fate stay night - ok am i missing something?

Discussion in 'Movies and Television' started by Ghost Prime, May 5, 2008.

  1. Ghost Prime

    Ghost Prime Banned

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    ok so ive finally watched all the episodes of Manga/Anime series -Fate Stay Night - and it was fantastic. Best manga series ive seen for a seriously long time but theres just afew things im seriously confused about

    1. Saber and Excallibur
    Ok when Shiro,Rin and Saber fight Hercules we see Shiro TRACE (weapon summon) sabers original sword Excallibur. Now heres were i get confused....
    originally Saber said she no longer possest Excallibur and when Shiro manages to trace it and use it to defeat Hercules we see Saber is very shocked and she says 'how did he manage to get that? it used to be my sword' and thats the FIRST time we actually see Excallibur because until then Saber has used an invisible sword to defeat her enemys. Yet after that incident we see Saber use Excallibur several times.........without any explanation as to HOW she got it back, WHY she was shocked when Shiro managed to make a copy of it, WHY if her Invisible sword actually IS Excallibur then why the hell didnt she use it to defeat Hercules in the first place?

    2.Alt/Dark Saber
    Ok so i have the revoltechs Rin Tosaka, Saber and Alt Saber.....
    so were abouts is Alt/Dark Saber in the cartoon then? i had heard that saber becomes possest with evil after 'touch of the Witch' but i didnt see it happen, so were abouts does evil Saber come into the fateStayNight universe?

    3. Missing Fate Revoltechs?
    Im just curious but why has there NOT been a Revoltech for Archer/Shiro or the little girl with white hair (insburg , elizebirth isnt it?) or Rider? it just seems like serious missed out characters as Rider and Archer would have made fantastic revoltech figures

    4. Archer/ Shiro
    ok so i know Archer IS shiro from the future but does shiro ever figure this out? also the ending for the series was alittle crapped out so im wondering does shiro actually become Archer in the future now then?
     
  2. Prisoner1138

    Prisoner1138 TFW2005 Supporter

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    Keep in mind that you're missing the games, which answered at least a couple of those questions.
     
  3. Tekkaman Blade

    Tekkaman Blade Professor of Animation

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    Fate started out as a hentai game the manga and anime are more cleaned up versions. Weird stuff happened in the games.
     
  4. Roanstalker

    Roanstalker Great Baan Gaan fan

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    The original game had 3 different story routes to go through (2 of which have been translated) and the anime kind of merges them into one story (with a lot of stuff being removed).
     
  5. mx-01 archon

    mx-01 archon Well-Known Member

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    1) Shiro summons Caliburn (the sword in the stone), not Excalibur (the sword of the lake), which Saber's always had. The invisible sword is Excalibur. Remember, she fully reveals it to defeat Rider. This draws from the multiple variations on Arthurian legend, where in some cases, Excalibur is the sword in the stone, whereby drawing it grants the right to rule England. In other versions, Excalibur is granted as a boon by the Lady of the Lake. Caliburn is an alternate translation of Excalibur.

    2) Dark Saber exists in the Heaven's Feel scenario in the game, which is not adapted in the anime. In it, Sakura is corrupted by the Holy Grail, and her inate powers as a magus are fully awakened (her nature is subtly hinted at in the anime. She's Rider's true Master). At one point in this storyline, Saber is struck by Caster's Noble Phantasm, Rulebreaker, this time severing her contract with Shiro, rather than simply damping her magical abilities. At that point, Sakura steals Saber, her dark powers corrupting her to create Dark Saber.

    3) That's the figure manufacturing business for you. Not everything you want made gets made. At this point, though, I'm hoping for Max Factory to make the rest of the Servants in their Figma line. I could give a rat's ass about Revoltech renditions.

    4) Archer is actually Shiro from an alternate future. After the end of the 5th Grail War (in his timeline), he continues his path as an idealistic hero. At one point, unable to save a large group of people from certain disaster, he makes a pact with the world, whereby he becomes what's known as a Counter Guardian (a spirit which prevents disaster), in exchange for saving all those people which he failed. Unforeseen by him, one of the people which he sacrificed his life to save betrays him, souring his ideals greatly. And as a Counter Guardian, he finds himself having to slaughter countless numbers of people "for the greater good", something he never wanted. Angry and jaded, he petitions the Throne of Heroes (the transdimentional artifact which allows the Epic Heroes to be summoned) to send him back to the 5th Grail War, with the goal of killing his younger self to save himself the anguish of seeing his ideals crushed.

    This never comes to pass, though. In all storylines, Archer comes to realize that Shiro has come to his own terms about his selfless ideals, such that the tragedies that befell Archer probably won't come to Shiro, so there's no reason to kill him.
     
  6. Ghost Prime

    Ghost Prime Banned

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    ok the whole sword thing makes no sense

    1. Merlin was given the sword EXCALLIBUR by the lady of the lake.
    2. Merlin put THAT sword in the stone and told the earth to only release it to someone PURE of heart - I.E Aurther
    3. When King Aurther died from the wounds of his SON the sword EXACLLIBUR was then cast BACK into the lake.
    4. King Aurthers body is taken to Avalon were he is ment to be in enternal sleep until the day he is needed again

    also it makes no sense about the sword because you look at the sword Saber uses during the show, first its invisible and then when its formed visability its got lots of jewls around the upper center on the handle (on the blade area) and a golden hilt section. Her sword then appears to change slightly at times becoming a thicker blade and smaller curved hilt rather than the thick curved one.

    can her sword Exacllibur change its appearance during battles when she uses her Noble Fantasium?
     
  7. Cruellock

    Cruellock Disney Villain

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    The story is about a bunch of magicians who summon legendary heroes and you're concerned that it doesn't follow the traditional King Arthur's legend? It's just someone changing the story a bit, it's not real-life canon, the King Arthur story wasn't changed forever. It's just the Fate/Stay Night universe King Arthur legend.
     
  8. mx-01 archon

    mx-01 archon Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, Fate/Stay Night uses slightly modified versions of the characters' mythology. Not entirely out of left field, as many of the characters have multiple variations on their mythology anyways.

    No complaints about Rider not having snake hair? Or that "King" Arthur is a woman?

    As for Saber's swords, the thin-bladed sword with the jewelled hilt is Excalibur. The wide-bladed sword with the thick crossguard is Caliburn.
     
  9. Ghost Prime

    Ghost Prime Banned

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    Rider with snake hair? to be honest i have no clue about many of the so called -epic heros- or who they really are aside from Saber,golden king and Bizzerker (hercules and king Aurther and Gilgamesh) im not sure abot the rest. I was confused as to why Rider was on Pegasus (the white horse with wings)

    what i was more confused about was why certain characters were missing from the show such as Caren and Lancers female master
     
  10. Cruellock

    Cruellock Disney Villain

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    Lancer's master is in the "sequel" Fate/Hollow Ataraxia. Only available as a visual novel right now.
     
  11. mx-01 archon

    mx-01 archon Well-Known Member

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    Rider is Medusa. Small hints are given in the series, like Saber saying that she is a demon, rather than an Epic Hero, and the blindfold she always wears (prevents her from turning everything to stone). In some versions of the mythology, she is the mother to Pegasus. In Fate/Stay Night's version of the myth, the Gorgons never had their iconic snake hair. In it, the three Gorgon Sisters were born of mankind's wish for ideal Goddesses. Jealous of their beauty, Athena goaded their worshippers into turning on them, and the same desires that gave birth to them distorted perception of them into the monsters they're now known as.

    Saber - King Arthur
    Berserker - Hercules
    Archer - Shiro Emiya
    Lancer - Chu Chalainn
    Caster - Medea
    Assassin - Kojiro Sasaki
    Rider - Medusa
    Archer 2 - Gilgamesh

    Caren Ortensia and Bazzett Fraga McRemitz (Lancer's original master) only appear in Fate/Hollow Ataraxia, a sequel to Fate/Stay Night. It's only a semi-canonical story, as it takes place after the events of Heaven's Feel, not the canonical Fate story. Doubtful that we'll ever see it animated, since the anime uses the incompatible Fate ending. In the Heaven's Feel ending, Ilya is used as the vessel of the Holy Grail, purifying it, and allowing it to grant the wishes of its masters as intended. It is then used to grant the members of the 5th Grail War a happier existence, also reversing some of the damage done, like Bazzett's death. Thus the Masters and Servant are able to lead a happy life together.
     
  12. DilaZirK

    DilaZirK Is bullheaded.

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    Thanks. This clears a lot of things up for me, since I haven't quite gotten around to finishing the anime. (Can't stand Shiro...)



    Which is why I think it was a poor choice to use the "Fate" story path for the anime. Heck, Unlimited Blade Works would've made for a more interesting option as well. Although apparently Ilya gets her heart ripped out in that path...
     
  13. Ghost Prime

    Ghost Prime Banned

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    are these JAPANESE ONLY releases or something or were they done in english for us lot?
     
  14. mx-01 archon

    mx-01 archon Well-Known Member

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    The Fate visual novels were released in Japan only. There's an unlicensed English translation of Fate/Stay Night in the works, but that's the closest you're going to get. Visual Novels don't really have a market in North America.
     
  15. Sol Fury

    Sol Fury The British Butcher Administrator News Staff

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    It actually draws upon a far earlier, less traditional King Arthur myth. In some versions of the story, Arthur possessed another sword which was the "sword of kings" that he drew from the stone. It shattered during an argument and left Arthur in need of a sword, which he was granted by the Lady of the Lake, but that he had to return to her at the end of his days.

    In some of the legends, Arthur used a sword named Caledvolc, which was said to "draw blood from wind", which is pretty close to how Saber's "Invisible Air" sword functions.

    I just love how Fate took the mythology and used elements of it in a way that gave it that touch of authenticity, while not sticking so close to the myth that it brought down the series as a whole.
     
  16. Ghost Prime

    Ghost Prime Banned

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    does Shiro become Archer then? ive seen afew song/movie fate Hollow/unlimed Blade Works movies on YouTube and it looks like Shiro DOES become Archer but Saber kills him in a duel with each other?
     
  17. mx-01 archon

    mx-01 archon Well-Known Member

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    Shiro never becomes Archer in any of the stories. They start drawing more parallels between the two as the stories progress towards their conclusions, but they always make it clear that Shiro is quite different.

    He does get closer to Archer in ability, though, even going so far as to mimic Archer's Unlimited Bladeworks technique in one of the stories.
     

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