Did the movie bots fail?

Discussion in 'Transformers Movie Discussion' started by Ra88, Sep 26, 2007.

  1. Ra88

    Ra88 Dutchman!

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    And I don't mean with their designs (well, it does, but I'll explain that in a little bit), but with one certain thing, which was the pride and joy of the production crew for a while.

    It's been said numerous times that after 7-4-7, you'll believe that any car could be a robot hiding amongst us. After seeing the movie I thought about it, and in the past week, I finally asked friends of mine what they thought of the transformations in the movie.

    They all said that the transformations, while cool, were for most characters totally unbelievable (they said that only 'that copter guy', Bonecrusher and Optimus Prime seemed believable). Too much crap that appears and disappears at will, and they especially mentioned Bumblebee (very bloody obvious) and Ratchet (of whom I recently noticed that basically, his entire back section unfolded like paper from the cab).

    And I can't help but agree with them. I like most of the moviebots partly due to their detail (I like detailed stuff, it's probably why I'm so forgiving with the movie bots), but that amount of detail became their downfall. In their quest to make the bots as cool as possible, they thwarted their main objective; believable transformations. I also no longer have any doubts that (for example) all chairs and interiors DO disappear and be replaced with other crap. Which is kinda hard for me to admit, since I've defended the "No disappearing/appearing stuff" side for a LONG time.

    I still like the movie bots, but I hope the production crew will take the time to take a deep, long, hard look at this and both clean up the already established designs (remove random crap and add in chairs, dashboard, steering wheel, etc.) and make the transformations a tad bit simpler. After all, it would be nice to know exactly HOW Bumblebee transformed without having to look at a video 10 times to figure out where all yellow panels end up.

    Well, thoughts? Agree? Disagree?
     
  2. Ravenxl7

    Ravenxl7 W.A.F.F.L.E.O.

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    I personally think that all their transformations were beleivable. Then again, I do have a good sized imagination :thumb .
     
  3. Lord Of Tetris

    Lord Of Tetris Well-Known Member

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    I think this is a great thread topic.

    Yeah, it's pretty obvious that the movie robots cheat every bit as much as Beast Wars season 1 and the G1 show, only this cheating is done reeeeeeally gorgeously, and it cuts away for the serious cheating. I remember reading in a different thread where someone posted an article written by one of the CGI team. The guy basically say that the CGI team got their hands on the robot mode, and the vehicle mode, but it was up to them to figure it out. In other words, there isn't a slow-motion video showing the CGI artists which part goes where. So (again, just according to this article) there was a lot of "the arm passes through the other arm," or "the arm has to break in half for it to go here" stuff.

    Some really obvious CGI cheats are: On the bridge, after the Autobots chase away the Sector 7 guys, all the Aubobots transform in unison. Bumblebee completely obscures Ironhide, so there's no need to animate that one. Ratchet, meanwhile, transforms in the back, and his entire back section literally folds out like oragami, like RA88 said. The most obvious CGI cheat is Brawl's transformation. If you look at his tank treads, you'll notice that the final step of the transformation is that the treads literally shrink until they neatly fit onto his shoulders.

    There's also just no way that the robots don't "mass shift." For example, look at Optimus Prime on the highway scene...his feet are about the same size as the SUV he almost stomps on. For more mass-shifting, just take a look at the scene where Bumblebee's legs get blown off and Jazz is sitting there in car mode. I know Bumblebee is bigger than Jazz in both modes, but come on. Bumblebee completely dwarfs Jazz right there.

    I guess the last thing I have to say is...Bonecrusher's transformation makes it obvious that the CGI artists had a 'bot mode, a car mode, but no instructions on the in-between. Don't get me wrong, I have complete faith in the CGI aritsts, and I think Transformers has the most convincing CGI I've seen in any movie...but Bonecrusher's transformation is essentially seen from under the vehicle. Who knows what kind of part-switching, arm-shrinking, mass-shifting stuff is going on up there?
     
  4. Grimlock_13

    Grimlock_13 Reformed Geewunner

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    They cheat for sure but are still far more believeable than anything from the TV shows where just limbs sprouted from nowhere and things disappeared into "subspace".
     
  5. Lord Of Tetris

    Lord Of Tetris Well-Known Member

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    Yeah. I think it's the fairest, most balanced thing to say that the movie designs do cheat, but it's by far the most convincing cheating ever done in the TF series.
     
  6. Sol Fury

    Sol Fury The British Butcher Administrator News Staff

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    Yeah, I'll agree with that. The designs take the same liberties any TF needs to take to work, it's just done extremely well and with great detail.
     
  7. red00wolf

    red00wolf insatiable collector

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    U know i was trying to just ignore this but no i cant...it is a bit dissaponting.
     
  8. Prowl

    Prowl Well-Known Member

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    I still believe my car can transform, and now that I watched this movie, I believe it even more. My only question is "where do the car seats go"? That's about the only thing I can't account for on some of them.
     
  9. Incepticon

    Incepticon Double Agent

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    Agreed. As cool as most of the transformations were, none of them convinced me that they could ever be "real". Too many size discrepancies from alt form to robot form, too many magical appearing/disappearing parts, numerous inconsistent ways of transforming (see BB, Ratchet & Blackout in particular), etc.

    The thing that bothered me more than that, though, was the ongoing scale inconsistency. One minute Prime is holding both Sam & Mikela in his hand, the next minute Sam's grandfather's glasses look like they could be worn on Bumblebee due to how big they are in Prime's hand. Megatron is also supposed to be a LOT bigger than Prime, as evident when you compare both of their sizes to Jazz, yet they end up doing face to face battle at relatively the same height. One minute you can see Blackout walking through the entire military base that he's destroying, the next minute he's no bigger than Prime when he lands in the middle of the city. Even Ironhide when in protoform mode hiding behind the tree's is ENOURMOUS compared to how small he later ends up being.

    And speaking of protoform modes... I understand why they went that route with the characters since it makes things easy to explain, but all it does is prove that these (movie) robots actually morph more than they transform. That's the only way to explain how they're so skinny & skeletal when arriving, but end up twice the size in terms of sheer mass once they scanned their disguises.

    But whatever. It works on screen and made for good eye candy. I just wished it was as believable as we were told it would be. Alternators still seem more realistic imo.
     
  10. Spartan Prime

    Spartan Prime is an apathetic douchebag

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    The only one I disagreed with was Bumblebee's turn to a car when S7 was approaching. He just seemed to mold into a Camaro, but didn't much transform.
     
  11. hyperion prime

    hyperion prime Well-Known Member

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    automorph technology,that your answer!

    they are robot that can erase or add or change stuff they want,when they transform,they just get out what they don't use and create it when need.

    that it
     
  12. red00wolf

    red00wolf insatiable collector

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    what??.................
     
  13. smkspy

    smkspy is one nice fucking kitty

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    I knew the movie designs were gonna cheat because they are fictional characters so that didn't bother me. What bothered me was the common excuse that the cartoon robots cheated. I was always like 'well duh...they're fucking cartoon robot what does anyone expect'. It was always lame to hold the cartoons to any standards compared to a movie, but its also unrealistic to also hold the movie bots to a standard that really only exists in the fan's mind. Because I guarantee not a single person who never heard of Transformers before or visited a site after watching EVER gave the realism of the transformations a second thought.
     
  14. DilaZirK

    DilaZirK Is bullheaded.

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    They cheated, yep.

    But me and my buds thought it was the coolest looking cheat ever.

    So I'm okay with it. :) 
     
  15. EvaUnit13

    EvaUnit13 REBUILD

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    I think some of the parts molded into a different shape. IIRC, all of BB's yellow armor are just car parts, and I can't understand how the arm and leg panels form. Maybe robo-muscles or something bend the armor then bend back for vehicle mode?
     
  16. Backscatter

    Backscatter Autobot Brainmaster TFW2005 Supporter

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    You can pick any movie to death for realism. Anyway, Transformers have technology that would look like frelling magic to humans. Also, "Where do the seats go?" just look ar your own Transformers.:wink: 
     
  17. OMEGAPRIME1983

    OMEGAPRIME1983 Well-Known Member

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    you know I just saw the movie in the IMAX format with my buddy, and just the cube shiffting is cheating it a lot. theres no way in hell that the cube can go from being THAAAAT freaggind big to being big enough for Sam to hold, and him still being able to ACTUALLY run around with it. The whole mass displacement thing that was supposed to of been left out of the movie really wasnt. Now dont get me wrong in thinking that I didnt like the movie, I saw it 4x in theaters and 1x in the IMAX. I loved the movie, but the mass shifting and parts "disappearing into sub-space" went out the window when Baricade transformed the first time.
     
  18. Ravenxl7

    Ravenxl7 W.A.F.F.L.E.O.

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    I personally think that since the Allspark is so powerfull, that it would have abilities beyond what we can contemplate actually happening in real life :thumb .
     
  19. EvaUnit13

    EvaUnit13 REBUILD

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    Yeah, you're right. No doubt it must've been heavy, and even if the mass decreases, the volume will decrease too, so it would keep the same density, so how did Sam carry it around?


    Ehh, it's a movie about robots from outer space. Watcha gonna do?
     
  20. SlayerDarkCross

    SlayerDarkCross -----------> ? TFW2005 Supporter

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    Honestly to me their alien robots your not supposed to understand them. =P

    Because they scanned the vehicles does that mean they have the same kind of metal? Frenzy got destroyed as well as a boombox with a hacksaw would so who knows.

    They may cheat but they do a hell of a job to make it as real as possible.
     

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