the irony of what this thread is turning into is amazing

 

Why are you and so many others so determined to prove that it IS sexualising and objectifying?

It's ONLY sexualising and objectifying, if that is how you want to see it. Whether the artist intended it that way or not is irrelevant. If YOU want to SEE it in a sexualising and objectifying manner, then that is exactly how you will see it. Plain and simple. Doesn't mean it is, or has to be that way to everyone. Which is why those of us that do not see it in a sexualising or objectifying manner are denying the fact that it is or even could be.

 

Why are so many people Trying to do the opposite (mostly cause ether bored).

To speak for myself, I'm Arguing it because its not there IMO, its a another example of Knee jerk Complaining you see so often form the Tumblr crowd.

BS on the same level as People complaining Jazz is "Black" an Drift is "Japanese".

Id like to keep that BS ideolgy out of my beloved transformers unless a legitimate argument can be made that will lead to some thing positive on one side or the other.

(I.E Female Transformers should there be Female transformers or not? Yes yes there should. You don't agree, why? I respect your opinion but disagree,

Additionally i think the art is rather nice very detailed, and flamewar is adorable,




this should not be shitted on because some people cant handle "tits" on a robot

 

Just because less people will read this comic doesn't make it a non-issue, in my opinion.  
Yes, if RID and MTMTE did this there might be more outrage, but in the end what matters (to me) is that the portrayal of female characters in this comic is simply outdatedand needs to go, unless the character portrayed is intentionally seductive (Cybertron Thunderblast could fit that bill).

is that this comic is made for Botcon - for the more hardcore fans. I'll 'defend' that Transformers, for all the obvious reasons is a 'boy franchise' and that logically it will always attract more guys than girls, no matter what they do with it. But you bet that among us hardcore fans the ratio of women is higher, and it's kind of sad that (like most comics, sadly) characters of their gender are portrayed like this.

Again, just in case, I'd like to make clear that I don't want to make this an attsck on the artist - as silly as this all is he DOES come from a different culture. But somebody should definitely have caught this in an early stage and said 'let's not do this'.  

What? No!
Sorry, but a character hanging on a balcony and putting her ass up in the air, or a character holding her leg up so high are definitely sexualising poses, and your argument is an outright fallacy.
I'll let the 'motion lines around boobs' go, but as Coffee already noted: had the artist wanted to covey motion, and motion only, in that panel he would not have drawn lines around the breasts like that.

Did the artist mean to sexualize? Yes.
Did the artist mean to objectify? Probably not, but again: cultural differences, and if the artist is not aware of this the editor of this book should have been!

You can't deny what's happening because you don't care/see it, or say things like 'others don't mind, so what's the big deal?' That's first class denial, right there. Replace the sexism with racism and see how fast that argument falls apart.  


One last thing though, since I know how easy it is becomes to lump people into two opposing factions: I do not condone or agree with femmebotfangirl calling the artist a pedophile. That's going way too fucking far.

 

Heres the thing, this isn't a Portrayal, a Portrayal would be her personality.

Looking "Sexy" Doesn't say any thing about any thing, it doesn't say if the characters good or bad, unless the anatomy screwed up it dosen't say any thing about the quality of the art.

What dose this change really? dose the Mere fact that some one some where might find this pose hot really change any thing? Hell if flame wars chest piece looked more like straight up kibble no one would attribute her poses to being sexy

As an anime fan i appreciate this level of Calmness, and open mindedness

 

It's really easy for a guy to say all this you know.

 

Don't go there.

If you do i can see exactly how this thread will go. its not a pleasant place.

 

Tumblr is made up mostly of women and minorities who are underrepresented in the mainstream media and culture. When people accuse tumblr of this sort of thing what are really saying is 'goddamn those women etc. complaining about the shit they get put through in one of the few places they can freely air their grievances'.
funny how it is usually only people who have never been objectified and sexualised in their entire life, certainly not every damn day like most women, who think this is a non-issue.

As to spreading it here, what you're actually saying is you don't want people who aren't men complaining about things which affect them which you get to ignore because you aren't affected by them.

Really this thread about such a minor moment of objectification in an obscure comic really shows how twisted a lot of faboys priorities are.

You already took it there, you and the others who dismissed the feelings of women and others on tumblr just because you don't see the problem. This whole topic is male privilege 101 and you don't get to suddenly shut it down just because it is being called out.

 

1 I'm black, So complaining to me about how you feel Unrepresented, in media when i can't Spit with out hitting a strong independent lady , yet I still get scraps doesn't fly with me.

2. I Too Could Walk around Being Pissed off about little things trying to blow them into a Big deal, i don't because I grew out of that a long time ago. I realized That not Every thing is a civil Rights issue, Not every Black character i See has to be Smart and defy all stereotypes, i realized tat hey some times things just aren't a big deal. If you look for things to be mad about you will always find them even if there not there, this is a good example.

3. Tumblr Is mostly made up of Teenaged white girls, who Don't know half of what they talk about, and use social justice issues as a way to fit in.

4. I don't want o go there Because Once you Bring Up Male Exploitation, Certain parties start , back tracking, start becoming hypocrites. Start using every Excuses they can about how its different. It Gets ugly, nothing gets resolved, Because Nether side will give any credence to the other, even though both sides have valid opinions on this matter (Thinking That some thing as arbitrary as gender means an opinion Matter more or less on any issue is garbage pure and simple, and is far more damaging to the whole social issue then Flame war's hypothetical jiggle).

Yes There is a gender imbalance, yes it sucks. But sorry A robot That Looks "sexy" IS a huge non factor to the whole thing that any real feminist would get pissed off we were giving it this much discussion.

I Don't Think Being a women means your opinion Doesn't matter on this issue.

Going "Your guy" Doesn't Rob My Questions of there validity, It just looks Like an Avoidance Tactic.

We are all Intelligent Human Beings Lets converse as such as equals About this comic, and leave the talk of "privilege" out of it. Because Your not gonna get me to back down just cause you think me being a guy who likes the female body some how invalidates me from this discussion.

 

1. You still have male privilege, but I wouldn't lecture you on black representation in the media. The 'Strong Female' is a problem in itself, a trope. Instead of getting a wide range of female characters we get handed a few token Strong Women that still exist in predominately male casts.

2. Sticking your head in the sand, the perfect response to institutional oppression. No one is asking for perfect characters either, spare us your ridiculous strawman arguments.

3. No, it isn't actually. Most are 18-35, most have a college education and minorities and women are more hihgly represented in any other social media.

4. You don't want to go there because you woudl rather defend a few stupid comic panels then accept that women actually have something to complain about the way they are represented.

If you want to converse as equals then you have to accept that our experiences are not equal. I can't tell you how your experience intersects with things like racism, you can't tell me how my experiences intersect with sexism.

 

one of the best threads in the history of this site

This has turned from shit to amazing  

 

I'm glad that a reasonable reaction to some stupid comic panels followed by a concerted effort to silence people who are negatively impacted by it is so amusing to you.

 

Oh great More buzz words.

1. Like how you changed your post real quick. Go ahead an lecture me, the likely hood you have seen things that i haven't, your skin color doesn't make your opinion or Experiences and less valid. I'll help Tell me what you think about Jazz, The ROTF Twins? Epps,are there any Transformers you would peg as black with out it being obvious. Whose your favorite black character in media? do you have one . Answer Truthfully i won't judge demean or combat your opinion ( i might sound aggressive here I want to assure u i'm not trying to I want to hear your thoughts as an equal.) PM me if you want.

2. Don't Attack my Integrity I'm not doing it to you (and I could). I'm not sticking my head in the sand or ignoring it. But Flamewar having tits isn't oppression. The pay gap is oppression, The shit Fox news talks about Hillary Clinton is Oppression, There are real issues to these things. And then there are thigns you have to work really hard to make seem like its some big injustice, The topic we are on and the one we should return to are the latter.

3. Tumblrs a Big Site so unless ther of us can pulls up official demographics its pointless. But I know what i have seen. And my statement about them using Social justice as a clique and as a outlet for attention stands. Try offering an opinion that doesn't fit the hive mind perfectly and watch how fast you get attacked

4.a No I don't Want to go there cause it derails the topic, invites allot of nastiness, and ignorance. Women Do have legitimate Complains, But not all Complaints are legitimate. Before you can ask "What gives me the right to decide whats legitimate" This is a forum, and I have an opinion like every one else, the same right that lets you decide this is worth arguing about

4.b Your right Our Experiences aren't Equal but are opinions are because, we are no t blind. A View from the outside can often be just as clear then one from the inside, It is from these views intersecting that that truth can be seen clearly and progress can be made. Only a fool thinks that only his experiences matter, its called solipsism. The fact that you think my Experiences invalidate me in the conversation means you will never see me as an equal. and that is root of many problems in this world.

How are you negatively impacted by it.

What harm has been done to you, did it injure you? did it change your day in any way.

How has it impacted you?

 

That's your average porn manga artist. I'm hardly surprised.

I am more surprised that someone did hire him and accepted the comic.

Still, given its pure trainwreck factor... It is hilarious, in a way.

It's bad. It's hilariously stupid and bad. Like collecting Liefield work bad. Or Pat Lee pretending he can draw bad. Not badly drawn at all, but the content makes it as bad.

Now I need this comic. Because it's THAT stupid.


I'm always amazed with people tendencies to sexualize giant fighting mecha.

 

This could all have been avoided if you just admitted that you like Flamewar's tits.

 

Jee-zus Christ, you two.

Some people think the art is really good regardless
Most people think that some of it is offensive no matter
people think in different ways
opinions are opinions
the end

but

the biggest thing is

YOU PEOPLE TURNED A THREAD ABOUT FLAMEWAR INTO AN ACTUAL FLAME WAR

See, this is why this thread has become absolute comedy gold, at least to me  

 

I'm sorry, the second you said Tumblr was the second I quit taking you seriously, that website really is probably the worst invention because people who are "oppressed" whine and bitch about things all day for no reason except to entertain others with the same misguided mindset

Seriously, this is just a convention comic, there is no reason to get offended by it. if this offends you well lord knows anything Gainax has made since gunbuster would make your mind explode from rage.

is the robots drawn sexually? yes, because that is how the artist knew how to draw females. its just a cultural thing. should it change? yeah sure but will it, probably not. this comic IS REALLY TAME and is a complete non-issue and this is why the continuing push for more fembots leads down the wrong path, because it brings out the pervs who just want more fembots to fap to (i still swear to this day that is why the female choice for the fan choice bot got chosen though I will flat out say I have no shred of evidence to prove that) and it also brings people who look down on said people and like "HOW DARE YOU OBJECTIFY OR SEXUALIZE THESE STRONG, PROUD FEMALE TRANSFORMERS". There is no winning this. the only good thing is it got us a few more female transformer toys and that is it

is there anything wrong with transformers being female, absolutely not, but i think this current push from the fandom is a bit misguided

I still hate wingblade with every fiber of my being, but still glad we are getting that awesome chromia and arcee toys

also this thread is REALLY making me wanting to get botcon flamewar because that is a really good deco and she is adorable in the comic

 

Coffee, will you ever stop being amazing?

 

he is the best part of the entire thread

 

I'm not sure you know what buzz words are.

1. I don't see any of the 'bots you mention as being black particularly, but then I'm not black. If someone who is thinks it ties into racist stereotypes I'm not going to argue with them over it. Hm my favourite black character in media would probably be Zoe from Firefly followed by Abbie from Sleepy Hollow.

2. Flamewar having tits is not oppression. Flamewar being depicted in poses to highlight her sexual characteristics in a manner which men are not both in the same comic and in general is. It is a problem with female representation in general, we are hugely underrepresented and much of our representation is sexualised. I'm not going to sit there and say Flamewars treatment in this comic is a big problem, but it ties into a big problem. Flamewar is one example of something that plagues female representation.

3. Here you go. One of many such articles you can find. Sure there are examples of people using social justice for attention. There are also racist feminists, transphobic feminists, neonazis and others. But mostly it is people who are under represented and/or oppressed by mainstream society talking about it one of the few places where they can do so without being silenced.

4. Fair point, but the topic has already been derailed the moment people decided they were going to dismiss the opinions of the people who found this art objectionable. I mean I don't care if most people look at that art and don't give a shit, it's not like it is a big issue. What I don't like is people, especially epople who aren't affected by it (men), telling people who are they are wrong.

I just want to enjoy my hobby without seeing women in it reduced to sextoys for men to ogle, that's all.