If a fakie is popular-ish, has a recognizable manufacturer and does at least moderately well, does it deserve to continue to be treated as a knock off when it is actually its own brand? Plus wasn't Voltron and Gobots around before Transformers? In a way wouldn't that make TFs a knock-off? Or is it only because its become insanely succesful that it doesn't qualify? If so, why not consider other distinct brands there own thing, instead of a knock off of this, that and the other? The same could be said of any product really. I remember hydroxy cookies being considered knock offs of oreos, but it turned out they were making them beforehand.

What do you guys think?  

 

A Knock off is a copy or imitation of something usually successful and it is done to leech of the brand names success. So figures that are copied or imitated, such as Wei Jiang Detective (AOE Hound OS/Improved) or JJ01 Supreme (Classics Optimus OS/Improved) would be considered knock offs. I understand what you mean when you say if these figures should be considered knock offs or not, but based on the terms definition, I would say they are. Still, some of these knock offs blow the originals out of the water.

 

Wei Jang's DECTECTIVE and Commander are both technically knock offs, but they curbstomp the official figures. WJ basically acts like any other 3P now, making unnofficial products. It's not a genuine Transformer but it's not a blatant mold-stole knock-off.

Also, the giant robot/mech genre has been around for decades now, and Transforming robots weren't exactly knew when TF came out in 84. They just gained the popularity. All molds from 84-85 and even some up to 87 were recycled from other lines, so technically Transformers just legally knocked them off.

You can't exactly own an entire genre of fiction. Gobots are about the closest thing to Transformers that I know, but other lines like Voltron or Macross are their own thing. Sure they both have transforming robot/mechs but their another take in the genre, hardly a "fakie" as you put it as it's a new take on it. Saying Voltron is ripping off Transformers because their both transforming things is like saying one Pop artist is ripping off another by making a song in the same genre, and ludicrous.

 

That's what I'm thinking too @spartan 3764 I can understand it being a knock off, if its made with extremely shoddy materials, has no manufacturer stamp, no variety etc. Or if its so blatantly copyrighted they won't even bother to change the look/package art/distinct brand font, but I can also think of plenty of nice branded fakies of various toylines that are just as nice, if sometimes nicer then, whatever it was they are accused of copycatting. And in a way, it seeme kinda jerky to relegate brands to generic fakie fodder if they are definitely its own thing.

It would also make identifying brands easier.  

Recently I saw a huge optimus prime wanna be fakie, that also came with a smaller version that had flipped colors plus a wind up potatomus prime. It was great!

 

Unofficial discussion belongs here in our 3rd Party Discussion Forum.

 

Oops! Sorry Supersquad7  

 

It's all just lines in the sand.

Is a figure a KO if the manufacturer changes one thing? Is a figure a KO if the engineering was copied but the mold is different? How about KO's of 3P?

We are never going to get everyone to agree or come to any kind of consensus - so while it might be mildly interesting to discuss, we are probably going to get the same disagreement as to what everyone feels should be considered a KO. I like good quality, cool looking, transforming robots. I care much less about who makes them or if they were originally made by someone else, etc. I also like them to be as cheap as possible - but that's because I just want to spread my money around to buy more robots!

 

Are you talking about "fakies" as on KO's, or rip off lines?

 

I consider KO's things like the Takasa Tony Masterpiece figures, OS Throttlebots, Machine Boy Warbotron and Hasbro Legends..

I don't consider them KO's if they've improved designs or changed more than a couple things.. Like Weijiang Evasion Optimus, Weijiang AOE Hound, and Voyager MP Optimus,

 

These are the terms I use:

If it is a toy that just changes form, that is just another original toy. Example: Convertors Robat.

Something similar to a Transformers character, but does not copy molds or trademarks is an "homage". Example FansProject Warbot Defender.

I call something a "knockoff" if it copies the molding of someone else's toy. Example: the cheapo Sixwing combiner in new colors, with a new name and new labels at the Dollar General.

Anything that uses names or symbols registered as trademarks of someone (like using the name Transformers, Optimus Prime, or an Autobot symbol) are "IP infringing". Example: the first release from Justitoys that had Autobot symbols and called the toy a Dinobot.

If a toy actually tried to present itself as being made by a company other than the who who made it (like those toys that look like G1 toys complete in Hasbro packages) that is "counterfeit". Example: Mint in package Hasbro Soundwave made in 2016 in China!

 

I dunno, I've never heard the term "fakie" before so I don't know what that is.

Here in the 3rd Party forum, what we are often discussing are unlicensed toys.
They are unique works of art and design, but they represent characters they have no license to.
Unlicensed transforming robot toys.

Then there are items that are copies of existing toys made without authorization. These are bootlegs or knock-offs, and China has been making bootleg copies of just about everything for decades. It's like porn - if it exists, there is a Chinese knockoff of it.

There are some gray areas, like the KOs of MP-10, which are copies, but contain new work and unique tooling to improve the mold.

I don't know where the term 3rd Party comes from.

 

Ha! This thread is mostly just going to be arguing semantics (which I kind of enjoy!).

I have no idea how anyone defines "Fakie", but "Knockoff" is much more often used and means different things to different people. Technically it just means "copy or imitation." For our purposes, some might use it to describe only 1:1 copies of existing toys... and on the other end of the spectrum, others might use "knockoff" for any product that appropriates a registered likeness, even when doing so to produce an entirely new product.

Personally, I'd never call Fans Toys a knockoff company, but I'd definitely call Takasa Tony a knock off company.

Riding the line is Weijiang with their improved versions of existing toys. I don't personally see them as KO's, but I understand the argument against that.

The last thing you discuss (comparing similar brands or ideas) is the nature derivative work. Obviously, TFs aren't knockoffs of Voltron. They're far too different to anyone that knows better than to be considered as copies of each other, but they obviously took some of the same inspiration from previous robot designs when creating their own products.

 

Fun fact, probably the earliest third-party Transformer company was Blue Box Toys Androform line from 1985. They made a shuttle carrying case which advertised it was made to work with GoBots and Transformers, among others. It actually transformed into a robot, so it was an original character!

 

Its all IP theft from Hasbro in one form or another, so I don't see the point in saying one is bad and the other is good.

 

Are fakie boobies considered knock-offs?

 

No they are considered 'bolt ons'.

 

 

Ida went with knock-ers, myself...but was throwing a softball out for someone to take a swing at.

 

Meh, there is humour in there no matter how you look at it, bolt on, knock-ers, either way it makes me laugh.

 

Technically, (though I'm not entirely sure) couldn't one consider the 1984-85 figures knockoffs of diaclone, and other lines?

 

No. Those were licensed use of the molds and or actually produced for Hasbro by Takara. KO's are illegal copies of something.