I do not visit this site often, maybe once a week. But, when I do it seems almost w/o exception that any "new" product that comes out from the Transformers universe is just ab bunch of repaints. I honestly think there are only about five molds to which all TF's come from. That is an extreme, but my point is that these people expect us to pay the same inflated (and in some cases, like $45 deluxes, hyper inflated) price for every release.

I fear two things will happen. #1 Hasbro's price increases will flush out the market and sink the brand into unprofittable and then #2 they will sell it to the devil himself, Disney. Just like Marvel comics did. As far as i can see #1 is happening now. Almost w/o exception all the major retailers have FOC figures shelfwarming. None would be sold if it were not for Shockwave, and even the people who like him are dissatisfied because of the size. And besides diehard TF fans, noone is going to be shelling out for a five figure $16 a pop combiner like Bruticus. I see dark days ahead for commerically released TF's.

 

Hasbro and Takara are the ones producing new molds. eHobby and the Collector's Club (who are producing these) can ONLY release repaints. Because eHobby and the Collector's Club produce molds in much smaller numbers than Hasbro and Takara, their prices are much higher. What they release is completely seperate to what Hasbro and Takara do, they are produced in addition to retail toys not instead of retail toys.

I don't get what you actually want from the Club and eHobby. All they can do are repaints of available molds; what would you call 'selected' molds?

 

I'll never understand how someone too good for SG can hold up Blue Bluestreak as the epitome of desirable.

Nostalgia for Diaclone and enthusiasm for cheesy SG Club fiction are equally valid excuses for releasing the things you already have, in different colors, so that you may buy them.

 

What you claim above is an oxymoron. You say that the 3rd party co can only use old molds (thus eliminating the cost of paying for a mold, the most expensive part of creating a toy) and yet in the next sentence you say ehobby and CC produce molds.
This is what I think really happens. Hasbro orders and uses the mold for all the primary characters they believe will gross them the most cash. Then, after milking that for all its worth, they then either sell or lease the mold to the 3p Co's to rerelease said mold as a "repaint" (and even if the mold doesn;'t look like the original as long as the colors are the same they can call it a character)and sell it at an inflated price because they know you all will buy it. I am actually convinced that some of you would sell your souls (if such a thing was possible) for a repaint or redeco. The fact is the repaint should be a lot cheaper since the mold cost is eliminated.

 

Would SG Roller be super useful and go roaring off into battle all by himself?  

 

eHobby and the Club produces molds but they do not produce new molds.

Nope. Not true at all. Perhaps you should start visiting the site more than once a week.

 

I may not know everything there is no know about TF's, but I can assure you I know how the plastics industry works. I am an accountant for a major plastics manufacturer. We don't make toys, but we do injection molding just like the co's that make TF's. And I do have to add that no Chinese kids are having their hands burned off at our facility to make said toys either. We pay a living wage and benefits. But, I digress. I think I am right about my assessment of Hasbro's business model. If you do not you have to come with something more than "Nope, not true"

 

The hell?

Yeah you really nice to check the site more than every so often, waaaaaay more often actually, if you're going to spout off like that and expect anyone to take you seriously.

 

Well, IDW Roller DID kick Blitzwing's ass...

But yeah, I wonder what SG Roller would be like...

 

So, let me get this straight. I can be an accountant in the injection molding industry and not have a creditible opinion on how the industry works, yet if I start frequenting the site more and have an opinion more attuned to what you want to be true then you would find my facts more credible. No thanks. the truth is the truth if you like or not and I will not lie just to appease a very small group of fanboys. Your comment is ridicious. And what in the hell does it have to do with what I said about how you are continually fleeced out of your money? Your response is comparable to a crackhead who doesn't like someone telling them their habit is affecting thier paying the rent. Please elaborate with something more intelligible than your post as its context glosses right over what I said.

 

I don't see how that could be true, yet you don't seem to know the simple fact that lower production numbers mean a higher priced product. Both Hasbro and the club have stated this.

 

SG Roller has square wheels.  

 

1. Cut the bullshit attitude.
2. No, being an accountant in your industry isn't relevant unless you have access to the in's and out's of the actual numbers regarding production and cost from the actual toy companies. You claim to understand Hasbro's business philosophy when your post largely sounds like the stereotypical "FU HASBLOW!" line of crap that some people do spew from time to time. Unless you can provide actual info that collectors (and the marketplace in general, since Hasbro's market is largely kids and parents, compared to Takara) are being fucked over by shady business practices, than by all means start providing actual info. Right now, you're not providing anything beyond conspiratorial crap that Hasbro's out to screw us. Hasbro's out to make money, but trying to make money does not equal trying to screw their fanbase.
3. You brushed off someone's position and stated your own as fact, when your position is no more an opinion than anyone else's. You're expecting people to cede to your position simply because you stated it, not because you have any actual knowledge regarding the toy industry and why things are the way they are.
4. If you HAD visited the site more often, shit like this gets explained regularly by those that are knowledgeable. We are, by and large, hardly a group of fanboys trying to will our wishes into existence (though some here don't exactly help with their positions and the way they're articulated). I've been here four years now, roughly, and it's largely a nice community that can share info with you for those that are not in the know. You learn from experience. We're a friendly, informative bunch, if you're willing to not be an arrogant jerk while posting.

So yeah, visit the site more often. Learn something. Right now, it doesn't appear you know very much at all. I'm not trying to be a dick, but some random person coming in here and spouting opinions in the way you have (and then being stunned that you're catching flak for it) isn't someone I'm going to view very highly at first.

 

It is rather naive to believe that businessment that are out to get every dime out of you that they can will tell you the truth on this subject. You are right about the lower procution numbers, but what about the mold cost? do you even have a clue how expensive it is just for a mold for a head, let alone the body?

Do the research and come back to this topic. I will give you a hint. We just created a new tote here and the mold for the lid alone (which is not even detailed like a head would be) ran us around $150k before shipping and duty.

 

Where do you work buddy? Unless I am asking you about how many burgers your local McD's flipped today then shove off. I am not trying to be nasty but I am just reflecting your attitude. I have access to all the books here because I am the payables manager. Can you tell me what the cost of prime is right now, let alone the cost to freight a mold? No? Then what makes you think you know anything about the discussion you butted into? My statemtns are facts and i can back them up.

Can you?

I don't hate Hasbro. I am giving everyone information they normally do not have access to so they can make an informed decision and maybe even reflect on where their money is going. The way you talk I suspect you either work for them or are so addicted to your plastic crack that you would actually get angry over the facts.

 

Another fact is that they are paying no more than $1 an hr for labor which is your most biggest variable expense. So, why is it that you can buy one of our shelves with over 10lbs of prime in it, and a living wage being paid for $30, yet 4 oz and $1 an hr labor runs you $16? Why is that? Think about that and come back.

I honestly think my comment on a child burning off his hand so you can have your MP Thundercracker touched a nerve in you. And it should.


LBS- And who gets to decide who's being a "jerk" and who is just trying to be informative? You perhaps? And then you turn around any say you are nice? Geez...I'd hate to be around when you are angry.

 

Lemme take one crack at this, since I think we're getting some muddled terminology in here which is probably leading to some mutual mis-understanding, especially since you're an industry person.

So here's the really high-level lifecycle of Hasbro toy-design (most of this information gleaned from interviews and panels at conventions etc.)

1. Toy is designed conceptually

2. Prototype is constructed

• Iin the old days these were made by hand from practical materials, clay etc.
• This phase is different now with computer aided design etc.)

3. Once the final design is approved, a steel tooling (aka the mold) is created.

4. The first use of a tooling is usually a mass-market release, often in multiple countries. many factors are involved, but mostly due to economy of scale, Hasbro/Takara-Tomy is able to offer these toys *relatively* inexpensively.

5. USUALLY, Hasbro/T-T will later reissue the same toy using the same tooling at retail in a new deco ("repaint"), this is a way for them to further recoup the investment in the molds, by getting a second round of sales with no further back-end investment.

• In the current era, the toolings are often designed with an extra head (and sometimes other parts), to make the 2nd mold use more unique, by doing this ahead of time, this adds no additional cost.
• SOMETIMES (more often, but still infrequently, in years gone by), Hasbro/T-T will create a new tooling(mold) (or modify the exisiting tools) to create a new head etc.
• This has a negative effect on the margins they'll glean from the 2nd deco, but they have learned over the years that new tooling tends to equate to more robust sales on the second run (hence the "pre-tooling" of the extra heads in most current molds)

6. E-Hobby, The TFCC, speciality retailers, etc. will occasionally approach Hasbro/T-T with a request for a limited edition product.

• These toys can normally be expected to sell just a few hundreds of units maybe in the low-thousands
• In the case of retailers, more, but still less than a mass-global release

7. Because the exclusive toy will be sold in compartively small numbers, Hasbro/T-T are unable to offer to design an entirely new toy for these audiences, as it would be impossible to recoup the costs on the initial run.

• If it were to ONLY be used on that inital run, the toy would lose it's "exclusivity", or else you end up in the same boat but in reverse, Hasbro releasing repaints of club toys.

8. Sometimes, the Club etc. will adust their margins to allow for a small change to the mold (a new head, etc.), which is usually amortized across a "set" of toys by offering several other figures with just deco-changes.

9. Because the exclusive figure will be a short-run using the production-facilities used for the main-line toys, only molds which are currently being used for mass-market toys (ideal scenario from Hasbro/T-T's perspective), or else toolings which are compatible for the current production-line configuration and also physically available (ie. not packed up in a warehouse someplace) are made available to the Club/E-Hobby to pick from

10. Hasbro/T-T also has to approve the deco choices/names/etc. that the speciality-seller wants to use, to ensure that there are no legal conflicts or overlapp with their main line offerings.

11. The exclusive figures are produced in small numbers (often with extra paint applications, premium packaging, and other perks), and are offered up at a premium rate.

It's no conspiracy, just business.

Not sure what your company produces, but if a customer came to you and said "We want you to produce us a limited run of 200 couplers of a unique design based on new molds that youn have to design, and then break the molds so they can never be used again" Would your management offer them the same price as they would for a customer that wanted 100,000 units produced using a standard mold?

 

 

Fucking please. I work for a background checking company pal.

Again, you post like an arrogant prick, you get blowback. That's your fucking problem, not mine. Go right on posting your bullshit if that makes you happy.

We're a knowledgable fanbase if you'd bother to take the time to learn that, but it doesn't appear you're interested in that.

 

Most of waht you said is true, but you leave out the human factor of greed. A co makes more than enough, in most cases, on a mold the 1st time around. You have what you would call maximizing profits. Rather than re-investing and creating new molds, they reuse the same ones with different colorant and pass it off as new. I assure you they are not losing money. We set the production minimums well above loss estimates. How much more so do you think they practice this with a retail giant like Hasbro?

You also left out all the costs associated with production. If you could see an example you would understand that the profit margin on anything is always high, let alone for a "licensed" item like these. Do you really think it costs more to produce the family dollar KO's than it does for Hasbro's products. You are paying for the brand. Just like buying nIke shoes vs others. It is not a quality issue. It is a greed issue. Hasbro could sell you a deluxe for $8.99 and still bank a 50% profit. They choose not to because the upper management wants huge bonuses, perks, yearly 10% raises, and vacations. It is not a conspiracy theory. It is a fact.

 

You didn't intelligently answer my questions. You called me nasty names and cursed at me. In knowing that I cannot take anything you say as a serious conversation. It appears you have some real anger issues as at the end of the day thisis just a friendly conversation. And you remind me of a cousin of mine that was addicted to heroin. He used to flip out like you did when someone would present the facts of his addiction. I pray you can find peace.


Listen, I did not intend to derail the initial conversation. I have said what I need to say. If someone wants to discuss it further please PM me. I aplogize to anyone who felt this derailed the topic at hand.