Known Member

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    Why they need human features is not really the issue. The issue is they have them, and so should the movie counter parts. Just the way it is.

    As for what the faces could be made of to make them realistic, they could easily explain that with alien metal. There are plenty of pliable metals. Mercury is a liquid at room temperature. All they would need to do to explain it is say it's some cybertronian alloy that is pliable at room temp.

    As for if it can be done in 3d, of course it can. Beast Wars anyone?
     
  7. Star Cracker

    Star Cracker Well-Known Member

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    well, in all honesty, in order to do a technologically sound G1 face, it gets tricky around the mouth, because that's where the most exaggerated expression comes from. Nose is pretty easy, followed by eyes to some extent. Again, the mouth is the trick.
     
  8. Wiggyof09

    Wiggyof09 Well-Known Member

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    I don't think it would be too tricky for movie effects guys though. It owuld be like any CGI mouth and as was said before, look at things like Shrek.
     
  9. Venksta

    Venksta Render Project Creations TFW2005 Supporter

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    Then Megatron should be a gun, and Starscream can't look like a gorilla. And Bumblebee....he can't be a cool camaro, cuz he was a VW Beetle. :rolleyes2 

    This all goes back to the design. If for some reason in the movie, they say ancient humans, who had space ships, went and colonized planet cybertron, and created the transformers... Then the anime face wouldn't be a problem.

    But the new approach for the design is from an alien point of view. So no face.

    Honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if the second movie gave some of the TFs the anime face. By then(movie timeline), the TFs would have more exposure to earth.
     
  10. Cory Bauer

    Cory Bauer Well-Known Member

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    I haven't seen Draven's work emote. Do they talk? Or make different facial expressions?

    The unique thing about the G1 faces was that, while the mouths moved like flesh, they had hard chiseled cheeks and chins. When I say Chiseled I mean you can literally see the line, as if it's panels of metal meeting together. That, and the fact that they need to be metal, is what makes them unique from Shrek and other flesh-based creatures.

    Can you have a solid metal robot with a liquid Metal face? And if his lips are metal, can you get the hard-edge G1 lines in there too? I don't want this to be a debate about whether or not they should have faces, but rather if G1 faces can be done in a believable fashion. Thanks for the feedback so far.
     
  11. Wiggyof09

    Wiggyof09 Well-Known Member

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    Of coursei t can be done. It's all about design and texture. If it can be done in the cartoon it can be done in CGI.

    That's different. We know that the transformers can be anything they want more or less, but they always kept the same style head. It's a basic elemet that makes a transformer a transformer. If we really want to make this realistic, why make then humanoid at all? It would be much more realistic is they were insectoid like robots.

    Fact is it's really hard to say what is realistic when it comes to aliens. G1 heads would be just as realistic as the movie heads.
     
  12. Cory Bauer

    Cory Bauer Well-Known Member

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    Well that's what I'm wondering. Can it really be transferred from cartoon to CGI? Liquid face on a solid-state body? Why can their faces be liquid and the rest of them can't? How do you sell the face as "fleshy metal" when it's attached to a "real" metal body? Or would they be like an animtronic face, with a rubbery face over top like this:

    http://www.facstaff.bucknell.edu/shooter/integrated%20face.htm
     
  13. Wiggyof09

    Wiggyof09 Well-Known Member

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    Why wouldn't they be able to have a pliable metal face on a stronger body? You can have glass windows on a steal building. You can have rubber tires on a car.

    If anything it makes more sense for a race of robots to have faces that can be expressive.
     
  14. Cory Bauer

    Cory Bauer Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, but how bizarre would that be if the rubber tires on a car appeared to be made out of the same material as the car itself, or the glass windows had a steel finish? See what I'm saying? Everything about the physical appearance of a window and a steel building or a tire and a car is polar opposite. How do you distinguish the two as their own substance when the face and body are both metal, only one is stretchy and the other solid? It seems that their faces would almost have to be rubber for us to make that visual distinction and give it a level of believability. It seems akin to putting T-1000's face on the T-800.
     
  15. Wiggyof09

    Wiggyof09 Well-Known Member

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    It's not like people are idiots. Our heads wouldn't explode if we saw a liquid metal like face on a regular metal body. I think you are over thin,ingi t.
     
  16. turk128

    turk128 Well-Known Member

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    Dude, speak for yourself, I would dearly love to see Elita One appear in the sequel with gigantic "realistic" chest mounted missile launchers.

    Here's my contribution to plastic yet metalic face:
    [​IMG]
     
  17. Trypitcon

    Trypitcon No, I can't spell.

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    Yeah just make something up. Like antimentium.
     
  18. gdpwatson

    gdpwatson Well-Known Member

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    First post here fellas! Long time reader though:

    This is from another thread here and shows exactly how it would be possible to have a face capable of showing emotions and expressions:

    http://www.tfw2005.com/boards/showthread.php?t=110035

    Plus it ties in nicely with the current movie designs.
     
  19. Cory Bauer

    Cory Bauer Well-Known Member

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    timshinn73 does great work, and I would love for the faces to look the way he does them. Unfortunately his are 2D - the real proof is if someone can make that in 3D and make it smile big and look angry. Will all the plates timshinn73 builds the face out of work to make expressions, or will they end up just colliding with eachother and create something truly bizarre looking? If it can be animated the way timshinn73 creates them, I definitely feel that would be the route to go since the faces remain part of the robot instead of being some liquid metal oddity. Thanks for posting gdpwatson.
     
  20. Venksta

    Venksta Render Project Creations TFW2005 Supporter

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    If a face can be modeled that looks like the toy faces(which has been done by different artists here), it can also be animated and keep the same shape. I can't remember who has done any lypsynching here, but go find 3d renderings by Weewoo or Makoto. They modeled very good "anime" faces on their TF models. And take a look at some Cybertron episodes. There should be a couple TFs that have the hard edges in their face.
     

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