Exodus/Exiles and Prime Connected- NOT THE GAMES!

Discussion in 'Transformers Robots In Disguise / Prime Discussion' started by Thundercrackers, Aug 31, 2012.

  1. Thundercrackers

    Thundercrackers Cybertonian Scholar

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    (note: Before you comment in this thread, PLEASE read the entirety of my post here and see what my argument is! I do not want this thread to degenerate into another Aligned continuity flame war! This thread is about the two Alex Irvine novels, and Prime being connected, THIS THREAD IN NOT IN ANY WAY ABOUT WAR FOR CYBERTRON, OR FALL OF CYBERTRON! PLEASE DO NOT EVEN MENTION THEM IN THIS THREAD! THERE IS ALREADY A THREAD ABOUT THEM ON THIS BOARD!

    Oh, and don't bring up that WFC tie-in comic IDW did, that had WFC designs ethier, please -_- I count them as thier own weird little thing!)

    Exodus/Exiles and Prime: I believe they are one and the same universe, seperated by time. There are enough connections between the two that I do not think they are in the same continuity 'family', but are actually set in the same universe. My argument stands as thus;

    1.) The Primus/Thirteen and Unicron backstory; The flashback in Prime fits what we know from the novels.

    2.) Megatron/ Optimus Backstory; fits perfectly between the Novels and Prime. Ratchet Saying he didn't become Optimus until Primus gave him the matrix is Ratchet's point of view- he had been ruling with the title unofficaly since the council selected him as Prime, but his offical 'Coronation' in the eyes of most autobots was the moment he recieved the matrix of leadership from the core.

    3.) Makeshift; Mentioned in Exiles, this shifter would later appear and play a role in Prime. Is pretty much what he will be later on in the show.

    4.) Bumblebee; lost his voice in both Prime and the Novels at the battle of Tyger Pax. no contradiction.

    5.) Bulkhead; While the big guy was definitely on the Ark in exlies, and the Narration metioned his time with the Wreckers before departing Cybertron.

    6.) Wheeljack; In Exiles he is a Wrecker who stayed behind on Cybertron, and the moment Where Prime hears of him 'by reputation only' is right there in the novel!

    7.) Character Designs; This is an easy one- leaving out the connection to the games, these books HAVE no designs for the characters!

    8.) Dark Energon; this one is actually an easy one to explain. Remeber Synth energon from the show? That stuff behaved basically like Dark Energon from the first Novel. So my guess is Strascream mistook the stuff he found on Trypticon Staion (A form of Synth Energon) for true dark energon, and it was erronusly called that for the duration of the war on Cybertron. Sometime after Exiles, both factions discovered it was actually Synth Energon, and by the Time Megs brought the real stuff back in Trasformers Prime, both sides were aware of the error.

    For this I point to the fact that at no time in the novels did any Decepticon hear the whisperings of unicron in thier head, but merely an unchecked agression- the same agression Ratchet displayed in that episode, when he was corrputed by the Snyth energon.

    9.) Other media; The transformers Universe game shares Desings with prime, and the upcoming IDW Miniseries with the dinobots is suposed to be a Prime prequel. It would be just as easy for the comic to be a bridge between Exodus/Exiles and Prime, as it is for it to be a games-to-show bridge.

    So to those who want WfC/FoC as a G1 continuation instead of a Prime backstory, I say why not see the Novels as the prime prequel? If you see the hotly debated 'aligned Continuity' as Exodus-Exiles-Dinobot Comic-Prime Prequel comic-Transformers Universe- Transformer Prime, the pieces fit much better, don't you think?

    (And if anyone uses the games as an argument/turns this into a thread debate about the games... you missed the whole point! *Facepalm*)
     
  2. Starscream Gaga

    Starscream Gaga Protoformed This Way

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  3. Thundercrackers

    Thundercrackers Cybertonian Scholar

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    Please no, I want a thread for this specific idea, I don't want it getting lost in the megathread :( 
     
  4. Bumblebee765

    Bumblebee765 Wrecker

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    Somebody else supports this! I've believed this from the moment I started reading the novels. The further I progressed in my reading the more apparent it became. The only thing I couldn't explain was the Dark Energon, but now you've explained that perfectly! :thumb 
     
  5. bellpeppers

    bellpeppers A Meat Popsicle

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    Ehhh... this thread focuses on the books.
    Let it be separate.
     
  6. Sideways77

    Sideways77 oh shoogah

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    I can get behind this idea apposed to it relating to WfC/FoC.

    And I agree this should remain its own topic and not get completely lost in a megathread.
     
  7. Starscream Gaga

    Starscream Gaga Protoformed This Way

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    Alex Irvine's novels are a piece of trash. They are absolutely horrible. He should feel bad as a "writer" to have produced them.
    Its like the entire time he was trying to write as many plot-holes as he could humanly fit into one novel and its just... Ugh. He's not even consistent with himself. He is probably the worst writer ever to be part of Transformers fiction and you'd be hard pressed to find novels written worse than his TF ones.
    Not to mention the novel is a horrible attempt to be a prequel to G1, Prime and the Film series all at the same time. It is lost in its random jumping from plot to plot and it just doesn't work.

    The novels aren't really worth being a prequel to anything. They're not really good Prime prequels either, considering he just went in and shoved the All-Spark as a driving force for the Autobots and Decepticons to search for. Too big a deal in the end of the Exodus novel to be ignored in Prime. Anyway, I personally wouldn't want such a giant black mark as "Alex Irvine's novels" in ANY continuity. If the world was good they'd be slowly forgotten like Dreamwave's G1 run, which wasn't nearly as bad as this at all. It tries to be a prequel to three continuities and fails to make sense as a prequel to any of them.

    No, really the novels are just bad.
     
  8. Thundercrackers

    Thundercrackers Cybertonian Scholar

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    Thanks, everybody! :) 

    Personally, I disagree. Disengage the novels from Prime, and they are a fairly intreseting read as the beginning of the aligned universe. And the events, for the most part, DO match up, and the show references characters and plots from the novels, and expands upon them!
     
  9. Starscream Gaga

    Starscream Gaga Protoformed This Way

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    No they don't.
    Orion discovers the Space Station is a Transformer.... Later, Shockwave makes it a Transformer
    Orion is in Kaon... Then Iacon... then Kaon (All in the same scene)
    Starscream is a scientist... Starscream has no scientific background
    Onslaught is a constucticon... Onslaught is a combaticon
    Bruticus Maximus is introduced.... Bruticus Maximus is introduced
    Alpha trion told the council to elect Orion as Prime... Alpha trion told the council to elect Orion as Prime

    No matter what you say, horrible writing is horrible writing and Alex Irvine has a talent for FRACKING HORRIBLE writing. His errors aren't just little, they come across as him having no idea what he's previously written, its just. So. Bad.
    And those were all his own contradictions. Not even anything to do with his bad attempt to be a prequel to three continuities.
     
  10. The Swordsman

    The Swordsman The REAL hero of Hyrule

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    I usually try not to think about it very much. I just treat Prime as it's own thing and that's that.
     
  11. Thundercrackers

    Thundercrackers Cybertonian Scholar

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    I won't disagree that it has it's share of errors, but I look at them as minor inconsistancies in an overall narrative.

    The Trypticon thing is explainable; Tyrpticon was a transformer at one time, but Shockwave remade it and added sparks to it via ripping the sparks out starscream's poor scientist 'voulunteers' on the station. Starscream was SOMETHING of a scientist, but not enough to fully grasp what was being discussed at that moment (Being a commander first, scientist second- the scientists under him were specialists, with in-depth knowledge in a particular field) The Onslaught/Constructicon bits were mostly from Alpha Trion's narritive, and can be overlooked as a narritive mistake he made. And I think Aplha Trion 'suggested' Orion being made Prime to the council with a heavy 'this is me using my clout and infulence to convince you to make this descision' without directly telling them to do it- so it could be said he did and he didn't tell them to make Orion Pan the next Prime.

    That's a perfectly fine view to take... though I did point out things and character and backstories from the novels show up in Prime, as if the events of the book happened in that universe.
     
  12. FatalT 71

    FatalT 71 Mr. JazzHunter

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    Sorry, the books are the worst example of "Aligned Continuity" bullcrap ever. They mishmash everything, and the result is a confusing mess. The books are somewhat entertaining taken on their own, but trying to shoehorn them as a prequel to anything is an exercise in frustration.

    There is no DIRECT evidence apart from 'bots leaving Cybertron and ending up on Earth (which is a staple of all TF fiction) that would connect Prime and the books. The links just arent' there - rationalizing ways they can be connected don't make it so. Well, there is Dark Engeron, but that was pretty much the 2010 flavor of the month, which is now largely forgotten.

    Let Prime stand on its own. It doesn't HAVE to fit into anything that already exists regardless of continuity, or what Hasbro thinks.
     
  13. Thundercrackers

    Thundercrackers Cybertonian Scholar

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    With all due respect, the events and characters DO tie in. If someone wants to see them as seperate... that's thier right! But don't be surprised if a story comes down the line sometime, that explains how an ark full of cybertronians were whittled down to Prime, Bumblebee, Ratchet, and Bulkhead (Personally, I think by the time Prime rolls around, the first conflict with the Decepticons on earth is over, and the Autobots have returned to space in the Ark. The four that greeted Arcee and Cliffjumper in the Prime Prequel were a team led by Optimus that stayed behingd in case the cons returned.)
     
  14. Starscream Gaga

    Starscream Gaga Protoformed This Way

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    There's no excuse to a writer not being able to consistently write a novel. Continuity errors being backed up by "it was the narrating character" implies that they were supposed to be there, which they clearly weren't. It was never said Trypticon WAS a Transformer, it was that he IS a Transformer. That's sort of a detail that's important and even if that was the case, it is still horrible writing not to mention that.

    You can't excuse inexcusable writing, if you could, then a lot more trash then even now is flooding shelves would be published.
     
  15. Thundercrackers

    Thundercrackers Cybertonian Scholar

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    Not saying Irvine isn't a bad writer, I'm just saying the events in the books (Minus the errors) take Place in the Prime universe, serve as the backstory to the show.
     
  16. YoungPrime

    YoungPrime Well-Known Member

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    This x's 1000!

    There are so many things wrong with those books that I wouldn't know were to begin.

    Just read James Robert's Nonofficial Transformers novel "Eugenesis" if you're looking for a relevant read.

    At least he understands the characters and plot device, he's writing about. Hell they should make those two books unofficial and allow Roberts to clean up that mess with a new book if he's willing....
     
  17. YoungPrime

    YoungPrime Well-Known Member

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    It sounds to me like it was just some Hasbro exec's last minute spin to put all 3 of these together. Which I'm glad failed.

    But in reality Alex Irvine wasn't thinking about TF Prime while writing that book. Nor where the Prime writers thinking about WFC or any novels.

    As far as I'm concern, TF Prime and those books can keep each other. I care little for their back story.

    So just lease FOC/WFC out of it.

    Exactly. There back story for Orion Pax made no sense. He was a clerk who had no war experience what so ever. Yet congress just decided to make him a Prime.

    That's like US congress taking a random Librarian "with a vision" and putting him in charge of our troops in Afghanistan.
     
  18. Thundercrackers

    Thundercrackers Cybertonian Scholar

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    Yet that selfsame story is TF: Prime's offical backstory for Optimus, as told by Ratchet to both the kids, and us, in a flashback. And the amnesiac Orion Pax metions things from said backstory on the show.
     
  19. RedAlert Rescue

    RedAlert Rescue Banned

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    They seemed to say he'd be a Prime in name but only in deed once he'd recovered the Matrix and been on some kind of Quest I suppose.

    I sort of have this vision of Prime taking Jazz and one or two others and fighting his way through creepy things and darkness until he eventually finds the core and gets the Matrix.

    Oh and one good judge of how much or little Prime has to do with some of the other pre-earth fiction is how Prime-Optimus reacts to Jazz in the Novels Jazz seems to be his eldest and best buddy.
     
  20. FatalT 71

    FatalT 71 Mr. JazzHunter

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    Then where is the Ark? Where are all the Autobots that left Cybertron with Optimus? Jazz? Sideswipe? Prowl?

    Sorry. Just because they're using the same origin story, as dictated by the new official Hasbro franchise bible, doesn't mean the books form a direct prequel to Prime. I just don't see it.
     

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