G1/BW unexplained plots?

Discussion in 'Transformers General Discussion' started by Star Cracker, Jan 19, 2008.

  1. Star Cracker

    Star Cracker Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2003
    Posts:
    1,116
    Trophy Points:
    177
    Likes:
    +2
    I was in the shower one day (well no, not really) and was thinking about what exactly happened to the Autobot Matrix of Leadership / Creation Matrix / whatever the hell you want to call it, and am curious. Is there any official explanation as to what happened to this?

    On top of that, whatever happened to the 'lineage' of Primes? I mean, seriously, there are about five or six known Primes from the Dreamwave and IDW series (including Alpha Prime, Guardian Prime, Sentinel Prime, Optimus Prime, Rodimus Prime, and Nova Prime), but what happened to them? Who is the Maximals' Prime?
    I guess it's not Lio Convoy or Big Convoy (a pity, but oh well).

    Btw speaking of Lio and Big Convoy, are they related to Optimus Prime? I only have the Third Source Book for Beast Wars and need to track down the first two.

    Also, asides from Grimlock and Ravage, are there any other reformatted Autobots and Decepticons? I believe Prowl, Ironhide and Silverbolt (the Aerialbot commander) are listed as having been reformatted into Maximals.
     
  2. Raven Zombie

    Raven Zombie Liege Ravnos Muerte

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2005
    Posts:
    270
    Trophy Points:
    111
    Likes:
    +0
    dosnt big convoy have a matrix?
    there is a rumor that Waspy is Shrapnel
    Arcee got a spider upgrade in the botcon comics
    the g1 preds look to have bw bodies in the timelines comic
    i assume laserbeak/buzzsaw's E divebomb bodies are supposed to be BW
     
  3. Sol Fury

    Sol Fury The British Butcher Administrator News Staff

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2002
    Posts:
    35,576
    News Credits:
    4
    Trophy Points:
    317
    Likes:
    +34
    Facebook:
    Instagram:
    I'll be bringing in some of the Japanese continuity here as well, though a lot of this isn't fully explained.

    No official explanation. Big Convoy and Lio Convoy both have Matrixes, as does Liojunior (his split off from Lio Convoy's).
    The BW Neo anime had a Convoy council, with each Convoy possessing a Matrix. In that series, the Matrices provided links to Vector Sigma as a part of their role as Matrix of Leadership. At least, Big Convoy's appeared to. It's possible the original Matrix was divided, or was only ever one of many. Not fully explained.

    Convoy council. The leader was probably the Prime. Convoy is Prime in Japan, so it's possible that Lio Convoy could be the Prime. He's certainly the most Prime-like of all the Maximal leaders.

    Only in name, like Optimus Primal and BW Megatron. They are part of a long line of Convoys / Primes who occupy leadership positions.
    Incidentally, Longrack is also descended from a line of Giraffe Primes, according to a BW Neo manga.

    As far as I know it's only those five. I'd rather the BW generation characters be completely unrelated apart from Ravage, but to my knowledge it is only those five who are definitely connected. Going on the original tech specs, Transmetal 2 Owl Prowl was meant to be the same guy as G1, although it was left open enough to suggest he just had a deep admiration for G1 Prowl and tried to emulate him in all ways.
     
  4. Chris McFeely

    Chris McFeely Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2004
    Posts:
    4,480
    News Credits:
    22
    Trophy Points:
    222
    Likes:
    +56
    Specifically, though, it should be noted that the Matrices in JP-BW are "Energon Matrices," which are different things to the Matrix of Leadership.
     
  5. Soundwave2

    Soundwave2 Excitement! My Style!!!

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2005
    Posts:
    4,010
    News Credits:
    9
    Trophy Points:
    212
    Likes:
    +34
    Pretty hard with him being Thrust later on
     
  6. Sol Fury

    Sol Fury The British Butcher Administrator News Staff

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2002
    Posts:
    35,576
    News Credits:
    4
    Trophy Points:
    317
    Likes:
    +34
    Facebook:
    Instagram:
    Waspinator's not Shrapnel, he just hit his head one time and thought he was Shrapnel.
     
  7. Lumpy

    Lumpy Taylor Swift Actionmaster Super Mod

    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2002
    Posts:
    18,924
    News Credits:
    29
    Trophy Points:
    292
    Likes:
    +33
    i believe that was true too, wasnt it?
     
  8. Mr.Sci-Fi

    Mr.Sci-Fi Bite my shiny Metal (_l_)

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2003
    Posts:
    870
    News Credits:
    3
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Likes:
    +3
    These questions are one of the reasons they should have never tried to link Trukk to Monkey.
     
  9. Rurudyne

    Rurudyne Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2007
    Posts:
    214
    Trophy Points:
    56
    Likes:
    +0
    I'm pretty sure that Ironhide and Prowl died in the '86 movie so they can't have been reformatted into a Maximals — at least not in the American cartoon continuum.
     
  10. Star Cracker

    Star Cracker Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2003
    Posts:
    1,116
    Trophy Points:
    177
    Likes:
    +2
    thing is, I believe that Furman stated BW kind of chose what elements of the various G1 continuities that they liked, so Prowl and Ironhide aren't dead in every G1 continuity.
     
  11. smkspy

    smkspy is one nice fucking kitty

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2004
    Posts:
    20,316
    Trophy Points:
    322
    Likes:
    +80
    Even if they were dead, its not like Transformers don't go back from the dead every other minute. I always liked the idea of BW Prowl being G1 Prowl despite the Prowl toy being pretty bad.
     
  12. Bryan

    Bryan ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2005
    Posts:
    9,020
    Trophy Points:
    211
    Likes:
    +0
    Definitely. I personally loved the idea of Magnaboss being three of the most renowned G1 heroes: Ironhide, Prowl, and Silverbolt (with the Fuzor Silverbolt bearing his name, much like Primal and Prime or BW and G1 Megs. Same for TM2 Prowl).

    The Tripredacus council being established as having a senior leadership position made it even better for me to have a Maximal paralell. And I always wondered what might have happened to the other Aerialbots--if they went their own ways after the War, or if the older gestalts were outlawed as in the War Within stories.
     
  13. Bryan

    Bryan ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2005
    Posts:
    9,020
    Trophy Points:
    211
    Likes:
    +0
    Really?

    I thought that tie, even though it was a little inconsistent at times, was hands down one of the best parts of BW. Really brought us full circle--and yeah, there are questions about it, but hell, when hasn't that been the case with Transformers fiction?
     
  14. Mr.Sci-Fi

    Mr.Sci-Fi Bite my shiny Metal (_l_)

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2003
    Posts:
    870
    News Credits:
    3
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Likes:
    +3
    Nope because if you tie BW to G1 you have to go with BM and that had a horrible ending. Yeah the end of a really cool race of giant robots was to become organic with their plant, I just do't like the ending at all.
     
  15. domientius

    domientius Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2007
    Posts:
    717
    Trophy Points:
    101
    Likes:
    +0
    G1 had a lot of loose ends. Columbo would have an aneurysm with the show.

    Such as a lot of the human characters. Raoul vanishes almost as fast as he shows up, Sparkplug just disappears... did he die between S2 and the movie? Dr Arkeville we can assume was parylized.. then we have the girl who loved Powerglide, whom one would assume to be a good ally tot he Autobots as she was rich, but... no mention again.

    Or odd crap like the prehistoric island, the time cave back to Camelot...

    Then that "Hasbroverse" crap which can't work at all even with massive retconning and ignoring of certain visual and plot elements. Even loosely fitting TF and GI Joe(assuming that ALL GI Joe eps take place prior to the 1984 awakening), there's the matter of why all the laser blasters vanished and went back to bullet firing weapons... and forget sticking COPS into continuity as-is. Funny that no one would make even a passing mention of giant transforming robots in the year 2020.

    Then there was that other show, but I could say that Hector Ramirez, in an investigative report on drugs, did LSD to experience the effects first-hand and hallucinated the whole thing.

    I try not to think too hard on continuity issues like this as the writers didn't seem to put a lot of effort into it at the time.
     
  16. Dropshot

    Dropshot Transform your destiny

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2007
    Posts:
    2,750
    News Credits:
    4
    Trophy Points:
    151
    Likes:
    +4
    I think we always have to tie in things by ourselves, Sol explained a lot of things. Also it doesn't change tha fact that Beast Wars rocked.
     
  17. trebleshot

    trebleshot www.Toyark.com Veteran

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2006
    Posts:
    2,611
    News Credits:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    186
    Likes:
    +2
    I treat all of the GIJoe/Transformers matchups as alternate universes, similar to Marvel's "What If...?" and DC's "Vertigo" brands. Not really in continuity with anything else.

    And, like everything else within the fandom, we can choose to ignore any particular part that we don't like. So if Beast Machines isn't for you, then it didn't happen. BW ended where the show says it ended.

    For me, I like the connection between G1 and BW (even given the flaws), but don't care for the ending to BM, so I consider it an alternate timeline to G1/BW.
     
  18. Rurudyne

    Rurudyne Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2007
    Posts:
    214
    Trophy Points:
    56
    Likes:
    +0
    This is all the aftermath of irresponsible use of the Toykai power (the ultimate power up beyond Bankai (Bleach), SS-4 (DB-GT) and a raised debt ceiling (Congress)).

    At any rate, GiJoe crossing over to Transformers isn't something we can just lay at the feet of Sunbow or Marvel (never mind the Spiderman crossover) as someone upstairs had to imagine that it was all a good idea.

    If it weren't for one Season 3 episode (where Cobra Commander actually shows up) we wouldn't even be having this conversation about the G1 Cartoon ... that, or maybe I was just lucky enough to avoid seeing those crossover episodes.

    Still, like Highlander 2, the damage has been done.

    The easiest way to contend with it all is just to ignore Marvel Comics for both GiJoe and Transformers. If you only deal with the different cartoon series you have much less cross contamination and it becomes easier to cope with. After all, the exact nature of Cobra in the Season 3 episode isn't revealed. Even the Cobra tech used against the Autobots is off from the way it appeared in the actual GiJoe cartoon.

    So something like Cobra and GiJoe existed in the background of the G1 cartoon; but, these were apparently unimportant to either the Bots of Cons ... 'no mechanoid life forms involved' to borrow and adapt a rather disgraceful phrase.
     
  19. Rotorstorm

    Rotorstorm OriginalRotorstorm Fanboy

    Joined:
    Oct 29, 2004
    Posts:
    10,854
    News Credits:
    3
    Trophy Points:
    287
    Likes:
    +106
    Ebay:
    it was talking like that that made hasbro decide transtech was a bad idea
     
  20. Lord Of Tetris

    Lord Of Tetris Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2002
    Posts:
    3,409
    Trophy Points:
    207
    Likes:
    +6
    Well, I'll try to answer your questions as literally as I feel is possible. Also, I have never seen the Japanese series, but from what I'm told, the series were not as good, and lacked continuity, with the American Beast series.

    The easy answer is: we're probably putting more thought into this than the writers did. Moreover, maybe the writers intentionally left things vague about the Matrix and the Primes, so that they could bring in Prime or the Matrix in later seasons. No reason to state he's alive or dead, so they might have wanted to keep that bridge unburned.

    So Optimus Prime is either alive or dead at the (present) time of Beast Wars (before Primal traveled back in time). If Prime is dead, the show offers no answers to how that happened. I guess we can assume Prime passed the Matrix to someone else, and now someone else is the Matrix-carrying leader of the Autobots/Maximals.

    If Optimus is alive, then I guess we can assume he's still the Matrix-carrier.

    Considering that the real leader of the Autobots/Maximals never makes himself known in the series, we really don't know if it's Optimus or Some Other Prime. Remember, Primal was just commander of the crew of the Axalon. Personally, I'd like to think G1 Prime is dead at that time. I think it's only natural that characters live and die and not be stuck in a never-ending series. American BW did a great job showing us that change is good, and it just sits better to have a completely new cast with G1 Prime long dead.

    Moreover, there are statues of Prime on Cybertron. And Primal and Megatron regard Prime as such a legendary, mythical figure, it's more like they met a long-dead legend than someone they would see all the time on Cybertron.
     

Share This Page