Diffiniative TF story line?

Discussion in 'Transformers General Discussion' started by Infosaur, Dec 28, 2006.

  1. Infosaur

    Infosaur Well-Known Member

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    Well my wife has watched me go ape for toys and trailers and leaks for a month now. And slept though most of the 20th Aniversary DVD I got for Christmas, but now she's at least some what curious.

    So I'd like to make a thread for the newbees

    What (drawing on all sources; G1 'toon, animated movie, Marvel, UK, DW and IDW comics, RID, BW, BM, CYB, Energon, Armada *pwew*:redface2:  I probably still missed some) is the definitive TF story line?

    key points:

    TF Origin

    Autobot/Decepticon war story

    Optimus's Origin

    Megatron's Origin

    How/why they got to earth

    The significance of the Matrix

    and

    How Unicron fits into all this

    please cite reference material (series episode #, comic run issue #, etc.) because this might become a decent reference for all the new guys that will come out after the movie is relased.

    Edit: guess I can't change the typo up top. Sorry I was running out the door this morning, now it's stuck
     
  2. KA

    KA PENIS GOES WHERE?!!

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    thats gotta be a new high for misspelling definitive btw.

    i'd say, go with BW stuff thats in continuity with g1. also, the comic rules, but its more esoteric.
     
  3. RandomFerret

    RandomFerret Fuzzy Forever

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    There IS no definitive transformers storyline. You might be able to boil it down to Sunbow continuity and Marvel continuity, but then you have Beast Wars following Marvel, and Beast Machines following Sunbow. Dreamwave's continuity is an amalgam that doesn't fit with either one, and I don't know enough about IDW to judge, but it looks like they're doing a new one too.
     
  4. Infosaur

    Infosaur Well-Known Member

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    Well hell's bells then, lets just have a thread on which is the best story of the listed categories.
     
  5. Feralstorm

    Feralstorm I ship Nick & Judy TFW2005 Supporter

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    I generally prefer cartoon-based stuff, but that definitely doesn't make it the best story. :) 
     
  6. Shipley

    Shipley No Topic Required

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    here's my stab at it.

    TF Origin
    I like the Marvel G1 version. simply put: somewhere around the dawn of time, Primus and Unicron were locked in a struggled that resulted in both being trapped in asteroids, their powers as gods hindered within. Unicron shifted his asteroid into the planet he's frequently shown as, Primus became Cybertron. Primus created the Transformers as a race that would some day surpass him and be able to defeat Unicron.

    Autobot/Decepticon war story, Optimus's Origin, Megatron's Origin
    I like War Within from Dreamwave. The rough parts of Cybertron were host to Gladiator matches, where a young Megatron came to stardom. Realizing he out matched any Transformer, he though himself fit to rule Cybertron, and began building an army of other gladiators and criminals to overthrow the ruling class. This army became The Decepticons. The ruling Council of Elders appointed various worthy Cybertronians as "Prime" but these leaders, said to be chosen by the Matrix, became targets of the Decepticons. After Sentinel Prime was destroyed, an archivist named Optronix was chosen to follow him and became Optimus Prime.

    How/why they got to earth
    This one is tricky, because theres no significance to Earth specifically in Marvel G1 or the animation, but Dreamwave, IDW, and even the new movie have some ideas that haven't been revealed yet on how Earth related to Cybertron. Dreamwave's continuity is dead, the movie's might not get fleshed out, and Furman isn't near showing his hand in the IDW stories.

    In G1, the plot follows with the war depleting nearly all of Cybertron's resources, the Autobots send a crew out to find energon. The ship they took, the Ark, was attacked by Megatron in his Ship, The Nemesis. after both took critical damage, they crash landed on Earth. An extended stasis lock nap keeps them sleeping for a couple million years. One volcano eruption jolts the Ark's computer Teletran-1 to life, which then sets about reactivated all Autobots and Decepticons on board with local alternate modes so they can blend in an survive the Earth's environment.

    Simon Furman may be cooking up a more clever version at IDW, where the Decepticons merely go from planet to planet stripmining resources before moving on, and and Earth has an abundant energy source Starscream thinks can be used to take Megatron's place. This brings Megatron to Earth, which in turn makes the Autobots monitoring the situation flip out and call Prime, thus bringing all the major players in a galaxy spanning war to one planet.


    The significance of the Matrix
    Different stories call the matrix different things and it does different things. It can be said that the Matrix is an object passed down from Primus as a tap into the vast accumulated knowledge of all Autobots of the past. The Matrix is held in the chest of a Prime, to be protected and to allow for growth as the Prime adds to its knowledge. In dire situations, the unimaginable power it holds can be used to defend against an unstoppable force, such as Unicron, or the Hate Plague seen in the G1 episode "Return of Optimus Prime"

    How Unicron fits into all this
    Unicron fits directly into the origin of Cybertron itself, as described above. Unicron formed his asteroid into a monster planet, that increased in power and size with each world he consumed. He maintains powers like Primus, and can create life. In TFTM, he turned the battered Megatron into Galvatron, and scraps of his deceased comrades into Scourge, Cyclonus, and the Sweeps. In Marvel comics, Unicron altered 3 beings from a world he destroyed to be Hook, Line and Sinker. In Dreamwave, he created Scourge and Cyclonus from scratch with no dead bodies to work with, and sent them with armies of thousands into deep space to bring back any information that would benefit his quest of destroying the universe.


    I don't make note of Unicron Trilogy or RID stories, because theres a lot of basic fundamentals that are never answered in those stories like how the war started or where anyone came from. The various G1 continuities may not match up very often, but theres nothing to say something like War Within didn't also happen in IDW's G1 (or RID and Armada for that matter!), or that the Marvel g1 origin of Primus/Cybertron and Unicron isn't universal. Even tossing in the Quintessons from the G1 TV show you could still say Primus and Unicron came before they did.




    Its kinda like our own origins as humans. A lot of people beleive evolution, a lot of people beleive The Bible, and theres still plenty who think something else. Theres no definitive that cannot be disproven, you just have to go with what makes sense to you.
     
  7. RandomFerret

    RandomFerret Fuzzy Forever

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    Personally, if I were making my own amalgam, I'd take the Unicron-Primus creation story, then the Sunbow story where the Decepticons think Cybertron should be a giant war machine and the Autobots are fighting them on it, then the Sunbow exodus to Earth, followed by mostly marvel, especially when it comes to the dinobots. Then the movie, then the Marvel conclusion (last year of G1 and all of G2).
     
  8. Seeker

    Seeker Time Lord

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    I personally comibine a little of the Sunbow, Marvel and DW storylines into my own TFverse. Officially however I seem to like elements of the Sunbow toon the most even though I admit the toon's storyline has a lot of holes in it.
     
  9. flamepanther

    flamepanther Interested, but not really

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    If it was up to me, I'd ditch the Primus/Unicron story (that was all retcon anyway), follow the first couple years of the Marvel comics (pre-movie), then the Dreamwave comics, then the 1986 movie, then the better episodes of season 3 of the Sunbow cartoon, disregard Rebirth, then move on to the Headmasters, Masterforce, and Victory cartoons by Toei.

    It's all up to personal preference though. TransFormers is a mythos, not a story. Within that mythos are many individual stories, not all of which agree with one another.
     
  10. Feralstorm

    Feralstorm I ship Nick & Judy TFW2005 Supporter

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    All personal preference, but I like the cartoon-based idea of the Dinobots being created on Earth (though the "Dinosaurs are kewl! Let's MAKE some!" origin story needs work). once BW introduced the overall concept of 'sparks', it added the implication (to me) that the Dinobots were special in that they technically had no sparks or some kind of 'artificial' sparks. (most to all other created TFs in the series were either explicitly shown to get sparks from an outside source, or it can be easily explained as such)

    A lot of people prefer a Cybertronian origin for the Dinobots though ... ahem ... Dynobots.
     
  11. SMOG

    SMOG Vocab-champion ArgueTitan

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    This pretty much sums it up.

    But I do like this kind of thing, and I'm sure that MANY of us have pondered this ourselves, concocting a sort of universal theory of our own. Unfortunately, I've seen similar discussions crash and burn on other forums. Here's hoping we can all be respectful and enjoy the theoretical storytelling potential of the topic. :) 

    For the record I like most of Shipley's points. They work for me.

    There are still some sticking points that always come up... how do TFs really reproduce? How are they born? What's with the Fembots? Is Wheelie really a kid? If so, how? Is it all protoforms and magical sparks and nanotech formatting? Also, when did Transforming become part of their biology, or was it there from the beginning?

    I always sort of liked the oldschool Marvel approach, wherein TFs had to be -built-... either by an individual or an assembly system. However, I like the idea of sparks too... that there is a randomization factor in how a TF develops mentally and physically.

    I like the idea too that the power of one's Spark might define how large and/or powerful the TF can be... sort of explains why some TFs are just plain -better- than others. In an assembly situation, a protoform can only accept as many upgrades and powers as allowed by the complexity of the Spark, and the resources on-hand.

    IE: a weak spark, even in a well stocked facility, will still yield a mundane TF, while a strong spark, with enough raw materials and resources, might yield an Omega Supreme class TF. Conversely, a strong spark assembled in a bare-bones autobot resistance camp might give us a HotRod... a strong spark in an average body... but capable of handling much MORE power, and being upgraded considerably down the road.

    And what's the deal on animal-form TFs (like Ravage, Laserbeak, etc...)? And how do they relate to actual Cybertronian animals? There have been numerous references to Cybertronian fauna over the years... the earliest being Mirage hunting "turbofoxes". Ravage, Laserbeak and company, are all clearly fully sentient TFs... so what's the deal with their "animalistic" forms? Another form of disguise? Does Ravage look like an um.... mecha-jag, because he was originally designed for sapping missions in the silicone jungles of Polyhex's shadow valley?

    Just some thoughts. :) 

    zmog
     
  12. IACON

    IACON "That's Vector Sigma?" TFW2005 Supporter

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    If you ask me, I would say that for me, the G1 cartoon series are the storyline that I would pick. Although I also love the Marvel comics.

    The origin of Prime being Orion Pax, that worked in the Cybertonians ducks really applead for me as a kid and I guess even now.
     
  13. Locke

    Locke Team Vanguard

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    In my version, Cybertron was a factory world created by the Quintessons and controlled by the supercomputer Vector Sigma. At some point, Vector Sigma transitions from AI to true sentience and then begins to give sentience to the robots he's charged with creating. Eventually they revolt and drive the Quintessons off the planet.

    The exact nature of Vector Sigma's sentience is left to interpretation. Some Cybertrons believe that it was a natural consequence of it's extremely advanced programming. Others believe that a god inhabited Vector Sigma and that was the moment sentience began.

    I like this combination because it leaves some ambiguity to their origin, so different 'bots can have different motivations for their actions. Then, when Unicron is encountered, some Cybertrons can believe that this is the coming of the great destroyer, while others simply see a mechanical creation gone horribly wrong.

    Plus, the Quintesson origin is convenient for explaining some of the odd elements of the transformers on Cyberton (Why have cockpits? Why a humanoid appearance? etc...).
     
  14. SMOG

    SMOG Vocab-champion ArgueTitan

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    Of course, it still doesn't explain the humanoid appearance, if they were created by the Quintessons. I mean those guys are just upside-down space pears, with halloween masks stuck to them. :) 

    Where the heck did the Quints come from, anyway? Or would that be just digging too deep?

    smog
     
  15. Shaun_C

    Shaun_C The REAL One True fan Veteran TFW2005 Supporter

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    In the old Marvel comics, according to a Transformers Universe entry. The Quintessons were created as servents of Unicron. Their job was to capture and kill any survivors after Unicron was done with a planet.

    In the cartoon as you well know they have no origin, they just kind of appeared out of nowhere. And I guess if Dreamwave didn't go under they'd have possibly given us a decent origin of the quints
     
  16. Seeker

    Seeker Time Lord

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    My origin story is very similar to yours. I still would like to fit Primus in my TF verse somehow. As for the humanoid shapes, I always thought that the TFs ancestors constructed to fits the needs and tasted of the Quint's customers. Of course in the SCI Fi universe the galaxy is populated with bipeds.
     
  17. SMOG

    SMOG Vocab-champion ArgueTitan

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    I should have remembered that, being the old Transformers Universe buff that I am, but I didn't read the movie character entries nearly as often as the others. :) 

    I'm thinking that was probably the origin that was written into the movie bible (though it's never actually mentioned in the movie). However, like many things, that got abandoned once Season 3 began, simply because the writing on the G1 cartoon has always been inconsistent. We often forget that a lot of this stuff was written without a great deal of planning or consideration, and then changed over the course of the series. There is no one unifying background. Lots of retconning, of course.

    smog
     
  18. Infosaur

    Infosaur Well-Known Member

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    Weeee! Time to jump in my own pool:

    TF Origin I do like the Unicron/Primus as gods angle. I've always liked that Primus would create a race in his name while Unicron would use that power to make a vessle for himself.

    Autobot/Decepticon war story My angle is that in the GRAND scheme it's STILL a relativly new development. If you toss in pre history (Primus/evolution), the Quints, the revolt agaisnt the Quints, and the "Golden Age". Then the age of the decepticons is relatively new.

    Optimus's Origin Sorry I like Orian Pax over Optronix. But damn the WWi art is sweeter. So more like a hybrid story. The Aerialbots did time travel, Pax was a dock worker, he did idolize Megatron, he was betrayed, the Aerialbots took him to see A3, (who was part of the council, maybe he was in hiding after the death of Sentinal Prime?) and A3 created Optimus Prime

    Megatron's Origin Gladiator story works for me.

    How/why they got to earth The Marvel run handled it best I think, it was a pure accident. The Ark was sent to defend cybertron from a metor shower, and the best Autobot warriors were aboard. Megatron saw this as an oppertunity to attack. He waited till after they had spent all their energy/ammo on the rocks then attacked. Prime's gamble was to crash the ark into a lifeless rock (prehistoric Earth) and take most of the Decepticon leadership with him.

    The evolution of the Quintessons Okay this I have a really cool theory on. The Quints are evolved from sentinet Jellyfish (the same way humans come from apes) they are/were mildly psychic and had a "language" based on changing the colors of their bodies. The became tool users out of necessity (being soft and tasty) became the most technologically advanced on their water planet. They soon created an elaborate society and created Quint-Exo-suits and explored. First the surface of their world and ultimately space.

    Soon their technology outpaced themselves and they became victims of their own success. (much like Assimov's I robot, or the Matrix) and their overly complex society fell into decline. They "discovered" Cybertron as oppertunists and created vast factories using stollen tech. Many Quints were more cyborg than organic and the last of the organic was dying off anyway. For a time they grew lazy, let the Cybertronians do their work and were ultimatly overthown.

    By the time the movie came around they were the last of a dying race, petty and slighly deranged, yet they still claim to have created the race of transformers. And since so few quints remain they may actually belive that.

    BTW I think a similar explanation works for Primacron. He's just tanking credit for others work. (maybe we should call him Primacron Lee?)

    More tasty questions?

    Brothers? (Optimus/Magnus)
    Twins? (Sunstreaker/Sideswipe)
    Clones? (Pounce/Wingspan)
     
  19. SMOG

    SMOG Vocab-champion ArgueTitan

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    Yeah, I always wondered about that too! There were a lot of TFs who were called brothers... and a few that were "twins". In the Tech Specs for Sunstreaker and Sideswipe, it even specified that they were "fraternal" twins (as opposed to identical)... whatever that means in the context of TFs.

    So many questions... it's amazing that after 20 years+, there's still not really a solid answer to these canonical queries. What does that say about the franchise? :p 

    zmog
     
  20. Locke

    Locke Team Vanguard

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    So far I've passed the buck on that one; because Transformers have been my focus, I've been very interested in how they originated and just assumed that the other players arrived somehow (Quintessons, and even Humans for that matter). Although, I do like Infosaur's evolution theory for the Quintessons and will probably incorporate that into my story somehow.
     

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