Episode 34 Nemesis Prime Discussion

Discussion in 'Transformers Robots In Disguise / Prime Discussion' started by Oberoniss, Apr 7, 2012.

  1. CelticMutt

    CelticMutt Herald of Thundercracker

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    I already stated this - Skyquake and Cliffjumper had their internal organs ripped apart. Breakdown didn't.

    Uh, what does Unicron have to do with anything? I'm talking about BD's spark, which we didn't see alive or dead.

    Maybe it's dim lighting to you, but I can see it perfectly fine, I can see his face, and I can see his left eye lit up. And yes, you can easily see his eye and eye-patch.
     
  2. AngryChad

    AngryChad Well-Known Member

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    It's pretty silly to state that character 'X' is definitively dead, or really to argue over fiction in general. If the writers want to bring a character back, they'll do it. Probably not Cliffjumper, since it was explicitly stated that he was created specifically for that purpose, but really anyone else is fair game. You want Breakdown back? Fine. Mech took a backup of his memory banks or whatever when they used his parts to create Nemesis Prime. His personality still exists and Mech has the ability to create Cybertronian bodies. BAM! Done! Next fake problem to solve!

    =====

    How do you kill a vampire?

    "...however the %#*& you want because vampires DON’T %#*&ING EXIST!!! You can make up rules for any kind of thing you want." - Max Landis' Dad
     
  3. [Wing_Saber-X]

    [Wing_Saber-X] Fortress Maximus!

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    OMG at the ending. cliched' maybe but totally surprising! MECH = Silas! :D 
     
  4. SaberPrime

    SaberPrime Well-Known Member

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    Actually they said the Matrix would HOPEFULLY put Unicron into Stasis. They weren't even aware Unicron really existed till then and thought he was just something of Myth and legend. Much of their plan was based on theory not on fact. They thought that sense Unicron was in the Earth's core that killing him would destroy the Earth. It didn't.

    Fact is, they were inside his Spark chamber when Optimus unleashed the Matrix and then his Spark was gone. If he was simply in stasis then his spark would still be there but it's gone so that means he's dead.

    How do you know this for a fact. Did you see any of their internal organs? No, all you see is their external damage. We know that Cliffjumper is dead because, you guessed it, he was dismembered. If dismembered means dead for Cliffjumper it means dead for Breakdown. Internal organs don't really matter we never saw any internal damage with anyone except for...

    ... Unicron who happens to be the only character who's spark we actually saw get extinguished. I mentioned Unicron BECAUSE you're talking about Breakdown's spark. We literally saw Unicron's Spark die and people still think he's alive. He's the only character we actually saw their spark.

    You're using double standards all over the place. Cliffjumper is dead because he was dismembered but Breakdown is alive for the same reason? Breakdown is alive because we never saw his spark die but Unicron is alive even though we did see his spark die?

    Cliffjumper is dead, confirmed on camera.

    Tailgate is dead, confirmed on camera.

    Breakdown is dead, confirmed on camera.

    Skyquake is dead, confirmed on camera.

    Unicron is dead, confirmed on camera.

    You have a better chance of Seaspray and Makeshift still being alive sense they both died in explosions and we never saw a corpse on camera.
     
  5. SouthtownKid

    SouthtownKid Headmaster

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    You better ask the show's creators. It seems like if they wanted to have him be dead, they would have made mention of it at some point. When other characters have died, we've been told they were dead. The plan, as you agree, was to put him back into stasis. That makes sense also from a meta standpoint in that it allows the writers to use Unicron again.

    Just because you think you saw what you think you saw, that doesn't necessarily mean what you think you saw meant what you think it meant.

    Could he be dead? Sure. But saying it's "confirmed" is you presenting an opinion as fact. Let's wait to see what the writers do.
     
  6. moreprimeland

    moreprimeland Optimus told me to do it! Moderator

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  7. SaberPrime

    SaberPrime Well-Known Member

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    Why would I need to ask the show's creator's something I already know. Is Unicron's spark gone? Yes it is. OK thanks for telling me what I already know bye. Why they need to make mention of it? You can see for yourself that he doesn't have a spark anymore.

    I don't think I saw what I saw, I KNOW I saw it. There was a spark and then there wasn't. That's not debatable, that's fact. We also know for a fact that the spark is the life force of the Transformers, if they don't have a life force that means they're dead. Again, that's fact.

    Saying it's confirmed isn't an opinion, it's actually a provable fact. If it were an opinion that would mean I can't prove it one way or the other, it would just be what I think happened but what I think has nothing to do with it. It actually happened on camera, there isn't room to think or doubt or speculate, all the evidence is right there. There is literally without a doubt proof that Unicron is dead. There is absolutely no evidence what so ever to even speculate that he might be alive.

    What's the point of even watching the show if you need the writers to tell you what you can clearly see in the finished product.

    I went and found the full episode.

    Transformers Prime Season 1 Episode 26 One Shall Rise Pt. 3 - YouTube

    And I took a couple screen shots of Unicron's spark and the empty chamber after his spark is no longer there. You can see in the video where his spark explodes. If that's not proof of being dead then nothing is.
     

    Attached Files:

  8. Cyber-Scream

    Cyber-Scream Well-Known Member

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  9. SouthtownKid

    SouthtownKid Headmaster

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    I don't want to hear you crying when Unicron returns in the series finale or something.

    In the episode you link to, Unicron also happens to mention that he has transcended physical being.
     
  10. SaberPrime

    SaberPrime Well-Known Member

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    First off I don't cry over cartoons. I complain about obvious continuity errors there's a huge difference. If they use Unicron again that would in fact be a continuity error because they did in fact already kill him.

    Also having "transcended physical being" doesn't mean anything when the part of him that was destroyed wasn't physical to begin with, it was HIS FREAKING SPARK that was destroyed. If his physical body was destroyed then you could use that to debate his continued existence but sense the Earth wasn't destroyed it's irrelevant.

    Besides considering he has a spark like any other Transformer, a freaking huge spark but still a spark, then it's destruction means his death the same as any other Transformer.

    Now I don't want to hear you crying when you ask the writers if Unicron is still alive and they just tell you to watch the season 1 finally because they don't want to give out spoilers. Typically writers don't answer questions about plot spoilers plus they'd probably assume you never saw the episode if you're asking that question. Then you could tell them you saw it and they can say "So then you saw his spark explode so why are you asking?"
     
  11. CelticMutt

    CelticMutt Herald of Thundercracker

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    Skyquake's internals were ripped out by Bee.

    Cliffjumper died from Starscream spearing him through the chest (ie internal organ injury), not dismemberment. He was not dismembered until after he had died and become a zombie. Unless you think losing a horn was a fatal injury.

    Until the creators flat out say Breakdown is dead, there is ample evidence to suggest he is alive.
     
  12. SouthtownKid

    SouthtownKid Headmaster

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    It's an expression.
     
  13. SaberPrime

    SaberPrime Well-Known Member

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    Technically that's true but I remember back when the series aired that people were constantly arguing about weather Cliffjumper was going to be revived some how and the fact that he was dismembered was used as evidence that there was no way in hell he was ever coming back. I'm basically using that same argument here for Breakdown.

    I also used Cliffjumper because the whole point in the writers killing him off so brutally was because they wanted to show that when they kill a character off they REALLY kill a character off. As in they never intended to bring him back, ever. So that sets the mood and the rule for the series that when you see a character die they aren't coming back.

    We did in fact see Breakdown die. There is no doubt about that. Now if you want to debate if the writers are going against their stance that dead means dead you're more than welcome to. If Breakdown does in fact come back alive then that also means there's hope to bring Cliffjumper and Skyquake back. They may not but it would at least mean that it's possible unless they can come up with some magic reason like he's been dead too long while Breakdown was recovered immediately after his death.

    In any case we really aren't debating weather or not it's possible to bring Breakdown back to life, we're debating weather or not he actually died in the first place. One can be debated because it involves future events that may or may not actually happen while the other can't because there's already evidence saying that he died. He was dismembered and his eye was clearly not light so that means he was in fact dead.

    As for the eye being light at the end of Nemesis Prime, that's not really proof of his life being restored even if you could actually see it. His body was being used as a life support system for Silas and wasn't moving. We saw in a Operation Breakdown that M.E.C.H. knows how their Optics work and Breakdown's eye was working when it wasn't even installed in his head so there is an alternate explanation for why the eye would be working even while Breakdown was dead. If he were in fact alive in that clip why wasn't he moving? There wasn't anything keeping from moving except for the fact he was a corpse.
     
  14. CelticMutt

    CelticMutt Herald of Thundercracker

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    Stasis lock. Aka cybertronian coma.
     
  15. WoundSave

    WoundSave Well-Known Member

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    fundamental difference between cliffjumper/skyquake and breakdown's death - dark energon. Breakdown was hauled in by Mech right after he "died", and we never got conclusive proof that he was 100% dead. Cliff/Sky got turned into zombies, they're not coming back.


    said it before will say it again

    UNICRON
    is not dead, commentary in the season 1 bluray says so. he will be back, so stop arguing about it.
     
  16. optimusprime42

    optimusprime42 Autobot Leader

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    maybe this time a planet eatting robot
     
  17. Cailieg

    Cailieg Member

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    Can someone link the Breakdown picture that looks like he has some of Nemesis Prime's parts on him? That image was yummy.

    Alexis
    *smiles*
     
  18. Bountyan

    Bountyan Well-Known Member

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    I'm still in the "Breakdown is dead" camp.

    If being decapitated in this universe wasn't a fatal injury, why did Optimus have such a tough time deciding whether or not to shoot Megatron in the head? Why did Knock Out bring his buzzsaw to Bulkhead's neck to finish him off? Why did Arcee put her blade to Starscream's neck for a means of killing him?

    If they can't put a freaking voicebox back into a Transformer and have it work right, I doubt they can do the same with reattaching an entire head.
     
  19. SouthtownKid

    SouthtownKid Headmaster

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    uh-oh, bad news, SaberPrime.
     
  20. SaberPrime

    SaberPrime Well-Known Member

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    Seeing a severed head and dismembered body is conclusive proof that he was 100% dead. Quit saying that there is no proof when it's clear as day that there is. I even posted a screen cap of that proof. It's also on the wiki page. If that's not proof of death then there is no proof that Cliffjumper or Skyquake are dead either. They were zombies but so what, a dismembered body doesn't mean dead so why should zombies mean dead? Seeing the spark of Unicron blow up apparently doesn't mean dead either so why should anything mean dead.

    Breakdown is freaking dead. Dismembered, no head, no optic lights, dead. There is in fact proof of it. It's fact, he's dead. He may not be be "not coming back" dead but is most defiantly "we saw his corpse on camera" dead.

    It's fiction, the writers can do whatever the hell they want. However they claimed that when they kill a character in this series that they aren't bringing them back. So if Breakdown does come back that means they're going against their word because they did in fact kill him.

    I said it before and I'll say it again. We saw his gawd damn spark freaking explode, he's freaking dead. Commentary can kiss my aft pipe. I saw him die so I don't give a flying Rattrap's aft what the commentary says because the commentary is not in fiction. What is in fiction is that he's freaking dead so stop arguing about it. Did you see that picture I posted earlier of the empty spark chamber, that's proof of death. Where the heck is your proof? You don't freaking have any because they're freaking dead.

    To put it another way if there's no proof of their deaths then we never saw Breakdown's dismembered body. We just saw Airachnid's first strike then we never saw his body again till Nemesis Prime. No that didn't happen then he's dead. Unicron, they were in his spark chamber Optimus opens the Matrix and puts Unicron is Stasis Lock so that means his spark is still there right? No OK then he's freaking dead.
     

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