Dreamwave G1 v2 cover poster

Discussion in 'Transformers General Discussion' started by ShockBlastWave, Dec 22, 2011.

  1. ShockBlastWave

    ShockBlastWave Active Member

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    I know there was a poster that connected all covers from Dreamwave's G1 vol 2 series, but I can't seem to find a big version of it.
    I have a triple screen at work, and would like to use it as a wallpaper.
    I googled for it, but without result, so I hope that someone here can help me out.
    1050pixels in height or something like that is what I'm looking for.
    Small version in attachment to see what I'm talking about.
     

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  2. Spalah

    Spalah Well-Known Member

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    Got only this:
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
  3. Valkysas

    Valkysas Attack Buffalo

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    So... much... squatting...
     
  4. Nevermore

    Nevermore It's self-perpetuating a parahumanoidarianised!

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    So many weird proportions, wonky physics and puffy robots...
     
  5. spikex

    spikex Nightbird is my bitch

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    Haha! Grimlock switched sides!
     
  6. Nevermore

    Nevermore It's self-perpetuating a parahumanoidarianised!

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    Oddly, he did that in volume 1.

    In volume 2, he's back with the Autobots, but suddenly sports a Decepticon logo he didn't have in volume 1.
     
  7. SouthtownKid

    SouthtownKid Headmaster

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    I have never understood the hate. I like that art so much better than a lot of what we've gotten more recently. To me, a lot of the DW stuff better captured the vibe of the cartoons, where a lot of the IDW stuff (especially early on) went back to the more comic-booky look I thought we'd put behind us.

    What some people call "puffy" I see as the robots having the appearance of having mass. Then I look at something like the upcoming Rodimus cover of MTMtE #1, and the style of drawing, the inking linework, and the coloring style all conspire to make the characters and the art in general look flat in comparison. I look at the DW picture above and I immediately think of the cartoon. I look at the upcoming MTMtE covers and think "flat" and wonder if the artist would rather be drawing super-heroes for one of the Big-2 more than robots.
     
  8. Omega_Sentinel

    Omega_Sentinel Well-Known Member

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    Better than G1 artwork but still weird.
     
  9. Nevermore

    Nevermore It's self-perpetuating a parahumanoidarianised!

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    Early on? Are you talking about E.J. Su? Let me dig up an old comparison I did years ago:
    [​IMG] [​IMG]

    Bumblebee having feet larger than his torso doesn't give me the impression of "mass". Metal bodies with rounded edges don't give me the impression of "mass" either. They look like inflatable beach toys to me, not like robots made of metal.

    The image at the top of this thread contains so many instances of Just What The Hell. Megatron's fusion cannon is tiny, Bumblebee has ginormous feet (I wonder what his alternate mode is supposed to look like - a Volkswagen with a hood three times the size of the passenger cabin?), half the robots appear to be floating and don't seem to be affected by gravity at all, Blaster is pointing his gun at Optimus Prime's back (which is hardly surprising, as he's not even looking at his gun), Optimus Prime has a giraffe neck, Overdrive's pose is defying the laws of physics in too many ways to count, Soundwave and Bruticus are employing the tactic known as "pelvic thrust"...
     
  10. SouthtownKid

    SouthtownKid Headmaster

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    "Realism"? That's your only criteria for comic book art? And only for vehicles? Holy crap. I still have never been able to sit all the way through any of the "-ation" minis -- despite my overwhelming love for Furman's work -- thanks to the art. Yeah, okay, Su can draw a more accurate to life VW bug. Sometimes. But look at his people! Look at his panel-to-panel- storytelling! Look at the inking! Look at the coloring he was stuck with! The storytelling is awful. I'm sorry. I hate to say that about anyone's work, but I can't stand to look at it. And flat. Although the flatness comes down more on the backs of the unpracticed inking and awful coloring in those books. The inking was all completely dead line-weight as if inked with a technical pen in a very poor imitation of Otomo or someone. And mood? Tone? Rhythm and flow in storytelling? Forget it. Completely absent.

    If you don't like the DW stuff, okay, I guess, but to hold up the early IDW stuff as something that compares favorably to anything is complete madness. What a huge step backwards that was. Some of the more recent sketches and stuff I've seen from Su look worlds improved, although I have no way of knowing if the improvement extends to his storytelling. But Infiltration? Escalation? Like a sharp stick in the eye. I own them. I just have never been able to make myself read more than a couple pages.
     
  11. Nevermore

    Nevermore It's self-perpetuating a parahumanoidarianised!

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    Su delivered some breathtaking dynamic storytelling.

    Escalation #5 had one of the most stunning Optimus Prime vs. Megatron battles ever.
    TFArchive - Transformers comics, cartoons, toys and everything else!
    TFArchive - Transformers comics, cartoons, toys and everything else!
    TFArchive - Transformers comics, cartoons, toys and everything else!
    TFArchive - Transformers comics, cartoons, toys and everything else!

    Or how about the "car chase" in Devastation?
    TFArchive - Transformers comics, cartoons, toys and everything else!
    TFArchive - Transformers comics, cartoons, toys and everything else!
    TFArchive - Transformers comics, cartoons, toys and everything else!

    That's miles above anything Pat Lee could ever dream of delivering. He fails at basic sequential storytelling. Not to mention facial expressions:
    Dull surprise - Transformers Wiki

    I give you the coloring, but Dreamwave's candy colors weren't particularly good either. Sure it was eye-catching, but that says nothing about actual quality.

    Again, Su manages to catch dynamic action amazingly well. You get an actual feel of "being in the middle of the situation" instead of just witnessing it.
     
  12. SouthtownKid

    SouthtownKid Headmaster

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    What are you talking about? Those are awful! He shows no skill in moving the camera around the action, instead choosing a series of boring static shots, often perfectly flat side shots -- as bad as if they were a 1970s Hanna-Barbera cartoon, his humans look like cardboard cutouts, there is no sense of mood or of texture in anything, and he overuses speed lines to hide the lack of backgrounds or dynamism.

    I mean, a boring flat side shot of Optimus' rifle firing, followed by an impossibly flat side shot of Megatron's cannon... with inconsistent perspective to top everything else off. Inconsistent even within the same panel -- even within the same OBJECT. I... words fail me. This is deeply depressing stuff.

    And again, his layouts and panel-to-panel storytelling are awful.


    There are so many problems there, I don't know where to begin. He's got "clipping" issues where because of his sometimes wonky perspective, the cars overlap in the physical space they should be occupying. His sense of scale between the cars, not to mention their relation to the camera, is off. The proportions of the cars themselves are occasionally as inconsistent as anything you were complaining about, and the perspective on Wheeljack (?) on page 4 panel 3 is a million miles off. And no, it's NOT an exciting chase. Especially not if someone is used to reading a million times better in a hundred different Japanese comics over the past couple decades. Why not? Because the inking here is garbage. Every panel is flattened by the inexpert inking. There is zero sense of depth thanks to the same thin, dead line weight being used on everything. In an emergency, the coloring could potentially still save it, but that is out of the question here. I honestly believe these comics would have read slightly better in black and white.

    Why are you singling out Lee? He was far from the only DW artist.

    Eye-catching by itself is at least a huge improvement. And being more animation-style was nice, considering the subject matter. IDW's early coloring is indefensible. Easily decades behind industry standards and a huge step down from what DW was delivering.

    Look at page 1 from the very next issue:
    TFArchive - Transformers comics, cartoons, toys and everything else!
    There are at least 20 things on this one page that flat-out make me want to weep. From horrible panel composition, to really bad perspective, to horrible lighting/spotting of blacks, to poor, poor drapery. It is a disaster. And that's even before you get to the coloring, which is also just terrible.

    No you don't. I don't know where you get off even claiming that. Reading these words from you feels completely surreal. I mean, you posted the links. We're looking at the same pages. But his fundamental weaknesses feel like a slap in the face to me. I get angry just looking at them. I don't know how you can take it, much less excuse it.
     
  13. Valkysas

    Valkysas Attack Buffalo

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    Because that's the name of the thing that created the lumpy disaster that this topic is about.
     
  14. SouthtownKid

    SouthtownKid Headmaster

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    Yeah, but if you read my posts, the ones he was responding to, I was saying I missed the DW art in general.

    Here we go:

     
  15. Valkysas

    Valkysas Attack Buffalo

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    You made no distinction of who you were talking about. Given Pat Lee did a lot of Dreamwave stuff, it was natural to assume you were talking about the guy whose art this topic was about.
     
  16. SouthtownKid

    SouthtownKid Headmaster

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    Fair enough.
     
  17. Valkysas

    Valkysas Attack Buffalo

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    Also, pretty much every Dreamwave artist aside from Pat Lee has drawn for IDW, so if you're comparing DW art to IDW art, the argument is pretty much limited to "Pat Lee vs. everyone else"
     
  18. Jetcracker54

    Jetcracker54 Fire Truck

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    the only bot in those pictures with decent proportion is blaster from what i can tell and maybe the insecticons
     
  19. SouthtownKid

    SouthtownKid Headmaster

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    Okay, two things:

    One:
    NOTICE: "a lot" (as opposed to all) and "especially early on"


    and Two:

    For those with eyes, it's easy to see that some of the people who;ve previously drawn at DW have adapted their style at IDW to fit a new aesthetic. Not always for the better, imo. And the coloring -- while MILES better than the "-ation" days -- is still not always what it could be. I miss the color holds on interior inked lines, for one thing.


    Now I do find Ramondelli's art highly exciting for its ambition, his color sense and his lush, more painterly approach. His sequential storytelling still needs a lot of work along with more of a focus on clarity within many of the panels themselves, but he's at least trying stuff.

    Roche is another IDW artist whose work I generally enjoy, although again, the inking and especially the coloring play a BIG part. How much I enjoyed the art in Last Stand of the Wreckers varied wildly, often from page to page. Bringing that back to the beginning of the conversation, Roche has a certain cartooniness about his work, particularly the faces, that I've seen some people complain about, much as others complain about puffiness or whatever in Lee's work. And again here with Roche, a sense of cartooniness or exaggeration doesn't bother me.
     
  20. ShockBlastWave

    ShockBlastWave Active Member

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    Only one poster replying to my question (thanks spalah, I found those too), and then 2 pages of bashing Pat Lee/Dreamwave... Seems I brought up a delicate subject here...:) 

    Anyways, seems no one else has the pic I'm looking for?
     

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