Don't they all cheat a little?

Discussion in 'Transformers Movie Discussion' started by Prime crotch, May 24, 2007.

  1. Prime crotch

    Prime crotch Well-Known Member

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    One of the complaints I keep hearing is that the movie designs cheat when transforming, but I wonder don't they all? I mean even on the G1 cartoon the animators did it, either by changing size or other "tricks". Optimus Prime for example in robot form didn't exactly had a boxed shapped chest like the toy, since he transformed from a flat-nose truck.
    Although in both cases its not really cheating.
    What's your take on it?
     
  2. redsquadron

    redsquadron Token idiot...

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    Of course! The G1 cartoon models cheated all the time. Characters often seemed to 'melt' rather than transform between modes, arms sprouting from nowhere and solid metal bulging, warping, shrinking and changing shape completely.

    The more recent series' have been more 'accurate', but then they move like animated toys when in action.
     
  3. RandomFerret

    RandomFerret Fuzzy Forever

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    The only ones that don't seem to cheat at all are the energon/cybertron cgi. And I think everybody can agree that it's not worth it. Those character models SUCK.
     
  4. Rumble02

    Rumble02 Radicon of Obliticons

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    I agree. people have to face one simple fact. ITS NOT REALITY AND WONT SEEM COMPLETLY REAL BECAUSE IT ISNT. ok im done
     
  5. smkspy

    smkspy is one nice fucking kitty

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    Thats why the argument is used against the movie robots. Since they did cheat, just like every other transformer series, then the designs based on 'realism' is just BS, and we could have more traditional robots. I'm happy with what we've got so oh well.
     
  6. Cory Bauer

    Cory Bauer Well-Known Member

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    The key here is that the movies bots carry the ILLUSION of not cheating — if they are, you can't tell — where-as the cartoons would cheat right in front of your face with no efforts to hide it. The interiors were the biggest issue; you'd see Bumblebee transform, clearly filling his entire car interior with robot parts, and then Spike would open the door and get in as a fully-usable interior magically appeared. The movie bots actually sort out all the car parts, and it would APPEAR that they do not cheat to do it, either. And that's the important thing: the APPEARANCe of no cheating.
     
  7. RandomFerret

    RandomFerret Fuzzy Forever

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    It was up until a few months ago every other thread was some apologist trying to say that the redesigns were absolutely necessary and alternators designs couldn't have possibly worked on screen because of this and that and blah blah blah.

    The movie designs look COOL! They're not a compromise, they're a stylistical choice.
     
  8. JusticeSabre

    JusticeSabre FLUKE the SYSTEM.

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    Where are the interiors on the live-action bots?
     
  9. Prime crotch

    Prime crotch Well-Known Member

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    But it's not exactly cheating, it's more like animation quirks they use that are accepted as normal. 2D animation has theirs, for example when animators use a colorful moving background to give emphasis to an atack, and so do 3D specially when you want a movie with real actors and not CGI ones.
     
  10. Cory Bauer

    Cory Bauer Well-Known Member

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    The different, and necessary, aesthetic approach was this:

    - Alternators have robot arms, heads, and legs wrapped inside a car shell.

    - Bayformers create their robos arms & legs from components of the actual car.

    The key is that Bayformers don't need to stow away limbs somewhere in the car — resulting in a disguise so good you wouldn't even know your car was a Transformer — and the amount of kibble strewn about the robot is largely diminished because those parts actually get used to help build the robot instead of just hanging off it. This has the added bonus of allowing more mobility, as the robots are not hindered in their movement by large chunks of kibble hanging about. By doing this though, a different aesthetic is obviously created: it's not so much a car that's sprouted arms and legs as it is a car that's reconfigured itself into a bipedal shape.

    But in a roundabout way, that actually has a lot in common with G1, as the animators essentially did the same thing with their animated characters, only instead of sorting out all the parts they just kind of liquified them. And obviously the cartoon models were far far simpler, because they could be.

    Anything beyond this however was obviously just artistic license.

    An interior is a hollow space — why would it exist on the robot? The seats fold down, and it all closes up, like an Alternator but more complex.
     
  11. redsquadron

    redsquadron Token idiot...

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    Who says the movie Transformers are cheating? For all we know, every single part is accounted for. Just because we can't track all of those panels means nothing - A slowed down wire frame at our disposal would answer the problem either way, but until then insisting they cheat is pointless.
    They certainly don't give the impression of 'cheating' to me.
     
  12. Tr4nce

    Tr4nce TrancEaddict

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    Are you the one posting under the 'Spanbauer' alias on the Official Transformers Movie Messageboards? If so, then I'd like to commend you. Always good posts, and smacking some sense into some of the posters there. I read those messageboards alot, but most of the posters there seem to be either badly informed or just plain stupid. Man, I'm glad I'm on these forums.

    Keep it up dude ;) 

    Oh, yeah. It also astounds me how they are the 'Official Movie Messageboards', but somehow they always get their 'news' from us, TFW2005. Lol.
     
  13. HyperGeek_1984

    HyperGeek_1984 Herr Doktor

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    Dude, you can blatantly see Sam sit inside Bumblebee in the new trailer. Blackout and Starscream both have full cockpits, and we haven't seen anything to suggest that the other bot's don't have full interiors as well.
     
  14. Valkysas

    Valkysas Attack Buffalo

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    there's no proof the movie designs cheat. the metal panels fold up and become armor on different parts of the robot, and those panels are moved around to where ever they're needed on the robot.

    "cheating" would involve resizing parts, making parts vanish or come from nowhere at all, and stuff like that.

    since there are so many panels folded up and bent to become the armor on the TFs, its safe to say that no parts vanish in robot mode. they're pretty much all accounted for. No parts resize from what I can tell either. So... they don't cheat.

    People just assume the designs cheat because they're so damn complex and have so many parts moving around that it's hard fo wrap our minds around it.

    maybe the DVD will have a feature where you can watch the models transform clearly to see how they did it.

    Where's the interior on Alternator Smokescreen? it's transformed and changed into something else. Where is it on Alternator Sideswipe? folded all up to where you can't see it anymore.

    same applies here.
     
  15. KA

    KA PENIS GOES WHERE?!!

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    its not cheating unless the balls touch.
     
  16. Chaos Prime

    Chaos Prime Combaticon

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    Well it's a time saving method in animation. Everyone does it. The frames are going to go by so fast, and their's going to be so much going on at the time, that your eye isn't going to notice all the corners they cut. You might spot a few, but not all of them. For the movie, I bet the same principles applied. All their transformations are going to be so busy, and they'll throw in some motion blur for good measure, that you most likely won't even notice.
    On a side note: for one of the movie wallpapers, I THINK I even noticed a little polygon overlap on Starscream. I could be mistaken, but it looks enough like overlap to me.
     
  17. 9.8m/s^2

    9.8m/s^2 What's in a name?

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    Well, there's surely other underlying technology at work, too. I mean, Jazz and the other Autobots didn't crash on Earth with leather seats, carpeted floorboards, and a bumblebee air freshener; they had to mimic those on the spot when they picked their Earth modes.

    Call it what you will: morphing, molecular manipulation, whatever. There's always going to be "cheating." Really, though, who cares? They look awesome.
     
  18. Ra88

    Ra88 Dutchman!

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    Corey doesn't deserve any praise IMO...One look at his posting behaviour on Don Murphy.Net, and you'll see what I mean: Constantly contradicting him, ON PURPOSEFULLY ignoring the points of others in favor of idiotic generizations (like PSing the G1 Bumblebee statue into a pic to argue G1 bots couldn't work, while the guy he's debating with EXPLICITLY said he wanted more G1 esque bots, NOT direct translations of the G1 and Alternators versions).

    I'm a liker, and even then he drives me insane with frustration.
     
  19. Sso02V

    Sso02V Injector Has a Posse

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    The Starscream wallpaper looks the worst out of the lot of them. I like Starscreams movie design, but the wallpaper looks completely untextured and it's using the wrong head.
     
  20. Ceerad

    Ceerad Well-Known Member

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    Cheaters!!


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