Discussion in 'Transformers Movie Discussion' started by Master Fwiffo, Feb 19, 2006.
Good. Then maybe we can stop arguing over it.
We won't, of course, but it's nice to dream.
I had a slight heart attack after he mentioned Cullen back as Prime. That would be so awesome!!!!
I hate Don Murphy. Nothing will ever change that. But I do appreciate he's doing everything he can to get the true Optimus Prime in the movie.
I don't think too many of us mind what alt modes are used, so long as a couple things happen: prime as a truck, seekers as jets, and certain colors for characters, like bumblebee = yellow, sideswipe = red. To me, those things seem like things which would be easy to agree upon. As for voices, I still would prefer cullen as prime and kaye as megatron. Even chalk as prime would be ok. But using a big name actor for the sake of it isn't necessary. It's really a shame that hollywood still hasn't learned that big name stars do not equal blockbusters.
My greatest fear for this film is that it will turn into Troy. Remember that? Sure, it served its function: Helen leaves Menelaus, Greeks attack Troy, Achilles battles and kills Hector, Achilles then dies from an arrow to the heel, Greeks lay seige and destroy Troy. Yet it took a great story and distorted it. Examples: in the film Menelaus is a fat slob, a logical reason why Helen would prefer the more handsome Paris. In reality, Menelaus was a great warrior who was often praised for his good looks. To add insult to injury, the movie people KILL MENELAUS!!! WTF??!! Menelaus survived the war, took Helen back to Sparta and ruled. Odysseus' son Telemachus comes to Sparta to ask Menelaus' advice when he fears for his father's life after 15 years have passed since the end of the Trojan War. Other things it got wrong:
1. Agammemnon did not die at Troy. He survived, only to be killed in the bathtub by his wife Klytemnestra, who was pissed that he had sacrificed their daughter Ipheginia to Artemeis in order to get wind to sail to Troy.
2. The character of Odysseus. He seems to be the only level-headed Greek in the film. But in truth, he took concubines and pillaged and plundered as much, if not more, than the other Greeks.
3. Achilles and the concubine. Not only is her story wrong (I can't remember her name) but the film makes it seem as though Achilles didn't fight because he was torn between her and the war. Hell, the only reason he didn't fight was because he was pissed at Agammemnon. She had nothing to do with it.
4. Hector does not steal Achilles' armor after the fight with Petroclus. That point was essential to the story because it was supreme irony when Hector later fought Achilles while wearing Achilles' armor.
5. HELEN ESCAPES!!! **See part about Menelaus**
Sorry to get off on a Trojan rant there, but I love the stories of Homer and was painfully saddened when Hollywood all but destroyed them. Sad to say, I'm scared in the same way for Transformers. It's not like our voices haven't been heard. Don's made that clear, so has Michael Bay. But I'm afraid that bigger egos will get in the way of telling a good, nostalgic story. I thought the purpose was to make a G1 movie, so to tap into the audience's inner kid; so that the 30 year old guy will say, "Ratchet is the ambulance. Hey, I used to have him. Cool!" Or as soon as Prime speaks all the older folks in the theatre go, "Holy crap! I recognize him. He IS Optimus Prime!"
My point is this: staying true to the story and the idea cannot do any harm to the film. If anything it will help it, thanks to the nostalgia aspect. By "rewriting the mythology" (which is exactly what they did for Troy) you tamper with the myth, and it loses its power. I pray this film does not do that.
RID, Armada and Infiltration have all tried to update/rewrite/modernize the mythology with varying degrees of success. I'm totally with the producers who want to do something along those same lines.
just remember what worked and what didn't work and remember that properties like Batman, Spider-Man, X-Men, etc all succeeded at the box office by providing that balance of keeping the fans happy as well as catching mainstream appeal. I know that sounds like pleasing all the people all the time, but its better than pleasing some of the people (Fantastic 4) or pleasing none of the people (Catwoman, Batman & Robin).
If they just try, they really can not fail. Its just not possible. Transformers will make a splash based on name alone and if they keep its interesting then it can be a long term success too.
Hmm, I dont mind them changing the look of the robots just as long as you can recognise who is who.
The heads/faces being recognisable and the bots not looking too weedy are the only things I'm really hoping for.As for Peter and Frank, I dont think they're gonna be in this whatsoever. I'd like them but it's not a big deal for me if they're not there.
YAM - Yet Another Mythos. Transformers has to be right up there with Batman. How many different takes on this do we need?
From what I've based able to tell this isn't a G1 movie.More a movie based on the G1 concept.We already have a G1 movie on DVD
And in terms of staying true to the story.As long as
1)They're robots from another planet called Cybertron
2)Optimus Prime is the leader of the noble Autobots
3)Megatron leads the evil Decepticons
4)They come/crash land on earth
5)Humans are involved
6)There's a matrix
That's IMO staying true to the story.I mean every TF toon we've had follows that concept.Cullen would be staying true to the nostalgia not the concept
I feel slightly worried now.
Do an "Ultimate" and make it fresh, while at the same time keep the "essence" of the mythos intact? Fine.
Da a John Byrne and change everything you feel like changing just for the sake of changing it? Bah. "Transformers, a story about the heroic Hyperbots from Planet Robottion fighting the evil Destructorbots! Gigantimus Major vs. Machanitron! In theatres July 2006!"
If they don't want to tell the Transformers story.... why even bother? Just make something else. This whole project started out as an updated G1... and it gone to 'it might make a few nods, with characters that look nothing like they should. If this is the course they take, it's going to be bad... even getting/using Cullen wouldn't save the movie. It's starting to sound like a freaken disaster. Even the way Bay speaks of them as robots... 'hot robot on robot fighting action'.... clues me in to the underlying thinking on this project.
Make a G1 film... or let it die.
This is refreshing. This is the kind of update I was hoping for. I'm much more interested in hearing Murphy's twist on production than I am on Bay's. Nice to hear that the film is progressing at a relatively swift pace now.
Nice to get another update as to what's going on with the movie and it's coming closer and closer to being a reality. Personally, I'd like to see them do a whole new take on Transformers to bring something fresh to the table, as I'm getting a bit tired of all the G1 rehashing that's going on in the line right now. I realize there are some fans who won't be happy unless the movie is a shot-for-shot live-action recreation of the cartoon "MTMTE", complete with all the animation errors and Chris Latta resurrected from the dead to do Starscream's voice...but it's time for something new. It's nice the producers are listening to the fans, but this movie will be a disaster if they base too much on the rather vocal whining of the internet fanbase. Cullen and Welker back as Prime and Megatron? I'd love to see Welker reprise his role, as he's an excellent voice actor, or even just show up for a cameo if he doesn't play Megatron. Could do without Cullen, though, as his work wasn't that impressive in the original cartoon.
I don't mind a fresh approach to old material. Spider-Man, Superman, Batman, the XMen and numerous other comic book characters have all thrived with solid reinterpretations for the screen, both big and large. Of course,a reinterpretation can also result in a colassal failure, but so can staying too close to the source material. In other words: simply straying from the established story doesn't mean a thing.
The catch is how it is adopted. Spider-Man's costume was different, but he wasn't put in red and gold armor. Krypton was radiacally different, but it wasn't blown up by Lex Luthor. You can fiddle on the margins all you want, but you can't take away from the franchise's heart. In this case, that heart is Optimus Prime (and to a lesser extent, Megatron). I suppose another voice actor could do a great job with Prime, but like Gary Chalk they will likely do so by adhering closely to what Cullen established. In the case of Megatron, Welker was replaced by Nimoy for the movie, and David Kaye's Megs/Galvy most definately does not sound similar to G1s. The only other voice which I think has a critical sound quality would be Soundwave.
In terms of appearance, I think it depends on whether they are talking robot or alt mode. Prime's had lots of different truck modes, so as long as he's a truck, I don't care what they do, and I think you have similar flexibility with the alt modes of every other character.
For robot modes, the margins are narrower. Changing Prime's appearance dramatically would be akin to changing Superman's or Batman's costume. Yes, every tv show and film (and many times comic artists) have had different costumes, but they were always a variation on the same theme. The same must be done with Prime. Other characters again have a bit more flexibility, but to have any appeal to the fans of the series, a good number of them must be at least recognizable.
It's like Backpack said, look where the thing started and look what it is now. It started as an updated G1 film, now we have folks telling us that some bots may not look the same or Prime may be a different kind of truck. Again, it feels like the beginnings of Armada, where we were told it would be one thing, then it evolved into something totally different.
As far as being a retooling of G1, we've had that. The Micron Trilogy is the new G1 (at least as I see it), complete with G1 homages in names, alt modes, and storylines. That's not to say that they ARE G1. They'll never be. And they'll never capture our hearts and minds the way that classic show did back in the day and still does today. Nostalgia can work if you make it as close to the original series as you can.
I know the film can't be the exact same thing. I understand it, accept it, and in some cases welcome it. I was looking forward to a helicopter Soundwave, and I'd like to see what kind of tank Megs will look like this time around. But I'm scared they're going to just slap on the name to something that just does not feel like Transformers, but more like Machine Robo. I want Cullen and Welker (particularly for Soundwave), and I think we all do, we just are sick of people complaining about it. We know Peter wants to do it, and Frank is the "voice god." I think they can only help the film.
Even though the latest updates scare me a little, I am glad that stuff is getting done. Won't be long now till we get the final answer.
If done well the original Transformers story could actually be IMPROVED upon. With "Batman the animated series" Bruce Timm and Paul Dini really cut all the fat from the source material. We have to remember that Dini and Timm did have a long relationship with the material, they also worked in comics and animation for their entire careers. Not to mention that they had a stroke of genius.
My major concern is that the writers and creators of the upcoming Transformers film arent as familiar with the original material. I am unsure that they understand what is good about it.
You know, I think all this panic is for nothing. The whole 'characters look different' thing is just Bay's way of saying that they're new takes on the old characters (like G1 and Cybertron Soundwave, or G1 and Energon Galvatron). And I doubt Spielberg would allow him to make them 'just robots', remember, that guy is a nut for emotional plots and characters no matter what movie he's involved with.
At this point, it's not a huge issue to me if Cullen and Welker aren't voicing Prime and Megs. I surely hope they do, but if they go the celebrity voice route -- it would suck if they cast them solely based on what names they *think* will put more butts in the seats, rather than the actors who give the best performances.
I just want an entertaining, quality movie with a solid script, realistic-looking CGI, awesome bot battle action scenes, and high-quality performances. And one that's not watered-down to appeal to kids.
I'm sick of all the pre-movie debate otherwise.
There will be plenty of time for that afterwards.
I just hope they keep the heart of the original franchise - there was a Gobots movie, but it wasn't as good as TF (natch). I don't want to end up with something that feels more like Gobots than TF. The mythos needs to be recognisable for this to work. As for Cullen and Welker - it'd be nice, but Hollywood has a stigma about needing big names, whether they can act with their voices or not.
Separate names with a comma.