Do the films have to be dark and gritty?

Discussion in 'Transformers Movie Discussion' started by Ash from Carolina, Apr 29, 2011.

  1. Ash from Carolina

    Ash from Carolina Junior Smeghead

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    Recently watched one of Movie Bob's segments on The Escapist about how nerd culture has gone to the dark and gritty starting with comic books as an excuse for old fans to enjoy something that has been traditionally been seen as more for kids. Instead of being confined to just comic books the dark and gritty has been a theme for films as well.

    If you want to check out the segment Movie Bob, Done with Dark.

    So since Transformers was an example it kind of got me wondering, do the Transformers films have to be dark and gritty to appeal to older viewers? Not one of those should the films be G1 because we've done that plenty of times, but should the films appeal to our inner child more than our inner teen?
     
  2. shroobmaster

    shroobmaster Well-Known Member

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    Nope they shouldn't. Grim dark got no place in a franchise about fighting colorful robots IMO.

    It can get dark sometimes, sure, but BLOODLUSTY NERD level of Grimdark can go to hell.
     
  3. Karhukjnsi

    Karhukjnsi Universal Wrestler

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    Give me blood, violence, colorful language and an unhappy ending more than "Curses, foiled again, UNTIL NEXT TIME, HERO!"

    The horrible pain of reality is a big reason I love Saving Private Ryan. Since the Transformers is supposed to be about a war, then treat it like a war.
     
  4. DeathsHead

    DeathsHead Well-Known Member

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    Transformers is not about war in a visceral sense or a history lesson. It's based around a collection of children's toys, a fairly simple cartoon and a comic series - all of which have managed to entertain both the young and old for years and generally without needing to deal in excessive violence, blood or colourful language.

    Transformers has no requirement to be dark or gritty.
     
  5. SPLIT LIP

    SPLIT LIP Dry built

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    No. It can be realistic an visceral without being grimdark "I'm Batman and my parents are DEAD" stuff.
     
  6. Mechafire

    Mechafire Veteran TFW2005 Supporter

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    No. Not at all. A film can be "dark and gritty" and still be a bad movie.
     
  7. Wars

    Wars Regular At Swerve's™

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    While both of those statements are true, I think I'd have to side with Karhukjnsi on this one. Seeing as how Ash from Carolina is obviously talking about the live action films, the dark, destructive feel of the Cybertronian war does add a lot to the realism.

    Basically what I'm trying to say is, while the live action films don't really need a dark, overly violent theme, it wouldn't ruin the movie completely if they put that in, as they seem to be doing with Dark of the Moon, gathering from trailers that we've seen so far.
     
  8. tusko

    tusko Well-Known Member

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    Good story telling, is good compelling story telling.

    Pandering to a demographic for thematic interest is a recipe for disaster.

    Toy Story movies are awesome.
    Saving Private Ryan is awesome.

    Just tell a good story, but don't pitch the films as "Ya know wha'd be cool? Decapitator Prime!"

    Bay has a style - explosions, fast cuts, lots of action and "cool" visuals. But its secondary to good story telling. I welcome all styles to give good stories.
     
  9. Karhukjnsi

    Karhukjnsi Universal Wrestler

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    It may not be required, but it sure seems to help, especially in the quality of the fiction. Transformers: Prime, doesn't have mortars going off, or limbs being blasted, but they have it down to a good idea of what it should be like. Beast Wars was also able harness the gravity of the war that the toyline created, and it was a masterpiece in many areas of fiction - especially in story and character building.
     
  10. Dex17113

    Dex17113 Well-Known Member

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    I have to add something here....

    For me, as has been previously mentioned here, it's all about story.

    That's why ROTF sucked ass in my mind. Okay...it looked beautiful. Seeing Devastator unite was geekgasm worthy for sure.

    ....HOWEVER.

    The script was so bad and the story had so many holes in it that, other than being mindless explosions and visually stunning effects...the movie really blew.

    I think it really boils down to two things:

    1. Is there a good story told

    2. Does the level of darkness/violence/nudity/swearing exist to move the story and add to the psychology of what is happening?....or is it gratuitous?

    I don't mind the films being dark, so long as the story makes sense. The Empire Strikes Back was dark and didn't have a happy ending, and is the best film of the trilogy. The problem is that sort of started this whole thing of "well if most folks consider that the best of the three...and it was dark...OH...I KNOW...we will just make our nerd films dark and they will eat it up." That's horseshit.

    Give me a GOOD STORY and I'm happy - no matter the level of darkness.

    ....of course, that's just my two cents.
     
  11. Murasame

    Murasame CHIMICHANGAS

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    this...

    ...and this. I love dark and gritty. But it's boring if EVERYTHING is dark and gritty. I mean I love old Walt Disney movies, too. I don't need them to be updated for a mature audience.

    It's not like I'm grownup? Come on, I'm 30 but today we are longer teens ;) 

    Something like Transformers is in danger too become a cheap movie, if it's not done in gritty style, if it is not done right. look at the Avatar movie that has nothing to do with James Cameron. But dark and gritty is no guarantee that the result will be cool.

    I would prefer something that is for the whole family. Not too childish, but cool enough for everyone to watch. Real action, but still colorful, cool looking robots and YES I want unrealistic made up stuff as long as my imagination does not question it.

    If they would do the robots 1:1 like in G1, it might look stupid. But it's not like there aren't other ways.


    Maybe we'll find out with the next movie installments that are hopefully to be made.


    The most important thing that people should never forget. It's always about THE STORY you're going to tell. If that is shit, the whole movie is shit. No matter how cool it is presented. At the end of the day you remember only cool stories. But when I think of the first two Transformer movies by Michael Bay? Hmm there is not much left...
     
  12. johnboy3434

    johnboy3434 Well-Known Member

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    I've never understood this mindset. At all. If reality is so painful, why would anyone EVER want to replicate it? With your imagination, the sky's the limit, so create something better. Keep your fiction as far from that pain as possible. You gain nothing by suffering in your free time. You gain a lot by feeling good in your free time. Any psychologist would tell you that. Anyone with common sense would tell you that. The Cybertronian War should be treated as a spectator sport for the viewers, not a real war. It shouldn't be "Oh my God, those people are dying!", it should be "Holy shit! Did you see that guy get blown up? That was fucking awesome!".

    Of course, this is all ignoring the fact that real life can have happy endings, too.
     
  13. KnightSaberAmi

    KnightSaberAmi Nyan Nyan

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    I don't usually post here but I'm just going to put it out there: RoboCop, RoboCop 2, and that travesty RoboCop 3. I don't think that the material could or would have been taken as seriously or done as well if it had been done a smidge lighter in tone.
     
  14. seeker311

    seeker311 The Collector

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    i dont see them as being dark and gritty; that definition fits Underworld and Silent Hill better
     
  15. Karhukjnsi

    Karhukjnsi Universal Wrestler

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    You gain appreciation for the good things you do have.
     
  16. Nachtsider

    Nachtsider Banned

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    They don't need to be dark or all too dark, just well-written. Case in point: TFA.
     
  17. johnboy3434

    johnboy3434 Well-Known Member

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    The bad things you're forced to encounter in life do that job already. Willfully subjecting yourself to bad things for no reason other than to experience them is simply unhealthy and could be a sign of low self-esteem. I know. I've had it.
     
  18. Cyber Star

    Cyber Star Why so Geewun, Loser?

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    This please :D 
     
  19. Ephland

    Ephland Let's Go Rangers

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    The Transformers movies haven't been either.
     
  20. jru42287

    jru42287 With great power...

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    It depends on the movie. Some of the new stuff coming out, like the Spider-Man Reboot, which are claiming to be more gritty don't really need to be. Spider-Man 1 and 2 were gritty and serious enough on their own (Let's just pretend SM3 doesn't exist, and we'll all be better people for it...), but things like Batman Begins and The Dark Knight deserve to be gritty, because that's how the comics were intended to be. The comics were darker still than Begins and TDK. These are just as close as they've gotten with the movies.
     

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