First off, I have to say - You go, girl, with your mod powers! Bring that funk!

Okay, this thread took a pretty polemic turn very quickly. I'm just curious - for those here who think that rap is simply "a bunch of crap by people who know how to rhyme," have you actually spent time sitting down, practicing and rehearsing the art of flow and rhyme? Verbal flow and rhyme is much more difficult than y'all are suggesting here; you're essentially teaching your brain to act like a drumset with consonants and vowels. To trivialize flow and rhyme by saying "It's just a bunch of rhyming, anyone can do it!" Is like saying "It's just like picking up a trumpet and playing Satchmo, anyone can do it!"

Now, that's simply factual clarification. It's not a levied opinion.

If you want my opinion, you shouldn't use a few polar examples from a musical genre to come up with a broad opinion about that entire genre. The result is obvious in this thread: Broad generalizations make you sound very ignorant. Congratulations, you're obviously uninformed!

There are noticeable exceptions in EVERY genre of music, rap included. To those who are trashing on rap as an entire genre, have you ever listened to Jurassic 5 or any of the LOCAL rap that comes out of your local college radio station? Have a listen and check your opinion at the door. You'd be surprised at the amount of verbal flow, actual instrumental set work and "back to basics" musicality goes into making rap music sound pounding, rhythmic and fun.

Yeah, there's some overplayed crap out there in rap - but there is in all genres. So STFU about the Top 40 garbage. We all know it's garbage.

 

This is my point of view on the matter.

Music is music. If you can take 3 rocks, slap them together, and it comes out with a sound that influences someone, then its music.

To me, sampling is music. Sampling oriented producers are musicians too. But to each his own.

However, most rap today does NOT SAMPLE ANYTHING. After the late 80s and 90s sampling craze, and the lawsuits that followed, producers responsible for making the tracks the artists and record companies published moved away from sampling, and began playing their own instruments, and programming their own drum lines.

Programming a drumline, by most mainstream producers, involves doing so IN REAL TIME. This requires skill. He uses his fingers, you use your drumsticks. He has sounds of drums, you have the skins that cover your drum sets.

Once a good set of drumlines are recorded, they pick and choose the best ones, and usually only use a couple to comprise the backbone of the song.

If you ever get signed, they will do the same exact thing to your "real" drum recordings. ON A COMPUTER. All of your individual band mates will play their parts 20 times, be recorded 20 times, and some guy sitting at a computer will take the best 10 seconds segments from each and mix them together into one song.

On top of this, most rap producers are responsible for the ENTIRE SONG. So they create the drumline, they do all the various keyboards, they play guitar, horns, and whatever else. IF they arent, they are overseeing and directing those who are. They also are responsible for recording the artist, and doing initial mixdowns. Most non-radio rap is 100% played and "produced" by the rap producer.

To say that person is not a muscian is rediculous IMO.

This doesn't even include the acutal RAPPER, who is responsible for creating cohesive poetry specifically designed to flow togehther with what that producer just created.

The end result is music. A series of sounds and/or words flowing togehter that causes a response in another human being.

And to get there, with rap music, or hip hop or electronic oriented music, takes talent, therefore making those people musicians.


Sooooo... to go back to why I think your statement is rediculous....

<b>Yeah, but, hip hop is pitiful, idiotic, and made by morons for morons. </B>

To generalize about anything as broad as a form of music in those terms is rediculous in any matter. If you judged rock based on the garbage on the radio you would get the same response from a rap head.


<b>Anybody can take someone else's music, and then do a Dr. Suess impression over it about how cool it is to be from the ghetto, be ignorant, violent, shoot people and steal things.</b>

I explained how rap music is not done this way producing wise above. As far as lyrical content, I dont think it's easy to actually put the words together in that way and have it sound GOOD, BUT, that content you speak of is far too widespread right now and I don't like it either.

<b>And people actually pay money for it. I think record companies could make farm animal sounds a #1 hit if they pushed it on enough stupid people.</b>

I agree.

<b>Rap=garbage; learn to WRITE A SONG or PLAY AN INSTRUMENT. Taking other people's doesn't count.</b>

They do, and they play AKAI MPCs, Korgs, Moogs, Touch Pads, Technics, and many their own drums, guitars, and horns, all into some kind of computer system, from Fruity Loops to ACID to Soundforge to Pro Tools, and maintain those - many of which are used in Rock to track and compile the final song as well.

Thats my 2 cents.

 

dude, its hard to rock and rhyme, its hard to rock and rhyme, its tricky.

 

man this thread is garbage. locked by the time I get home from work I'm sure.

 

Rap is still hacked together nonsense. Sitting at a pc looping noises together does not mean you are playing music. There's a huge difference. And as far as sequencing tracks for a band goes, that's done if your band sucks, sure, like many modern rock bands like godsmack and the like, but if your band is actually GOOD then you bust the tracks out in 2-3 takes to a metronome, it's good, then you move on.

As far as your sampled digital music, a person can whip out 5 tracks a day of that fluff with any basic program or an mtv music generator. It's quite insulting to those of us that have taken the time to actually know how to play music; that someone can just take a program and manipulate existing sounds to emulate songwriting. Once you've been on a stage, playing your own music from thin air, you'll know the difference quick. I understand ProTools, it's what takes pitiful bands and lets the producer manipulate the songs until they sound like a real band. Most bands have to use it in the studio, and I hate it. There was a time when people had to rely on their own talent to make music, now anyone with a pc can pretend they too are musicians.

btw, just for the record, I listened to some of the tracks on this site, they are terrible. It sounds like they were built by a 12 yr old, and certainly some of the WORST choices for drumbeats I've ever heard. I know you think you are some great musician, but trust me, these songs sound like they constructed by someone who doesn't play music. It's not something I would exactly be proud of, if I were you. It's kind of embarrasing. Like something someone attempted when they were 10, but then moved on to something real, you just never moved on. It's fine for what it is, but you seem to thinkyou've got a lot more going on here than you do. Reality check, please.

But that's fine, most of the world is content with DJs and the like pumping out fake music anyway. Good bands are becoming a lost art, replaced by amateur hack job djs, uneducated rappers, and producers with pcs making the equivalent of video game music. Once you've had 200 people cheering for you and buying merchandise, then you'll know the difference.

And yes, I suppose you could say hitting 3 rocks together could be music.

But then again, you also have to realize that you are only HITTING 3 ROCKS TOGETHER. It's not the same as playing a crafted song made by a person's own mind.

So have fun editing your little transformers themes, but know that you are not a musician, only an editor, and while your site is only mediocre because you're more concerned with your cute little "tracks" ) I honestly laughed several times while trying to get through some of those "songs". You need a bit of a reality check; just because you have about 2,000 TF fans kissing your butt does not mean you are a decent songwriter.

Dj. Sampler. Sequencing. Pshh. Tools of the amatuers and wannabes. If you'd like to come and open for my band, you know, play a REAL SHOW, please do. I'd love to hear what you can actually do in person, you know, without your cheater tools and samples. EVer notice when one of these editor-types is challenged, they have to spend about 2 days attempting to convince people they are real musicians? It's always funny to watch it. It's like watching a McDonald's fry cook try to convince me they are a chef.

 

dude its obvious you hate rap music, and nothing or anyone here is going to change your mind. The things you are stating are merely YOUR opinions, not some undebatable fact. After seeing those broad generalizations, it just makes you look closeminded and ignorant.

You say you want people to provide you a legitimate debate...why? You are too biased against rap to even acknowledge any of the valid points people in this thread have made. there is no debating with a brick wall  

in your mind rap=crap...so fine let be

 

I just lost any respect i've ever had for you SP.

Its been a while since i;ve seen anyone quite so up themselves. This site is only basically here in the first place because it was a place for Tony's music, it has since evolved into much more, but thats one of the main reasons this place is even here.

How have you been here for nearly 3 years when you have such a low opinion of the place, its creator and its operators? You've shown open contempt for all of them through out this thread.

If you hate everything so much, why the hell are you here?...

 

I come here because the sightings posts are decent. Then, I usually browse around before gettting irritated about something that one of the abusive mods says, like just blatant cursing and then booting people for far less or the exact same thing I've seen them do, particularly Twin Twist or Kickback. I swear these boards seem so assholish that it seems like 1/2 the people here don't even LIKE TFs.

And "lost respect for me"? What respect did you ever have for me? We've never spoken, never met, yet you "respect" me? I could be some sicko murderer for all you know; you can't just blindly respect everything in the world, that's ridiculous.

 

blah blah blah

Try saying something that has a little import or meaning. I grow tired of these empty responses.

 

Cause he's an idiot, that's why.

 

'Lost any respect i've ever had' is a phrase, it does not imply familiarity or indeed even actual respect, it merely states that any respect i may have had for you has gone becuase of your behavious in this thread. But thats just symantics. I was simply trying to politely point out that in my opinion you're not acting very well in this thread. Prehaps i should have chosen different words.

There are plently of good sigthings threads in a variety of other boards i'm sure. If peoples behaviour here is so abhorent to you, prehaps you should look into going elsewhere for your information, where you'll be less offended by the other members and moderators...

 

Here's what I'm talking about.

I take the time to articulate thoughts and reason, giving articulate detailed explanations on music, and I behaving badly, yet Jet Convoy can just say "I'm an idiot" and that's just fine. Yet, although "I'm an idiot" JetConvoy has yet to say one thing that has any meaning or sense at all, or to even make me think he's anything more than a 7 yr old special ed student. Have you even read your own posts, JConvoy? Perhaps it's not me that's the idiot.

ps, I'm certainly not the only person that is of the opinion that this site sucks and is full of conceited jerks. This site is quickly becoming a joke online, and that lame-o sample fest of pretend music isn't helping things.

So have fun kissing "Tony B's" ass, everyone, I'll actually go have fun reading about TFs on sites that have good archives and info, then I may play some music or come up with a real song. I'm sure this thread will go on for awhile with people desperately trying to validate their hack-job music genres and self worth. I supppose they need to, because the music sure isn't doing it.

Here's the thing, I'll probably get "in trouble" for saying that, but it's just the very same thing I read from mods here everyday, that's the crappy double standards of this place.

I'm going to go paint a TF now. Have fun listening to your fake music and rap, losers.

 

Having had the chance to read this thread in one go, I have to say that it's rather the other way around.   Sure, there are some people that bring up unvalid points, and most that do bring up valid points. You seem to be on the border of those two extremities: You give an unvalid and empty opinion, and then build a well of 'valid' arguments around it. At least the others have valid opinions.  

And let's get one thing straight, before you call me something in the direction of 'admin butt kissing rap lover': I strongly dislike mainstream rap (and I simply HATE 50 Cent) with the exception of Eminem (most of his songs are decent, actually carry a message or are easily recognizable satires), and I do not see the appeal in sampling (but I do respect the musicians that make them). Just so that you know.  

 

Simply put, this thread hasn;t been going well at all, its had few good responses from either side.

But you SP have simply been a stuck up fool, just because you believe something, doesn;t make it so.

So please, go paint your TF and god willing when you come back to the internet it will be to some site that doens;t offend your delicate sensibilities...

 

Why does the song on your MYSpace page sound like David Hasselhoff and Rick Springfield having a hissy fit, circa 1985?

 

He'll be back in a few days.

 

Haha, I knew if I just kept annoying him he would leave. Lesson of the day: sink to the level of your enemies.

 

 

While we're talking about hacks SP. Why don't you stop calling yourself a custom maker when all you do is obvious repaints and simple part swaps. Anyone can look at a Cybertron Hotshot or Starscream and say "Hey that would look good in a red deco with flames," or "Hey, let's do Starscream in all his seeker brothers again, cuz that would be cool." OMG, you made energon shockblast look more like G1 Shockwave cuz you gave him new hands. Take a look at some real kitbashers like Napjr and TFMaster. When you can make kitbashes like them, then call yourself a custom maker. 'Til then, you're just a kitbash rapper, taking old tired ideas, mixing some parts here and there, and calling them customs.

 

yo why is you illin SP? seems t me you be drinking haterade. the bestimus hip hop is dat stuff you, have to be hunting fo. underground and all.

Hip hop is da bestimus muscum cause it be CNN from the street for all the brothas out there.
so Sp is a white boy who be misuninformed on hip hop

To my Man Tony B, keep droppin dem beats.

word!

 

word up! you need to break off some real customizing for dem Tfs give Alt Jazz some new spinners so he can be rollin on 20s. our hook up my man Blaster wit that I tunes Usher exclusives.
you be right Dark magnus, why would any brotha be wanting Tfs painted up in the G1 colors they was supposed to be in? Id rather see em like the was in Ludacriss garage, crib style (YA HUUURRRR)

word to ya matha!