Don't shoot me!

Discussion in 'Transformers Movie Discussion' started by jametron, Mar 15, 2008.

  1. jametron

    jametron Release the Kraken!!!!!!!

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    I realize that with a movie like this they can't always do everything logically... if they did it would be a boring film! (see: Why did the Death Star have to wait to get around Yavin to destroy Yavin IV instead of destroying Yavin first? Dramatic tension) So, don't get me wrong, this is no bash... but something occured to me the other day while watching TF.

    When the Autobots are fleeing Sector 7 (one of my absolute favorite parts) it seemed to me that if Optimus Prime transformed and threw the kids inside, then hauled ass, they would have gotten away! So, theres that... BUT that would have been boring so I'm glad it didn't happen that way.

    Anyway, what's funny to me about that is instead of Prime using his disguise (i.e. truck) to hide, as is the whole nature of Transformers on Earth, instead this 30 foot tall robot decides to run through the city and then HIDES under a bridge!!! It'a kinda funny when you think about it!
     
  2. Illusion

    Illusion Well-Known Member

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    I won't shoot you, but I'm going to bother you with my own opinion ;) 

    You have a good point about entertainment vs. realism and in general, I agree with that (excellent example with Star Wars there), but in regards to the scene you described, my opinion is this it, and other scenes like it, downgraded the movie significantly.

    I'm glad you found it funny that a gigantic robot that can disguise itself as an Earth vehicle decided not to use his disguise, and instead chose to hide under a bridge, but personally, I hate how the movie essentially made the Autobots into a bunch of bumbling fools who can't even evade a bunch of worthless humans, while their counterparts, the Decepticons, have seemingly no trouble whatsoever at staying out of sight.
    Off the top of my head, the only scene involving animated robots I actually skip every time I watch this movie, is the one where the Autobots are "hiding" (but failing miserably at it) outside Sam's house, and that's because it makes me thoroughly depressed.

    Sheesh, how on Cybertron the Autobots managed to avoid getting all wiped out within a couple weeks during the war on Cybertron is beyond me. *rolls eyes*

    Getting back to the bridge-hiding scene, I'd have preferred the cost of animating Prime in robot form had been spent to give more personality to some of the other robots, Autobots or Deceps. Would've made the movie much better. Same about the ridiculous scene with the 'bots hiding outside the house (although it was in part intended as a "character-building" scene for the Autobots) - shoulda skipped that in favour of more meaningful, intelligent, and perhaps still humourous (less dumb obviously) scene elsewhere.

    I'm all for making the Autobots lovable and even humourous in their attempts to get by on Earth (especially in relation to human/organic creature vs. robot culture), but please try to make them seem more like competent soldiers, who have spent the majority of their +millennia-long existence fighting a goddamned war.

    I'm not expecting a Hollywood movie to make sense in everything, far from it actually (realism often has an uncanny way of making entertainment less entertaining), but I do prefer at least a hint of intelligence in a movie's entertainment value (humour, action, story).

    Sorry 'bout the rant.
     
  3. Spoiler

    Spoiler Autobot Spoiler

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    *star wars mode on*

    I'm not gonna chance the subject but I gotta reply to this part. Because that Death Star in ANH has to recharge its lasers which takes a very long time, making the rebels still take it out before even getting a shot on Yavin IV...it isn't like the one in ROTJ because that one wasn't going anywhere and could fire multiple times. It didn't have to worry about engines, or shields so they diverted a lot of that towards the laser power.

    *Star Wars mode off*

    Well, they had spotted all the Autobots so I am sure they could recognize them. Not to mention Prime doesn't look like a normal semi with that paintjob so they could spot him easily. Also, Prime is in the middle of the City, not a lot of highways in sight, a semi, believe it or not, takes a little longer than a normal vehicle to speed up, but that is on a straight run. You got Prime, a huge semi, driving down through city streets with more traffic, and Prime, being the human protector he is, isn't gonna smash into vehicles to save himself. That is my take on it.
     
  4. ashion

    ashion Well-Known Member

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    Could also be, because he stayed in his robot mode, he acted as a giant distraction and led the S7 asses away from the rest of the autobots, giving them time to take off and get mixed in amoungst all the other vehicals making them harder to find and track.

    But then it begs the question why he took Sam and Mikaela with him when he could have given them to BB, but yeah its a movie, more dramatic and give BB a reason to follow them and get grabbed and so on.
     
  5. Spoiler

    Spoiler Autobot Spoiler

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    Doh! I knew I forgot to post that one about him being a distraction for the others.

    But yeah, it would have made more sense to go with Bumblebee, or even Jazz at that, because the Solstice is more common to see than a Concept car hahah!
     
  6. Superion33

    Superion33 Banned

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    I remember that scene. I could only shake my head at how lame it was when I saw it in the theatre. Here you have the ultimate leader of a sentient, technologically advanced race from another planet. He is like 50-60 feet tall and sticks out like a sore thumb. And all he can think of doing is hiding under a bridge.

    I think thats where Michael Bay failed in this scene. It would have worked if Prime was the size of a human, for a human to hide under a bridge, but a robot that big just seemed awkward and laughable.

    The only other thing I thought of was the scene in Terminator 2 with the Big Rig truck and Ahnold on the motorcycle. That big rig truck the bad guy drove had a lot more oomph to it than Prime ever did. If they had made a chase scene like that with the humans in their cars and SUVs chasing Prime down that cement waterway, that would have been a LOT cooler than Prime hiding under a stupid bridge.

    Maybe have a few aerial shots of the chase and the route of the cement waterway would have been cool too. Anything would have been cooler than the way they did it.
     
  7. SPLIT LIP

    SPLIT LIP Dry built

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    I think Prime chose to run because he could probably move faster.

    On a clear stretch of straight road sure he could book it, but when going through crowded streets it's just easier and faster to walk. Ratchet, IH, BB and Jazz are much smaller and can elude more without putting other drivers or by-standers at risk.

    At least that's how I saw it.

    EDIT: Again, this may be going more in-depth than the writters had in mind (or maybe not but if he had given the kids to any of the vehicle mode Autobots, what if they got cornered? What are they gonna do, transform and run-off with ground-up humans inside them?
     
  8. Superion33

    Superion33 Banned

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    I think the OP was talking more about how Optimus (a 50 ft tall sentient robot alien from a civilization thats 1000s of years ahead of us) hid under a bridge to escape detection...

    I think the point is the writers didn't really try that hard to come up with a good, believable scene that was also exciting and added to the plot. Rather, it was more along the lines of

    "Hey we need the Autobots to come to Hoover dam. How do we accomplish that. I know! Lets kidnap Sam and Bumblebee and then the Autobots would have to follow. Ok, but how do we kidnap Sam and Bumblebee? I know, lets have Prime hide under a bridge! Awesome idea! Sweet, you wanna get a latte? Sure, we just got done with the day's work in 5 mins - lets go play Dance Dance Revolution!"
     
  9. SPLIT LIP

    SPLIT LIP Dry built

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    Well it worked didn't it?
     
  10. RandomFerret

    RandomFerret Fuzzy Forever

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    Yavin was a gas giant. The Death Star's main weapon was designed to destroy crust-and-mantle type planets. If it had fired on Yavin, the gas would have ignited and killed everybody.
     
  11. smkspy

    smkspy is one nice fucking kitty

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    Prime being a distraction is the typical justification for that idiotic scene, but I gotta agree that what was stupider than him not transforming is Sam and whatshername hitching a ride with Prime and not Bumblebee. They go from being protected by BB for the first half of the movie to Prime because the shift of focus needed to be switched to him. To me that is why the movie beyond special effects is a total failure. Its your typical MB movie of all flash and not substance...the perfect summer blockbuster.
     
  12. SMOG

    SMOG Vocab-champion ArgueTitan

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    QFT!

    Heh... I find that looking for logical errors or incidental stupidity in the TF movie is like staring at the sun. The more you try to focus on just one point, the more you go blind. This thing is a smörgåsbord of badness. :) 

    zmog
     
  13. Superion33

    Superion33 Banned

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    I don't understand your reasoning. Why? You didn't give me a reason, just stating something and passing it off as fact. If it had worked, then people wouldn't have noticed it and we wouldn't be discussing it right now.

    Don't you think it could have been done better? I am not asking for a fine masterpiece, but that scene looked like it was put together at the last minute and crammed in there. Just like most of the movie. It was disjointed and didn't flow. It was more along the lines of the writers sitting down and having a conversation along the lines of:

    Writer 1: Ok guys, we have to write a script about TFs.
    Writer 2: Lets have one scene in the middle of a city!
    Writer 3: We need more exotic locations than that: lets have a desert scene, an arctic scene, a scene at Hoover Dam, a scene on top of Air Force 1, hmmm, what else
    Writer 1: Ok, now what kinda people are going to be in this movie?
    Writer 2: We should have hackers! We can make it a pseudo-techie type of movie with code breakers and maybe even a fire-sale!
    Writer 3: Nah, we should have a shadowy, underground organization that has existed for countless years due to their knowledge of TFs!
    Writer 1: I was thinking more a war movie that focused on a small band of heroes that would bond with the TFs in their fight!
    Writer 2: Don't forget Spielberg wanted the Herbie angle.

    Writer 1: Ok, so we have all these locations and people, how do we make it happen?
    Writer 2: ...
    Writer 3: ...
    Writer 1: ...
    Writer 1: Well?
     
  14. Thundercrackah

    Thundercrackah Well-Known Member

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    Semi truck mode would have been far too slow in the city area, at least in robot mode he could cover more ground and avoid human traffic with more ease than in vehicle mode.

    As for hiding under the bridge, it worked, Sector 7 never found him. End of story.

    Should he have taken Shia and Megan Fox? Probably not.
    But it's obvious he wanted the other Autobots to get out of the area (hence the "Roll out!") and take the heat from Sector 7 himself. Obviously he thought he could lose them and he did, he just didn't plan on the updraft from that chopper knocking the humans off him.

    Annnnd I'm done with this thread. Bye bye.
     
  15. Spoiler

    Spoiler Autobot Spoiler

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    Well...somehow I think the ol fight...Truck-Monkey...

    I think Monkey won...
     
  16. jametron

    jametron Release the Kraken!!!!!!!

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    Haha yeah... they came up with that LONG after 1977!
    But like I said, in reference to SW and TF... this thread isn't meant to bash because it's just a film and I understand the necessity of dramatic tension... I was just pointing out how funny these things seem at face value and stuff.

    We also have to realize that even with the invention of VCR's and DVD players and such, most filmmakers STILL make films with the presumption that people aren't going to watch them thousands of times and scrutinize them... they, like the films of old, are made with the intention of seeing them on the big screen, enjoying 2 hours of escape-ism/entertainment, and moving on.
     
  17. SMOG

    SMOG Vocab-champion ArgueTitan

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    Well... let's not denigrate the craft of cinema TOO much! :) 

    If you consider the amount of time, money and effort from hundreds (thousands?) of individuals to produce a film, doesn't it seem really shameful to not attempt to make something that will stand up to multiple viewings, something that could become "timeless"?

    I disagree with the notion that "films of old" were made as disposable entertainment. There are reasons we look upon many old films as "classics" and it isn't just because they're old.

    In fact, I think films are more disposable now than they've ever been, even with ballooning budgets and the enduring medium of home video.

    There's really no excuse for making a sloppy film... especially when you have 100+ million dollars to play with. Bad is bad. Why make a product like Bay's Transformers when you could make (or at least attempt to make) an Aliens or a Superman or a Raiders of the Lost Ark... just by spending a little more time on a good script?

    zmog
     
  18. jametron

    jametron Release the Kraken!!!!!!!

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    I'm not saying anything is exscusible! I'm saying there was a time when you couldn't rent videos... If you wanted to see a film again, you went back to the theater... most folks didnt... it was one time and that was it. There wasn't much room for picking a film apart. I never said I was advocating for either direction... merely making a statement.
     
  19. SMOG

    SMOG Vocab-champion ArgueTitan

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    No problem. I disagree though, that people didn't go back to see movies again. Remember in the "old days" it didn't cost $15 to go to the movies. Movies played and stayed in circulation longer, and there were fewer things at home to distract (dvds, video games, waaay too many channels of TV, internet). I think people went back to the theaters a lot.

    But even so, my point was just that, paradoxically, old movies that were produced long before the advent of home video often seem to have far fewer gaping plot holes than many new hollywood blockbusters. :) 

    That's not to say that junk movies weren't churned out in any decade (and replayed endlessly in old grindhouses night after night). It just seems like we've gotten a lot less apologetic about the junk we produce (and consume).

    I think one of the things I disagree with here is the idea that somehow home video is what draws our attention to these flaws in movies, making us less forgiving of mindless popcorn fare because we can watch things again with more detail...

    I've seen the TF movie a total of 2 times (once in the theater, once on dvd), and all the major plot holes and flaws were pretty damn apparent the very FIRST time I saw it on big screen. I suspect people that watch the movie again and again (as well as having a very high tolerance for awfulness) are if anything, numbing themselves to the faults in the film... becoming less sensitive to the issues with every repeat viewing. :) 

    zmog
     
  20. sto_vo_kor_2000

    sto_vo_kor_2000 Banned

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    Primes paint job doesnt make him stand out at all amongst other semi's.I worked in the trucking buissness and I cant tell you how many different cab's I've seen with simular or more elaborate paint jobs.

    Most of the owner/operator's tend to really go for elaborate paint jobs.

    Even the cab that Prime scanned had the same paint job.

    The rest of this makes sence.
     

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