Does the Bad out number the Good?

Discussion in 'Transformers Toy Discussion' started by Avengers, Aug 4, 2012.

  1. Avengers

    Avengers Banned

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    I just think Hasbro for the past Two years is getting a bit carried away with the side lines released under the TF brand. like Kreo,Cross-overs,Cyber verse,Bot shots. Rescue Bots.

    Takara doesn't even sell any of these Side lines listed above that Hasbro does.

    My Guess is when all these TF side lines mentioned above. sell badly in stores. this has a negative impact on the entire Transformers toy brand as a complete whole. retailers refuse to carry the bigger sizes. retailers carry stuff in less supply. customers have bad experience with some side lines TF toys,thus they stop buying the main line TF toys.

    I'd prefer the Hasbro team focus on releasing more superior product. for Generations,TF Prime & the movie verse.

    My guess is all these side lines. take away talent,resorces & budget money from the main TF lines. thus by default give us more mediocre main line product.

    I kinda consider classics & generations as a main line. not side line. as it's been out for over Five years. sometimes it gets released in decent numbers & size levels.
     
  2. seeker311

    seeker311 The Collector

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    I agree that hasbro is focusing too much on side stuff like botshots and what bothers me is that those side items dont last long and are not remembered like actual transformers are

    hell, just last month all the older Kreo sets were being clearanced out
     
  3. theestampede

    theestampede Wandering Artist

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    bot shots are the only thing that gets restocked here. everything else is wave 1, but we're on the jazz wave with bot shots
     
  4. Billzilla

    Billzilla Skeptic

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    The answer to this question is similar to the answer to nearly every question that is asked in this forum: Profit.

    Clearly Hasbro sees more money in dedicating resources to these lines. Given that the Hasbro is valued at between $4.5 and 5 billion and the second most valuable toy company on the US Stock Market (Mattel is worth considerably more) it would appear that this strategy is paying off.

    By comparison, Tomy LTD (AKA TakaraTomy) is valued at about $600 million (about 44.5Billion Yen) so.. yeah, you can see how one way might be more attractive to a business than the other way.

    It is not because they are stupid, it is not because they are incompetent, it is because the way they do things earns them piles and piles of cash. The only way to change this is to spend lots more money on things you like and buy none of things you don't like, then wait a few years, hoping that everyone else did the same. Sorry, but that's life.
     
  5. Nope

    Nope Predacon

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    Lucky!
     
  6. Ash from Carolina

    Ash from Carolina Junior Smeghead

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    Toy companies almost have to experiment because shifts in the market are so hard to guess. Some of the side trips work out into strong selling products for the company and other side projects just never take off.

    I'm really not sure that Hasbro would be producing more deluxe sized figures or retailers would dedicate more shelf space to things like Generations without things like Bot Shots on the shelves. It seems to be the Hasbro business model to only release a limited number of characters for the waves on all of the Hasbro products.
     
  7. harrismonkey

    harrismonkey Well-Known Member

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    I haven't wanted to say much about this- and it's a gut feeling- not something I can prove with anything more than anecdotal evidence. But I get the feeling Tformers may be on their way out again (selling poorly, soon to be missing from shelves, that sort of thing). Of course Hasbro igenuity or other factors could turn this around.

    This has happened a few times before. The most noteable obviously being in the 1990's when the brand did completely disapeer for a while (was it a few years, I forget?).

    Before the 1st movie it seemed like they were having real problems getting product to stores and shelf space was down. They may have been on their way out then. This is probably part of why the wild demand for the movie toys caught them with their pants down.

    Movie demand has certainly cooled again, and even a 4th movie probably won't help too much (it will help some, but look at DOTM).

    I'm just looking at small allocations filled with the same figures, new figures being impossible to find and I wonder if we're back to that point again where if they don't figure something out they'll be pushed off shelves soon.

    Obviously they may solve this issue (or it could just be in my head).

    I think this is part of why they've been trying so many different things lately, and why most of these things are cheap junky toys that barely transform. I guarentee the profit margins on the little cheapy bot shots are bigger than the deluxes and such. I think they either don't care enough or just don't know how to save the line and are trying to milk it for all it's worth while they can.

    That's my rather grim take on things right now.
     
  8. Billzilla

    Billzilla Skeptic

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    I think you're being too generous to Hasbro here. Things like Kre-o exist because they sat in some Marketing meeting trying to think of other successful products (Lego) that they could leverage their own successful brands against at a minimal cost. They ran the numbers and decided that, with their facilities, they could manufacture a lego knockoff on their own and get a better profit than whatever piece of the pie lego was willing to offer them to license the IP.

    It's a fair move. Lego has a huge market almost all to themselves. Plus, Lego's certainly been taking swipes at the "transforming robot" market for years. It's just business.

    I'm sure a similar situation led to the creation of Bot Shots and other splinter-lines, but I don't know enough about their competitors there to say for sure.


    I don't think you have anything to worry about. Hasbro's doing great. 2010 and 2011 were both better than 2012 (thanks to DOTM), but they're trading well above the pre-2008 market crash levels (a crisis they weathered relatively unscathed thanks to the extremely successful films being released right before and after it happened) and any previous years thanks in no small part to their having diversified their offerings into things like Kre-o, Bot Shots, TF Prime and War for Cybertron (and the success of other brands like MLP, but Optimus is their Cash Cow). In short: Hasbro's a good bet and there's no reason to believe TF4 won't have a similar positive result for them, earnings-wise. It would take several years in a row of them having worse years than this one for that to happen.

    So no. Transformers aren't going anywhere. MLP is an unexpected success that doesn't threaten TFs in the least (different markets), GI Joe is far too unpredictable. Whether you will like the toys they make is never guaranteed, but the brand is worth far too much to abandon. If Hasbro as a company were failing, the brand would survive as a Mattel product (they would buy it). Transformers going away is crazy talk.
     
  9. Boy Blunder

    Boy Blunder Hasbrown'd

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    I dunno, man, a lot of the 'side projects' sell like hotcakes. Bot Shots in particular are really popular around here, as are Rescue Bots (though, considering that they're supported by a fiction, I wouldn't count those as a 'side line'). Cyberverse are incredibly popular with both collectors and kids, especially in the shifting economic environment (check out oh-so-many threads for more on that).

    Kre-O and Crossovers aren't as hot, but the new Kre-O stuff seems to be really hitting a chord with collectors. As for Crossovers... didn't they abandon that line? I mean, the last few things I've seen were some old SW Crossover re-releases, and the new Legends-size ones that've been concurrently at Walmart and Ross.

    Honestly, I'm not seeing these things lingering around enough to wonder if they're hurting the line overall.
     
  10. Billzilla

    Billzilla Skeptic

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    I have no sales figures to say whether these other lines are indeed selling like hotcakes, but they seem to be doing well enough given Hasbro's overall earnings. I would suspect that Kre-o is relatively cheap for them to produce and, as Lego has the whole "building blocks" market pretty much to themselves, it's worth it to Hasbro to make a grab at even a tiny piece of the pie.
     
  11. harrismonkey

    harrismonkey Well-Known Member

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    You certainly could be right.

    That being said, Hasbro has lots of brands. Stock price doesn't neccesarily tell us which are doing better and worse.


    And they did manage to cause themselves some serious problems with the 3 per case BB in PRID. (and the BB's from DOTM which are still on shelves)
     
  12. harrismonkey

    harrismonkey Well-Known Member

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    Very true.
     
  13. Billzilla

    Billzilla Skeptic

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    Very true, but one metric we can absolutely go by is how successful the fiction is. DOTM was very successful and so was Avengers, so it's safe to guess that their toys- regardless of how we as collectors feel about them- probably did well and those brands are likely getting the majority of the attention from their respective owners. The more attention it gets, the more likely it is that they'll stumble upon a line that resonates with you. So even if you don't like the movie or movie toys (I'm ambivalent), the brand doing well is good for everyone. High tide raises all ships.

    As for Bumblebeemania, I don't understand the decision there, but the fact that it continued for as long as it did suggests it was at least initially successful as an idea. And it's clear that Hasbro has at least dialed this strange habit back for upcoming releases, not much Bee in future Prime Cases and none whatsoever in any of the Asian Exclusives, Prime First Edition rereleases or any of the announced Generations 2013 stuff.

    And of course he persists in his absence in the one line in which collectors would welcome a Bumblebee- Masterpiece (though I realize that issue is complicated).
     
  14. harrismonkey

    harrismonkey Well-Known Member

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    Alternity Bumblebee comes close. Especially since new MP Prime and Sideswipe seem to be working off a smaller scale than some previous MP toys. Also that BB is ridiculously huge in bot mode compared to the others in that line (in bot mode I display him with my Alt/BT toys). That being said, I'd probably be all over a good MP BB if they could ever make it happen.
     
  15. Reaper Cloud

    Reaper Cloud Dark Wrecker

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    I don't see it as a bad outweighing the good (as in too many different types of Transformers) rather than how many bad figures are in a particular type that you collect. I don't care for Rescue Bots, Kreo, or Bot Shots...but I won't say that they are bad. I just have zero interest in them.

    I did have interest in Bot Shots, but after the online game was ruined (in my opinion), I refuse to even spend one penny for them. Now, when I was playing the game (and having fun), then yeah...I would have started collecting them. I see it now as a good thing that they changed the game, since I have more money to spend elsewhere.

    Kreo figures look weird in robot form, and if they could improve this (and make them transform), then I would be interested in this line. Yeah, I understand the whole "Break them down and build them up" idea behind the line...but having a lego transformer that actually transformed would be sweet.

    Rescue Bots can't do anything to win me over. I'm too old for that show. That's probably why I like the Prime cartoon so much, since it has a lot of adult writing/situations, while still being a cartoon.

    Now, with the Prime toys (Cyberverse as well), I would say that just a few actual figures are bad while the rest are average to great. Cyberverse Arcee is horrible since she falls apart (at least mine does) whenever you transform her. Airachnid is a joke, and most people already know this. There are too many Bumblebee's out there, but at least his figure isn't garbage. His car/robot mode is nice, and seems accurate to me. It's not 100% accurate (can any figure classify as such?) but it's close. Plus we have Hot Shot from this mold, and he's very cool.

    It all comes down to just saying "No" on the bad figures and not buying them. If you are going to be a completest, then you really can't complain about having a bad figure just to have them all. As it stands right now, I would say that the good/bad ratio for Prime figures is 95/5. I can see it getting worse though, as the figures get even cheaper in terms of plastic, and going higher in price.
     
  16. LCDR Blindside

    LCDR Blindside Banned

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    A) No

    B) Takara releases Cyberverse
     
  17. Valkysas

    Valkysas Attack Buffalo

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    Bot Shots and Rescue Bots both sell, with Bot Shots especially selling like crazy around here. These things grow the brand, expose it to new crowds, and give people more ways to experience it.

    Kreo didn't sell that great, but the four sets I own, I love. I'm glad the line is still going forward.

    Doing things to grow the brand's audience is the smartest thing they can do. It's worth the risk. The alternative is having a fanbase that shrinks with age.

    Cyberverse/legends have been a mainstay of the brand since Cybertron, and has always done well, which is why we've seen it with every main line since it started. It gives kids a cheap way to get transformers, and fill out the entire cast without having to spend a ton of money. Sometimes these cheaper transformers are all a kid can get, so I'm really glad hasbro is doing so much with the range now. With playsets and every toy coming with weapons now, they're getting a great TF experience even if that's the only toys some kids can get.
     
  18. Shadowbreaker

    Shadowbreaker \/ /\

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    Yeah, Bot Shots are selling like hotcakes in my area. Rescue Bots are doing good too.

    While Kre-O was put on clearance at a lot of stores, it looks like the line is improving set-wise and idea-wise (ie, blindpacks).

    And yeah, Takara does Cyberverse. Heck, that sub-line seems to be doing better than the main line IMO. And it's extremly fun.

    And how do we know doing Bot Shots and Kre-O detracting from the main line? There could be an entirely different group of people working on different lines.
     
  19. wolfe

    wolfe Well-Known Member

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    Out of everything listed it seems Kreo sold the slowest around here. Some sets did sell out in places but others put them on clearance.

    A few of the stores have a lot of empty pegs. Bot shots are selling really well and seem to have new cases put up a lot.

    I view it as a good thing that the brand has branched out. Introduce the franchise to more people!
     
  20. archieboy

    archieboy Well-Known Member

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    Yep, in my opinion these "side lines" dilute the brand overall, which is not good for everyone involved.
     

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