Episode 34 Nemesis Prime Discussion

Discussion in 'Transformers Robots In Disguise / Prime Discussion' started by Oberoniss, Apr 7, 2012.

  1. Gordon_4

    Gordon_4 The Big Engine

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2007
    Posts:
    12,848
    News Credits:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    307
    Likes:
    +913
    To be fair, decapitation would mean an intact head; and then stasis lock. An almost point blank blast of Optimus' weapons wouldn't actually leave a head, and probably take some of the upperbody with it too.


    Okay first thing, that post you quoted had that part in spoiler tags for a reason. Have the courtesy to keep the spoiler tags.

    His proof is the word of what I would presume to be the writers. It is possible they're just shooting shit, but I want you to try and follow this idea: Unicron is not a standard Cybertronian, or indeed even a being. Someone who can create avatars for himself out of the ground upon which you stand, and who's mere act of waking up to scratch himself causes catastrophic weather patterns is not to be underestimated. As I also said "Even a dead God can dream", we all know who said that and why.
     
  2. SouthtownKid

    SouthtownKid Headmaster

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2011
    Posts:
    19,173
    News Credits:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    297
    Likes:
    +3,136
    Yeah, why should the writers know what they are talking about or their intent matter? :rolleyes2 

    Whatever. If you want to live in denial because you think the show should have gone one way when it went another, so be it. That is your prerogative. Just don't act like we all have to join you in your alternate universe. We'll all just be over here watching the actual tv show. You can rejoin us later if you feel like it.
     
  3. SaberPrime

    SaberPrime Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2010
    Posts:
    5,708
    Trophy Points:
    247
    Likes:
    +502
    Considering we've been talking about it the entire time I don't get what the spoiler was. Also considering this a season 2 discussion topic I would assume that anyone in here would have either all ready seen season one or would at least be aware of spoilers before walking in. Basically if this were any other discussion on any other thread I would of left the spoiler tags but in here they're entirely unnecessary.

    Isn't the fact that when they kill a character they really kill a character also the word of the writers? I don't know when they said this, presumably at BotCon when they showed the first trailer for the series.

    Unicron is in fact dead and there's proof of that on camera. Because the writers said that when they kill a character they really kill a character that would mean that Unicron is not coming back. Same thing with Breakdown.

    It's possible the writers could change their minds and bring back any dead character they want but this argument is basically about 3 things.

    1. A writer statement that when they kill a character in this series they really kill a character with no intention to ever bring them back.

    2. A different writer statement claiming that Unicron may return in future episodes.

    3. Unicron's spark exploding at the end of season 1 which would make the first two writer statements contradict each other.

    Basically they're doing the same false information scam they did for the movies so you should really take their word with a grain of salt till you see it actually happen. So far there's nothing in the fiction to make me believe that anyone is coming back and even if they do come back that doesn't change the fact that they died. No amount of writer insight is going to change what actually appeared on screen. There is no unsure cliffhanger, there is only clear visual conformation.

    Breakdown may or may not be coming back but I'm not interested in proving or disproving your speculations. I'm only interested in the fact that he was seen dead. If you can at least agree he was killed by Airachnid, which he was, then this argument would be over. The only reason we're arguing about it is because you want to pretend that he never died in the first place.

    Same thing with Unicron. I'm not interested in arguing weather or not he may or may not appear later in the series. I'm only interested in the fact that his spark is gone. We're only arguing about this because you want to insist that he still has a spark. If you can agree that there is no spark which means he's dead then this argument would be over.

    I don't know who said that and why. In any case, you have a point about the avatars. For all we know one of them could have been sent off world. We don't really know how the avatars work. Maybe each one of them has a small piece of his spark. Maybe that's how the writers will bring him back, who knows. But again, I'm not interested in your speculation, I'm interested in what we've already seen in fiction.

    You say I can't prove that Unicron or Breakdown are dead. I say I have already proven they are dead. Just acknowledge the fact that we saw in fiction Unicron's spark explode and that we saw in fiction Breakdown's dismembered corpse. If you can't at least admit that we saw them both die and you want to keep insisting that it never happened then we're just going to keep arguing about it.
     
  4. SouthtownKid

    SouthtownKid Headmaster

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2011
    Posts:
    19,173
    News Credits:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    297
    Likes:
    +3,136
    You are still operating under the assumption that what you saw was the death of the character. The writers are telling you it was not. You saw one thing but there is nothing to tell you it meant what you think it meant. You do not see the "spark" there, but there is nothing to tell you it doesn't now exist somewhere else.

    The writers had a vision for what they wanted to do with the character when they wrote that scene. You are trying to impose your vision of what you think should have happened upon the show. I'll take the dialogue of the characters and the statements of the writers over your personal interpretation of the episode.
     
  5. Hypershock

    Hypershock Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2011
    Posts:
    1,058
    Trophy Points:
    142
    Likes:
    +1
    Liked the episode, also liked that mech isnt done, because even though i liked it i cant help but think that this cant possibly be mechs endgame

    side not, wikipedia now lists jennifer hale as voicing a character in Prime o_O 

    then again, theres so many people that will "be on Prime" yet nothing has happened
     
  6. RedAlert Rescue

    RedAlert Rescue Banned

    Joined:
    May 12, 2003
    Posts:
    13,220
    News Credits:
    5
    Trophy Points:
    236
    Likes:
    +11
    She could be anything from one of Jack School friends, to a teacher, to jacks Aunt, to Miko's Hoist parent to Solus Prime.
     
  7. Gordon_4

    Gordon_4 The Big Engine

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2007
    Posts:
    12,848
    News Credits:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    307
    Likes:
    +913
    I swear to God if they waste talent like Jennifer Hale on material like Miko's host parent or Jack's aunt I will have no choice but to declare that the writers and/or execs on this show are all fucking bonkers.

    Seriously, Commander Shepard as Solus Prime.....I get all giddy thinking about how awesome that would be.
     
  8. janeDoe001

    janeDoe001 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2008
    Posts:
    4,278
    News Credits:
    16
    Trophy Points:
    202
    Likes:
    +242
    Not likely, according to Exile, Solus was murdered by Maximus (AKA the Fallen) so unless it's a flashback, it ain't happening.

    Back on Topic: How long do you think that Silas will be out of the picture? (episode wise)


    jD001
     
  9. SaberPrime

    SaberPrime Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2010
    Posts:
    5,708
    Trophy Points:
    247
    Likes:
    +502
    First of all, I think you might be talking about an entirely different continuity. Secondly even if you want to believe that the 13 are singularities the Fallen and Nexus Maximus are entirely different characters. The Fallen was Megatronus Prime. Maximus was the combinder team. They have separate pages on the wiki.
     
  10. CelticMutt

    CelticMutt Herald of Thundercracker

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2010
    Posts:
    2,620
    Trophy Points:
    222
    Location:
    Outside Atlanta
    Likes:
    +279
    Look, all I'm saying is that there is just as much proof that Breakdown never died as there is that he did. I don't see why that's so hard to accept.
     
  11. SouthtownKid

    SouthtownKid Headmaster

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2011
    Posts:
    19,173
    News Credits:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    297
    Likes:
    +3,136
    Breakdown seems dead. But hey, we're sure to find out this season. Maybe there will be some trace of Breakdown's ghost in the machine, and Silas will have to contend with it for control of the body. I don't think so, but anything is possible.
     
  12. SaberPrime

    SaberPrime Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2010
    Posts:
    5,708
    Trophy Points:
    247
    Likes:
    +502
    What proof is there that he never died? There can't be proof of both it's either one or the other. If he was alive then his body would be intact and he'd just be lying uncontentious on the ground when M.E.C.H. picked him up. He wasn't uncontentious, he was completely torn apart which means dead. Why are we still debating something that is clearly dead? Can we spend some time debating weather or not Seaspray is alive, at least with him we never saw the corpse.
     
  13. CelticMutt

    CelticMutt Herald of Thundercracker

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2010
    Posts:
    2,620
    Trophy Points:
    222
    Location:
    Outside Atlanta
    Likes:
    +279
    *sigh* No internal organ damage, no sign of a dead spark, lit up eyes when reassembled ... Stuff I've said over and over again until I'm sick of repeating myself. It's obvious you don't want to accept other ideas between this and the creator commentary on the DVDs, so I'm just stopping. The evidence is there for BOTH ideas, dead and never died. Accept it or not, I don't care.
     
  14. kaijuguy19

    kaijuguy19 Keyblade Wielder

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2011
    Posts:
    24,929
    News Credits:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    327
    Likes:
    +1,815
    I'm going to have to sadly go with Saberprime when he says that Breakdown is history period. If there's a chance of him survinving somehow I'll eat my words up. I know however that once a character's dead they stay dead so there's no chance of resssurection going to be cooked up.
     
  15. SaberPrime

    SaberPrime Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2010
    Posts:
    5,708
    Trophy Points:
    247
    Likes:
    +502
    *sigh* Who cares about internal damage when his freaking body was torn apart. How do you even know that Skyquake had any vital organs damaged? Obviously something was damaged but for all you know he could have lived without it. Yet he's just as dead as Breakdown is. I like how you use no sign of a dead spark to prove Breakdown is alive but when I show you Unicron's spark explode he's some how still alive too. His eye, he only has one, was not lit up when his head wasn't attached to his body and you can actually see his eye in that shot unlike the other shot... Stuff I've not only said over and over again until I'm sick of repeating myself BUT ACTUALLY SHOWN PROOF OF. It's obvious you don't want to accept the facts. He is clearly, without a doubt, 100% dead a door knob.

    Your "evidence" is merely speculation that M.E.C.H. some how restored his life which might be a valid argument but that I don't really care about. I don't care if Breakdown might be alive. I really don't, I'm not debating that at all. Eye lit, eye not lit, if he has 2 eyes again or still has 1 eye. I don't freaking care. All I care about is getting you to accept the fact that he died in Crisscross. He was killed by Airachnid. That's a 100% provable without reasonable doubt fact that is non debatable. He freaking died, accept it, get over it, and wait to see if the writers work their fictional universe magic to raise him from the dead even though they claimed they would never do that so that we can get on with our lives.

    Or better yet, I don't freaking care anymore. You believe what you want to believe and I'll actually believe facts. I'm thinking of changing my signature to that picture of Breakdown's corpse with text that reads "This is Breakdown's corpse, that means he's dead, get over it!"
     
  16. Hypershock

    Hypershock Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2011
    Posts:
    1,058
    Trophy Points:
    142
    Likes:
    +1
    what i think is he's really dead and they just transplant Silas inside with some controls like his chair
     
  17. CelticMutt

    CelticMutt Herald of Thundercracker

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2010
    Posts:
    2,620
    Trophy Points:
    222
    Location:
    Outside Atlanta
    Likes:
    +279
    Ok, I was wrong, I do still care. Skyquake had his internals ripped out. If that's not blatant vital internal organ damage, I don't know what is. And oh yeah, I've shown actual proof why his alleged death isn't following the death rules followed by the other named characters.

    Unicron is not Cybertronian. He does not have a Spark the same way Cybertronians do.

    If he's still alive, Mech only reassembled hi, because he would have been alive the entire time. They would not have resurrected him. That's the entire freaking point. The idea is he is not dead in the first place, so the writers aren't going back on their dead means dead rule. Same with Unicron.

    His eye would have been unlit after decapitation because he would be in stasis lock, aka a coma.

    Airachnid killing him is not 100% fact. It is speculation until the creators confirm one way or the other. There is more than enough evidence for reasonable doubt. Obviously it is debatable, because we're debating it.

    Seriously dude, you need to chill out, calm down, and stop acting like you are the only one with facts, because you aren't. There are plenty of facts supporting both dead, and never was dead.
     
  18. SaberPrime

    SaberPrime Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2010
    Posts:
    5,708
    Trophy Points:
    247
    Likes:
    +502
    A t-cog is an internal organ too and both Bumblebee and Starscream have had theirs removed without death. A voice box is also an internet organ. Organ damage doesn't mean fatal.

    In humans you can loose a kidney and still live as long as you have one that still works. If you loose your heart then it's fatal. My point was that how do you know that Skyquake lost a vital organ and not something he could live without?

    In that same line of reasoning how do you think it's possible to live threw total dismemberment? It might be possible to live without whatever it was that got ripped from Skyquake but if he died that easily surely it's not possible to live threw having your entire body ripped apart.

    For all you know Skyquake didn't die from fatal organ injury but rather from Energon loss, the Transformer equivalent of bleeding to death. Same thing with Cliffjumper. So how is it possible that Breakdown is not dead when it's clear as day that there's no f-ing way he could have lived threw that?

    Where? That his eye was supposedly lit up at the end of Nemesis Prime? Even if that is true it doesn't mean he didn't die in Crisscross. He was freaking dismembered, killed by Airachnid. You might want to pretend that never happened but it did so just accept it.

    He does have a spark, it's freaking gigantic but it's still a spark. It's just a difference in size and spark extinguished means the same thing no matter how big or small that spark may be. He's dead.

    WRONG! If he wasn't dead M.E.C.H. would never have reassembled him because he would never have been torn apart in the first place. If he is alive now after M.E.C.H. resembled him that is not proof that he never died and the writers would indeed be going back on their word that dead means dead because they did in fact kill him. They freaking dismembered him and showed his corpse on camera, that means he was dead. If he wasn't dead then that never happened.

    Lets put it this way, you can't have it both ways. If you want to argue that Breakdown never died then you have to argue that he was never dismembered. You have to argue that M.E.C.H. had no need to put him back together because he was never taken apart. And you have to argue that Airachnid only knocked him uncontentious but he was fine.

    If you don't want to argue that then freaking admit to the fact that he was dead.

    Same thing with Unicron. If you want to argue that he is only in stasis then you have to argue that he still has a spark. Sense you can't prove that he still has a spark because his spark chamber is freaking empty then you have to admit he is dead.

    Just because you personally want to ignore the facts when all the evidence says they're dead doesn't mean they're alive.

    Again, wrong. Megatron's eyes were closed when he was in a coma not simply unlit which is actually similar to humans. People in comas are like they're asleep, eyes closed, while dead people can still have their eyes open. And for the record, unless that head was still alive and running like so many characters in Animated I doubt Transformers in this series can live threw decapitation at least there is no evidence to say they can. And still, we have seen in this series where damaged Transformers have leaked Energon fluid, again equivalent to bleeding. We didn't see any Energon around his corpse but it's possible Airachnid drank it. I mean she is technically part spider. So the lack of Energon bleeding from his corpse would only support the idea that Airachnid killed him sense they can't live without it.

    Yes it is.

    No speculation means we never saw anything on camera to confirm it which we did in fact see on camera. Speculation is that the Insecticon in some way helped to kill Breakdown. That is something we never saw happen but may indeed be possible. I never made that claim as fact though because it wasn't shown in the episode. Breakdown being killed by Airachnid was shown so it's fact. She may have only delivered the initial blow sense that's all we saw but that and the carnage afterwords is enough to confirm her killing him as a fact.

    We know that Breakdown is dead because we saw his dismembered corpse. That makes his death an indisputable fact. We know that Airachnid is at least partially responsible for his death if not entirely responsible because we saw her deliver the initial attack. That makes the statement that Airachnid killed Breakdown an indisputable fact. The only speculation involved in his murder is weather or not another character might have been involved but I never made that claim as fact nor do I wish to.

    Agian, what evidence? M.E.C.H. put him back together and his eye was lit is not evidence that he wasn't killed. If you want to provide evidence that he survived then show me his not-dismembered body that Airachnid simply knocked uncontious. Oh wait you can't do that because it doesn't exist.

    We're debating it because you are ignoring obvious facts. It's not debatable because anyone with at least one working eye, pun defiantly intended, can see that he was freaking dead.

    I am the only one with facts because what you're claiming simply is not true and you have not provided one shred of evidence to prove otherwise. Fact is you can't provide evidence to prove otherwise because it doesn't freaking exist. Every ounce of evidence in the series says dead, dead, dead, holly f-ing crap he's freaking dead.
     
  19. CelticMutt

    CelticMutt Herald of Thundercracker

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2010
    Posts:
    2,620
    Trophy Points:
    222
    Location:
    Outside Atlanta
    Likes:
    +279
    Ok, see, the thing is I'm fully open to the possibility he's dead. I've said that many times. But you are obsessed with being right about him being dead. It's not healthy. Or accurate. But it's certainly amusing.
     
  20. longhaulsub

    longhaulsub PS3 Tag: Northporttroller

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2011
    Posts:
    601
    Trophy Points:
    117
    Likes:
    +4
    Holy hell. :popcorn 
     

Share This Page