Did Optimus get weaker ?

Discussion in 'Transformers General Discussion' started by SureShot90, Nov 8, 2007.

  1. SureShot90

    SureShot90 Peace=superior firepower

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    I've been wondering a lot about this lately but doesn't it seem so that the later representations of Optimus Prime depicts him as a physically weaker person each time all while Megatron gets stronger and Galvatron insanely strong ?.
    Think about it ! either Prime needs minicons or combinerbots or cyberplanet key or some combined mode just to get a slight edge over Megatron.
    I especially think about Prime in Beast Machines, Armada, Energon, Cybertron... I haven't watched much Beast Wars or R.i.D so I can't comment on that.
    Actually I only see Prime in G.1 as being a the worthy "opponent" to Megatron/Galvatron and actually being slightly stronger.

    Well that's just how I see it... what do you think ?
    Megatron may got stronger but his might got weak whereas it's vice versa for Prime ?
     
  2. Nevermore

    Nevermore It's self-perpetuating a parahumanoidarianised!

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    Back in G1, Prime was a single toy. Cab/robot, trailer/battle station and Roller.

    In newer lines, Hasbro/Takara want to sell the toy with a super mode, combiner features and whatnot. In order to justify that, they have to depict the "standard" Prime unit as weaker.
     
  3. Ravenxl7

    Ravenxl7 W.A.F.F.L.E.O.

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    While those were cool imo, I'm actually glad that the movie and now Animated are stepping away from that. We've finally gone back to having Prime with one robot mode. As for Prime "getting weaker", this has been debated before. I personally think it makes sens to have Prime weaker than Megs. This way they can show how the Autobots work as a team to defeat their enemys, instead of powering themselves up like the Decepticons to try and defeat their enemy themselves.
     
  4. SureShot90

    SureShot90 Peace=superior firepower

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    In G.1 they worked as a team still - and also they (autobots) all do power up individually with minicons, cyberkeys etc so it's pretty much back to 0... I think Nevermores "profit" argument is pretty valid, I never thought of it in that perspective.... no wonder G.1 Prime is still the one and only Prime in my book.
     
  5. Dirge121

    Dirge121 Eat the chikums

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    Also, having Megatron more powerful than Prime adds some danger to the script. You know the Autobots will win, but they won't be ridiculously easy fights anymore. The Autobots may have difficulty defeating them. Its no longer, 'Primes here, we may as well take a break, he can take care of the 'Cons'.

    Personally I love seeing Mega/Galvatron handing Prime and his autobots their collective asses single-handed. That said, I liked BW for the reason that they were usually evenly matched. Only if the script called for it, did Primal Whup Megatron.
     
  6. SPLIT LIP

    SPLIT LIP Dry built

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    In BW Primal and Megs were pretty evenly matched. Usualy it'd be a close fight, or in some cases Primal would totaly catch the 'Cons off guard, Megs would sometimes do the same.

    RID Prime wasn't always weak, he usualy kicked ass fine in sigle robot form, and didn't usualy use his super mode for combat. (usually to put out fires or to use the Blizzard storm) Megs was a whimp. Sky-byte led the Predacons way more than Megs did. Sky-byte's attacks usually faired better than Megs)
     
  7. Grimlock_13

    Grimlock_13 Reformed Geewunner

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    Like I said in another thread the other day, I'm glad Optimus isn't an all-powerful demigod anymore. I like good facing a more powerful force of evil, and having to overcome it.
     
  8. Dirge121

    Dirge121 Eat the chikums

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    To be fair, any of the Predacon stooges did more damage than Megatron. A single one of the Decepticons did too.
     
  9. SureShot90

    SureShot90 Peace=superior firepower

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    Personally I never regarded G.1 Optimus as a demigod nor a super physically superior to Megatron. Megatron could still give him a severe beating.
    But he could beat Megatron out of sheer willpower, something I think many other "Primes" lacked, and also buy using his brains and outsmart Meg's. G.1 Prime never made direct confrontations unless forced to (Cyb. Prime does so all the time). Also he's not the one man army that could take one all decepticon singlehandedly, more episodes showed that... he did it in the movie, but that you could describe as being out of shere "energon adrenaline" and determination to once and for all stop them.

    I'm not saying I don't like the other Optimus Prime incarnations but I'm really fed up with that "underpowered" bs. If they think it may make more people sympathize with Prime or the Autobot cause that fails, at least in my opinion. I don't want a "Prime Superior", I want equals not making you sympathize with one instead of the other in terms of strength...
    What's the idea of making you dependent on "power ups" to beat the enemy (which you beat anyway when "powered up")... then you might as well create equals.
     
  10. WhiteMocha

    WhiteMocha TFW2005 Supporter

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    What he said.

    Better to have Prime as an underdog, that we want to root for. Plus, it's hard to identify/sympatize with an all-powerful character.... how many of us can relate to that?
     
  11. SureShot90

    SureShot90 Peace=superior firepower

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    Obviously many kids could back in the 80ties, and saw Prime as a role model... Armada/Energon/Cyb. Prime I don't see as a role model.

    Your not getting my point !. When Prime power-ups with whatever he has and beat the crap out of Meg's anyway what is there to sympathize about ?. If they want to make Prime less strong, then at least make him smarter so he don't just throw himself head-on into fights and show more "brains over brawn".
    See my previous comment.
     
  12. WhiteMocha

    WhiteMocha TFW2005 Supporter

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    Fair enough! And you're right, I did miss your last post. :)  I think I understand more what you're saying now.

    In that case, I can agree with you. I'd prefer a more inherently powerful Prime to a weak Prime who can power-up any time he chooses simply for false drama and the gimmick factor.
     
  13. Johnator

    Johnator 'Til All Are Gone!

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    I agree with SureShot. It is hard to like a superpowerful Prime in my book. I like it when Megatron is Prime's equal. It adds a level of drama to it and forces the Autobots to rely on other methods such as intellect and strategy.
     
  14. SureShot90

    SureShot90 Peace=superior firepower

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    Yup exactly.. good way of putting it :thumb 
    E.g in cybertron later in the series he constantly links up to Sonic Wingmode... even just to kick Ransack and Dark Crumplezones asses... come on, talk about excessive power abuse.
     
  15. Black Oracle

    Black Oracle Black Convoy's Dark Angel

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    I think this may be one of the features that distinguishes G1 Prime from his more recent incarnations. G1 Prime was always portrayed as at least Megatron's equal in strength and intellect, but never his inferior. Whilst G1 Prime could out-think and over-power Megatron if he wanted most of the time, he always remained aware of Megatron's capabilities and the threat he posed, never underestimating his enemy. He had the right balance of brains and brawns i think in how he fought strategically on the battlefield, moved with the skill of a seasoned fighter and anticipated his enemy's intentions. These characteristics are perhaps not as clearly emphasized in the Primes of recent years who seem to just get to battles and jump right into challenges of brute power and strength that can often end up with them been injured. We don't see all that much of their leadership skills in instructing troops or strategic thinking.

    With the upcomig Animated at least, it does seem that they're favouring a more powerful Megatron for the Autobots to contend with. And Optimus is apparently going to be a fairly new leader rising to the challenge. An initially weaker Optimus could or could not work well in impressing an audience. We'll have to see. But if they're planning to build up and show his progress as a developing leader then that could potentially work quite well in earning our respect for his character.
     
  16. Chaos Muffin

    Chaos Muffin Misadventure Veteran

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    Seems they're making him more under-doggish so he has to use more Prime skills to fight back and display what makes him such a great leader.

    If he was too strong, his work would be easy and would hog all the glory.
    I like that he's about equal to the Autobots these days, which makes his leadership even stronger. Plus the rest of the bots seem more useful this way.

    just a thought
     
  17. shreddertron

    shreddertron Well-Known Member

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    Well from the few episodes I caught of the AEC trilogy it's standard Shonen(Young Boys) anime. Usually the main character wins using courage,love,justice or friendship, which Prime used at the end of Cybertron.

    So in order to not facilitate this the main character is really dumb/headstrong and is slightly weaker than his adversaries. We can't let Japan take all the credit, since Hot Rod from in the movie also followed this mold. So this probably explains these recent years of Narutomis Prime.
     
  18. Raven Zombie

    Raven Zombie Liege Ravnos Muerte

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    well think of it in terms of a priest vs a gangbanger... they are 2 totaly different social classes. one may even be carrying a wepon. the priest is just there to spread peace, and not made to fight at all, and will eventually be a martyr if killed.
    the gangbanger was bread for fighting, but lacks guidence in the long run, and is destined for nothing but destruction

    or maybe farmer vs military general...

    the newer shows are made so good triumphs over evil... g1 prime actually died. he earned respect as a fictional character can.
     
  19. Black Oracle

    Black Oracle Black Convoy's Dark Angel

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    It's true, I think amongst G1 Prime's shining cartoon moments was when he successfully rallied and led his troops into battle, and he would always know what to do to lead the Autobots to victory.
     
  20. Reeds

    Reeds Q-Wing Pilot TFW2005 Supporter

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    Yeah, we've all hated Superman for the past near 80 years. :p 

    Prime being weak isn't good for story. A good writer doesn't need the handicap. He can write a good story with a strong protagonist as well as antagonist. Its just easier.

    I mean, you can't honestly think there was any skilled writer for that retardathon Energon turned out to be. At episode 30, it was over, but they milked it with Power Ranger-esque super ultra mega power prime with god sword nonsense and the battle lasted over 20 episodes. Worst. TF Show. Eva.

    Prime was equally matched with Megatron in G1 and again in the movie and it took exogenous variables (look at me with the big words! :p  ) to tilt the odds in either's favor and they both were great because of it.
     

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