I didnt insult you in any way. You claimed you made a "smart ass" comment that didnt make the post. All I said is that "smart ass comments" are childish and insulting.....and typically they are, unless your working with some other definition for "smart ass. As for my being "smug" that may be because I'm in a lot of pain the last few days. So if I came off that way I'm sorry. See, that doesnt come off as a "smart ass" to me. But that did. Never said smart ass comments ment you were a "weak person" just that its a sign of a weak argument. And I dont take myself too seriously either, if I did I would go mad. As
Well, it would appear that while the Movie itself only IMPLIES that the foregrounded Decepticon is Cyclonus by his placement within the frame, the storyboard seems to clearly state that Bombshell becomes Cyclonus, while undetermined "other decepticons" become the Armada... So the question may be which is considered more definitive... the completed film, or the storyboard? Ultimately, whatever is intended by the storyboard is sort of irrelevant. Unless and until it appears onscreen in a distinct fashion, it's ambiguous... much like the origin of the Constructicons in "Heavy Metal War". Now I think it's pretty damn clear that Bombshell becomes Cyclonus (even if I don't LIKE it), but I'm really just playing the devil's advocate here. It's still not 100% definitive... even if it's absolutely painfully obvious what the intended inference should be... again, much like the origin of the Constructicons in "Heavy Metal War" Of course, I don't think that the '86 movie is really all that good, nostalgia be damned, so I'd call anything in it into question just on general principle. Is there even actually a cut in the shot in question? It's all one shot, isn't it, without even any reframing? Doesn't this make the discussion of line-of-sight moot? Hey, I went to film school too, y'know. Everyone who is working in the film industry now, raise your hand! **my hand is not raised** I think I remember the episode he's talking about... isn't it one of the last episodes in Season 1? I remember seeing it on my local station as a kid, and we only ever had Season 1. It's the one where Starscream comes to Cybertron, and basically just bullies Shockwave into accepting his authority. Which is, of course, bullshit. Cartoon Shockwave is a joke. Isn't this kind of like one of those arguments about "crossing the axis", which every film student takes really seriously, until you realize that every director worth their salt crosses the damn axis all the time, but knows how and when to do it in ways that you don't notice or care? zmog
Completed film is canon. The story boards can only be evidence twards creator intent. But creator intent is never canon. Inside jokes But on a serious note.... its a different type of debate. In that case the dialog is not definitive. I feel it is, as theres no reason to question what was shown on screen. Other then just not likeing it. Exactly. Mines are down as well But I did work at Marvel for a while. That would have to be "Countdown to Extinction". But it doesnt really match his description. Artistic license at its best....or worst in some cases.... Cough...Bay...cough
@ the dead horse guy: Not everyone has been on the internet as long as you. I didn't even know there WAS a Cyclonus debate until this thread so for me it's not a dead horse. And on a somewhat related note, I can't even really believe there IS a Cyclonus debate. I had never seen the story board before, but it does definitively proves that Bombshell is Cyclonus. Fact: Story board shows Bombshell and his name is actually written on the storyboard panel 1 for the scene in question. Fact: That same panel says that "other Decepticons" become the Armada. Fact: The second panel shows the Decepticon in the foreground turning into Cyclonus. Fact: All of this made it into the animation on screen. Ipso facto Bombshell is Cyclonus. The story board is exactly what showed up on the animation and therefore provides an official source defining who became Cyclonus. And I can't help wondering if the designers didn't have this in mind to begin with. I mean look at the similarities. Both have a similar transformation where: The arms fold down at the sides to become part of the alt mode. The legs fold up to become the back of the alt mode. The head has a long protrudy thing that flips back in robot mode. The chest is smooth round and purple. I also issued a challange a few pages back for anyone to provide a good reason why the producers would have the clone in the back become the main character seen in every episode of season 3 ever when the bot in the foreground is the one seen transforming so that parents could get a good detailed look at the toy they were all supposed to be hunting for to get their kids for Christmas that year. And yet no one has taken me up on that challenge. Hmm... Face it: Sto Vo Kor wins the thread. Transtrekkie -Still needs to watch that He-Man episode he was talking about.
Industry no, outside industry on indy stuff yes at one time. That's kind of like saying Britney spears is a good muscian but the band down the street with a classically trained guitarist isn't because they never got signed and haven't sold a million records. As for the cut, actually there is. 2 cuts, one from galves to the seekers to the transformation: My point was someone was making assumptions about film theory that weren't true. I actually am shocked people even care about who cyclonis is. Seems trivial to me but a big deal to many. To me it seems obvious who's who in the movie. Ok, no more derailing on my end. Back to the topic at hand.
Nobody was casting aspersions on your merit as a filmmaker, dude. Only sharing in the film grad post-educational drift experience. Though perhaps you might take the point that you're not the only one here who understands and has studied film theory, and has made films. On film, no less (F***ing Steenbecks!). That's why I specified about the "shot in question". The one where Cyclonus is introduced in the dialog, and is reformatted from Decepticon bodies, is all one shot. There's no line-of-sight transition there... unless you're not talking about editing at all, and are just referring to the line-of-sight connection between the audience and the screen (Cyclonus being assumed to be the "first" character named, who is closer to the audience). Maybe I misunderstood the context of the comment on line-of-sight? zmog
DAMN...i should of did my research...good find.......proves doubt and i'll leave it at that..both points are valid...no clear answer other than both are cyclonus..
I will say I'm growing an affinity for the aesthetics of thrust and dirge more recently. I did like the looks of thrust as a kid but never got past the conehead thing.
ya i like the cone heads a lot as well...warp just so happen to be the first ever transformer i saw....i really like what igear is doing with the c-heads...so im gonna have to grap those when they drop...L8s...
Skywarp was the first seeker I ever owned so he's always got a special place in my heart for that. I guess you never forget your first Seeker.
I like Starscream the best. If I were to list the original six in order of like it would go like this: Starscream Ramjet Skywarp Thundercracker Dirge Thrust
let me know when you do. I believe he was asking if there was a cut bin the "Cyclonus" segment. And theres not. Excuse me?? The theroy is very much true.I just didnt do the best job describing it. Line of sight is a similar tactic for character introduction. There are plenty of examples within the series of left to right introduction.The Constructicons,The Aerialbots , the Combaticons. What are you seeing?? How does that prove doubt on the Cyclonus issue when none of those pics show the Cyclonus transformation???Thats the shot od Scourges transformation. Heres trhe shot of Cyclonus'es transformation The dialog tells us 1 is Cyclonus and the other is "Armada" or is part of an Armada. Front to back, line of sight,left to right, no mater how you want to describe it, Bombshell fits the bill. Theres no logical reason to doubt it and the basics of story telling and character intruduction.. And if you can come up with one please let me know. BTW, heres a shot from season 3
Starscream is my favorite TF of all time so needless to say he is my favorite seeker. This is based purely on his character in the cartoon and the awesome voice acting talents of Chris Latta. Ramjet would be my least favorite. A jet that intentionally crashes into things...umm yeah. As far as toy design is concerned I'd say Thrust then Skywarp.
