Fuel cell vehicles no longer just a concept?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by CheetahDC, Sep 18, 2006.

  1. CheetahDC

    CheetahDC Well-Known Member

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    http://www.caranddriver.com/carnews/11655/2008-chevrolet-equinox-fuel-cell.html So next year, General Motors plans on putting 100 of these Chevy Equinox fuel cell cars on the road. They'll be available for three-month loan plans in three test market cities: LA, NYC, and DC.

    Wouldn't want to try and merge onto a freeway with these though: 0-60 in 12 seconds. But they're working on it! I'm not sure if hydrogren fuel-cells are the "thing" to help us get away from gasoline, as there are quite a few possibilities I think. However, I think it's neat and research into alternative fuels is a good thing.
     
  2. Altercron

    Altercron Well-Known Member

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    oooo coolness. Makes me wanna move to NYC just so I can drive one of these babies
     
  3. artiepants

    artiepants Just over here punching Unicron.

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    I read the article, and i'm not sure i entirely understand the process, but it sure sounds cool!
     
  4. Chaos Muffin

    Chaos Muffin Misadventure Veteran

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    That's pretty cool, was expecting a little Mr. Bean car


    Can imagine someone telling our great grandkids that people used to put gasoline in their cars and we had to drive on roads.
     
  5. funkatron101

    funkatron101 TFW2005 Supporter

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    We were supposed to have space cars in the year 2000. I want my space car.
     
  6. Shipwreck

    Shipwreck Will smack your bitch

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    How much does it cost to refill?
     
  7. thefrozenred

    thefrozenred 4 8 15 16 23 42

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    If you can find a place to refuel you? Less than gas. I forget the exact numbers, but there's no reason it should cost anywhere NEAR the same price.
     
  8. Darkravager

    Darkravager Zombie Hunter

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    I dunno. It can only run 200 miles on a tank, AND you can only go 50,000 before you have to replace the fuel cell, which I can't imagine would be cheap. It's a good start though.
     
  9. nkelsch

    nkelsch Do you know this Icon? TFW2005 Supporter

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    Here is the problem with Fuel cells... It takes more units of energy from OTHER sources to make a single unit of energy for the fuel cell.

    So lets say I get a fuel cell that has 100 units of energy... It took 200 units of Gasoline (or another energy source) to make that 100 units of hydrogen.

    So 50,000 miles of Fuel cell... If you took the ENERGY used to make that cell it would be 100,000 worth of gasoline.

    So until Hydrogen fuel cells are more energy efficiant to make, they are not going to be a valid alternative from a COST or ENERGY INDEPENDANCE.

    So this is where the HYDROGEN HOUSE comes into play. Since MAKING hydrogen cells is not an energy efficiant process... we can use a source of energy where that is unlimited and wasted currently. In the Hydrogen House Model... Your hose has SOLAR PANELS that collect energy. Instead of normal solar power where it is stored in a battery or a turbine and you use it, 100% of the solar power is used to extract Hydrogen from water and charge batteries.

    This means at all times your house is charing a fuelcell. Which eliminates the need for using other energy sources to MAKE fuelcells.

    Eventually when solar power becomes more efficiant... it will charge hydrongen fuelcells faster and better, which means you may be able to run your house of a fuelcell.

    Fuelcells alone are not a pathway to cheap alternative energy as it is totally dependant on other energy sources.
     
  10. funkatron101

    funkatron101 TFW2005 Supporter

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    yer smart.
     
  11. Zeta Otaku

    Zeta Otaku Who ya gonna call? TFW2005 Supporter

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    What happened to just walking?

    -hops on his desiel powered segway of hypocracy and scoots off into the sunset... then dies-
     
  12. Dalarsco

    Dalarsco Kickback=ROCK

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    Distance happened.
     
  13. Zeta Otaku

    Zeta Otaku Who ya gonna call? TFW2005 Supporter

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    Distance sucks! Lets boycott distance!
     
  14. Pravus Prime

    Pravus Prime Sorcerer

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    Very good.

    You also forgot some of the other benefits of Hydrogen Fuel Cells. Left alone, the hydrogen will escape, which means if you leave your full tank parked vehicle, you can come back to an empty tank. In addition, it makes storage difficult.

    There is also no good way to harvest Hydrogen, especially in the volumes needed for a mass transit system. The result is that Hydrogen is expensive to make.

    It's also nearly impossible to detect hydrogen fires. In addition, it's easy to ignite. You can have a hydrogen fire and not know it until your reach to touch the tank and burn your hand off.

    Also, there's been Hydrogen fuel cell cars on the roads for years. I've ridden in them. While it's great, it's also unpractical, especially given the alternatives; it's like NASA in 1969 deciding the way to get to the moon is to use the Warp Drive.

    There's a far better, safer, and tried and true system out there, and it's far cheaper, and there's an already existing infrastructure to support it. It's electric cars. They're far safer, easier to charge, and cheaper. They're more reliable and easier to repair as well. They're perfectly suitable for 90% of the population with ease. In addition, with PHEVs, or Plug In Hybrid Electric Vehicles, which already exist as well, which work like an electric car until the battery is drained, then runs like a hybrid electric vehicle after that, with a plug to recharge the vehicle at night.

    Sorry, I'm an automotive editor and Hybrid owner. :drunk 
     
  15. CheetahDC

    CheetahDC Well-Known Member

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    Hm. I guess my excitement got the better of me. But I think we can all agree that advancing research is a good thing, eh?
     
  16. nkelsch

    nkelsch Do you know this Icon? TFW2005 Supporter

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    I am sorry, but the electric car lobby has lots of miss-information and propaganda out there. Car batteries (lead) are one of the most dangerous and toxic forms of polution on the planet and is really destroying 3rd world countries. (research the international lead recycling industry)

    Many, if not most of the current Batteries in hybrids on the road today are still lead or nickel metal hydride batteries. The only reason why electic cars are not a 'ecological disaster' right now is because of the low number of hybrids on the road. If 90% of the popultion right now had hybrids, the lead poisoning from the disposed batteries (remember, you have to replace about 500 lbs of batteries every 5 years per car) would be overwhelming.

    And Lead recycling is not an answer because even when recycled, the process is usually done overseas and unregulated ways... Lead can not only be toxic but if it gets into an unmonitored water system could effect them health and mental wellbeing of whole populations... and this is being done in third world countires where whole villages are being poisoned without knowing.

    Nickel and Lithium are both toxic, but not to the extent of lead, and both require extensive recycling infastrucuture to be viable... which means we are still dependant on the international battery recycling industry which is horrible.

    The Hydrongen fuel cell eliminates the need for horribly toxic batteries. If we are looking for alternative fuel sources... let's pick one that isn't going to be worse for the enviroment than the one we currently have. Right now it is not cost effective or easy to refine. Doesn't mean the technology should be abandoned.

    Makes petrolium-based technologies not look so bad huh? Better than lead poisoning millions of africans in and dooming generations 50 years from now to live with brain damage from unregulated international battery recycling IMHO.
     
  17. Mad Dawg

    Mad Dawg Autobot Brewmeister

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    Bio-diesel is looking better and better each day. My buddy down in Austin is already sold (he drives a Jeep Liberty CRD and his wife drives a Volkswagen Bug TDI), and the fact that he made it to Dallas from Austin on a 1/4 tank of B-100 (takes me 3/4) was just damn impressive. I need to make him a bumpersticker that reads, "Eat more french fries, I need more fuel!"



    Of course at the end of the day it is ALL about the Mr. Fusion! :) 
     
  18. funkatron101

    funkatron101 TFW2005 Supporter

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    Biodiesel has increase nitrogen oxide levels that are harmful. Plus it doesn't really work to well in low temps due to it thickening.
     
  19. Mad Dawg

    Mad Dawg Autobot Brewmeister

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    We live in Texas. I just won't drive that day. :) 
     
  20. nkelsch

    nkelsch Do you know this Icon? TFW2005 Supporter

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    Also considering Lead technology is still the cheapest and industry is pusing stuff like the "lead metal foam core" batteries instead of the Li-Ion And we still have whole contries like CANADA that export 100% of their battery recycling to other countries... Anything based on a battery seems like a horrible technology.

    And Hybrids are a city technology as distance driving uses the combustion engine, not the battery. My sister has a Hybrid and gets 33 MPH as she does almost *ALL* highway driving... the complete wrong application for her situation.

    Batteries are not energy... Electricity still means other fuel technologies.

    Hydrogen gives hopes of applying 'free' and 'clean' energy into a portable application. Let's hope that overuse of Hydrogen technology doesn't over nitrate our atmosphere to toxic levels like some scientists believe. (a natural byproduct which if too much could potentially destroy the planet says scientists)

    Flintstones cars anyone? Powered by dinosaurs!!!
     

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