Do you think Optimus would have killed Megatron?

Discussion in 'Transformers General Discussion' started by Seth Sunthay, Sep 1, 2017.

?

He would have pulled the trigger?

This poll will close on Dec 1, 2017 at 7:42 PM.
  1. Yes

    84.5%
  2. No

    15.5%
  1. Mako Crab

    Mako Crab Well-Known Member

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    In hindsight, it's almost like DOTM gave Optimus a redo. Both Sentinel & Megatron attempted to talk Optimus down, but he didn't hesitate to execute them. It's like Bay saw TFTM & said, "just shoot him! What's with this guy?!"
     
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  2. G1Prowl

    G1Prowl Prick, apparently

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    This is so patently false. Once more, Prime had no problem mowing down an ARMY of Cons in one barrage in War Dawn. Some argue that they were drones and not actual Decepticons. I totally disagree with that, but say they were. Do you think Prime would have known the difference? I doubt it, and he didn't hesitate to mow them down. It has nothing to do with thinking that Facetaker Prime was inspired by G1, is has to do with some people weighing all the evidence.
     
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  3. Altered Prime

    Altered Prime Well-Known Member

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    I don't see why he wouldn't have known the difference

    they pretty much always seem to be able to tell the difference
     
  4. G1Prowl

    G1Prowl Prick, apparently

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    Especially since he JUST BECAME A WARRIOR ROBOT AND WAS FREAKING DOCK WORKER WITH NO COMBAT EXPERIENCE ASIDE FROM GETTING SHOT. I can totally see how he'd know the difference. Also since they'd bother putting emotive faces on simple drones. And we're assuming that they ARE drones in the first place, which I don't think they were. Are we assuming every Seeker we see gunned down in the series was also a drone?
     
  5. Honorbound

    Honorbound The Reclusive Semi-Lurker

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    I can' t agree with this more - the naysayers can say what they like about Movie Optimus, but he isn't foolish enough to screw around when dealing with an implacable foe that's merely trying to weasel their way out of death.

    With regard to the original topic, I believe that G1 Optimus was going to pull the trigger. One, he said it himself: Megatron must be stopped, no matter the cost. While it foreshadowed Optimus's own death, it also meant that Optimus was willing to put an end to Megatron, once and for all. Two, he went back for the gun, and the way the scene was staged, it carried a note of finality, if Optimus were putting down Old Yeller, if Old Yeller had destroyed his home, shot him, and murdered his friends. Three, when Megatron pleaded for mercy, Optimus threw it back in his face: "You who are without mercy, now plead for it? I thought you were made of sterner stuff." That alone might not be enough to convince, but the final piece of evidence might: as Megatron was struggling with Hotrod over the gun, Prime ordered Hotrod to get out of the way, while trying to get a clean shot. Prime was always going to kill Megatron. If Hotrod hadn't interfered, then Megatron would be a dead bot - Megatron might have gotten the gun and gotten a shot off, possibly making it a mutual kill, but these are merely possibilities.
     
  6. Altered Prime

    Altered Prime Well-Known Member

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    All of which is totally irrelevant

    They are a society of living robots that for whatever reasons live and work side-by-side with nonliving drones

    I can't see any reason to believe he wouldn't of been able to tell the difference

    When you say going down to do you mean killed?

    If so I can't recall any can you please point to some
     
  7. Mako Crab

    Mako Crab Well-Known Member

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    To add to that- "the cost" in "no matter the cost" also includes his own personal honor. The line could just as easily be read as, "Megatron must be stopped, even at the cost of my own honor." Maybe finishing off Megatron while he was unarmed & down on his hands & knees isn't the perfect, preferred scenario that he would've wanted, but he was prepared to end it despite that.

    NuRID did a whole episode about this. It's called "Overloaded parts 1 & 2." (Even though the subject of that episode was Bumblebee's desire for the perfect finale with an old rival).

     
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2017
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  8. Altered Prime

    Altered Prime Well-Known Member

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    I know I'm quoting this particular post but the question is not just 4 the poster but for everybody
    I have a question for you guys...... why do you guys seem to think the idea of killing your enemy is not honorable

    I haven't really seen any of the people saying that Prime wooden kill because killing would be dishonorable but for some reason the people who seem to think he would kill think that the other side feels killing is dishonorable

    I speak for myself at least here and I have no problem with the idea of killing and still being honorable

    Yes there are ways to kill that would be dishonorable but there are just as many that would be an honorable way to kill the enemy
     
  9. AutobotAvalanche

    AutobotAvalanche Wanna touch things I don't feel

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    Honor means absolutely nothing when lives are on the line.
     
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  10. SentaiTFMechaLover

    SentaiTFMechaLover Well-Known Member

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    Primes main problem was that he hesitated to pull the trigger
     
  11. Altered Prime

    Altered Prime Well-Known Member

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    I would have to say that that's total BS

    But again this beckons my question why do people think that killing your enemy in war is dishonorable?
     
  12. AutobotAvalanche

    AutobotAvalanche Wanna touch things I don't feel

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    I'm on your side with this one, I don't think killing enemies in war is dishonorable.
     
  13. G1Prowl

    G1Prowl Prick, apparently

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    Gunned down? Yes. Look to the MTMTE three parter to see some in action. Two of them get gunned down at the dam. That's right off the top of my head. The Rainmakers, they got blown up in Divide and Conquer, I think? Sounds right, look to make sure after work. And before you even START with the whole "turn grey" crap, the Movie wasn't even thought of when that pilot aired. So yeah, grey doesn't apply.
     
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  14. Altered Prime

    Altered Prime Well-Known Member

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    don't worry I wasn't going to bring up fade color thing

    and as to whether those guys qualify as drones I think deserves and in tired of made of its own so I really won't go into it here

    Now I plan to try to re watch those episodes so I can refresh my memory as to what it is you're talking about but even if we accept the fact that those guys were gunned down as you call it I don't know if we can sit here and say that it qualifies as a death

    and before we get into a large argument about it it's just that how many times have we seen a main character go down in a way in which where it would seem logical that they died but then of course they were all fine later
     
  15. Altered Prime

    Altered Prime Well-Known Member

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    sorry misunderstood you
     
  16. Altered Prime

    Altered Prime Well-Known Member

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    ok I just rewatched this episode.

    yes to generic Seekers gets shot and fall to the ground at the dam

    There's absolutely no indication or reason to believe they were killed and not just damaged like so many other times
    . yeah you were right about the episode and I just rewatched this one as well
    .
    Blue Streak fires into the sky but there's no indication he hit any of the rainmakers, and even if we are to assume he did there's no reason to believe they were kill shots we didn't even see them fly off damaged we just know they disappeared after blue streaks weapons fire hit the clouds
     
  17. Mako Crab

    Mako Crab Well-Known Member

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    No one ever said that.

    Two things to consider:
    1.) Yes, Transformers is a war story. A very light war story, that leans most heavily on space opera & sci-fi-lite.

    2.) In additon to being a war story, it's also a cartoon for elementary kids, and as such, weaves in guidelines about fair play on the playground & how to handle schoolyard fights.

    This includes stuff like, don't hit unless they hit you (most cartoon heroes are therefore extremely reactionary. The Autobots build snowmen & watch soap operas rather than devise plans on how to win the war. They only fight back once the cons have thrown the first punch).

    So yes, the concept of basic black & white honor is a thing on the playground. It's basically knight's honor or samurai's honor. And for a paragon of virtue to sacrifice that honor in order to save everyone would be a big deal to the children watching the movie.

    Optimus was about to kill Megatron while he was:
    1. Disarmed
    2. On his hands and knees
    3. Begging for mercy

    For Optimus to do that in 1986 would've been a huge deal.

    I can't believe I have to explain how that's different than killing an enemy in the midst of heated combat.

    That said, I wouldn't fault him for taking the shot. As adults, we know the world is complex & messy & doesn't always allow someone to act as virtuous as they'd like- especially during a war. I personally wouldn't feel he dishonored himself.
    But then, Op is the guy that killed himself after accidentally running over some NPCs in a video game.
     
  18. Altered Prime

    Altered Prime Well-Known Member

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    I feel some people have but hell maybe I misunderstood them let's move on.
    yes yes yes yes yes

    Somehow you just pretty much sum Up my basic argument here far better that I've been able to word it
    you don't have to but wasn't really my issue.
    I wouldn't either I just know it's something the Optimus Prime we got from sunbow cartoon would have never done

    Actually from what I remember his reasoning for allowing himself to be destroyed afterwards was because he deliberatly, not accidentally, deliberately let Those computer characters die to win the game because he knew there was no real harm

    But afterwards he realized it was cheating because he would have never done so in the real world
     
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  19. flamepanther

    flamepanther Interested, but not really

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    I still think the question is sort of moot. Prime had already beaten Megatron almost to death by the time he started begging. One good whack from a dying Optimus Prime and a tumble over a ledge was all it took for Megatron's most loyal troops to leave him for dead and Unicron to describe his destination as "oblivion". In the script, Megatron even calls for Soundwave to "enshrine me". He wasn't dead, but he was dying.

    Optimus Prime DID kill Megatron.

    It's fairly important to the subtext of the movie, even. Both leaders are left dying. Optimus Prime accepts his fate, using his last moments to comfort his friends and pass the torch. Megatron goes into denial ("I still function!") and sells his soul, clinging to life at any cost.
     
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2017
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  20. Mako Crab

    Mako Crab Well-Known Member

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    Yeah? If so, that's something I didn't know.

    It's a problematic story either way, not just because he kills himself over a video game, but because he left his troops to fend for themselves with a war that was still on. I think it's more dishonorable to do that, than to allow his honor to be tarnished (again- over a video game) & continue fighting anyway.

    Getting off on a tangent here!
     

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