But... a continuity and a timeline aren't the same thing. If anything, you've proved the opposite. While there is normally continuity within a timeline, the term continuity from a narrative perspective is more aligned to a "universe". There can actually be multiple timelines within the same continuity, so long as they interact with each other, and star trek is an excellent example of this. Similarly, stories set in the same continuity can go back and tell different stories either in between or during events that happen in another story, and still have both be in-continuity with each other, as is also extremely common in the star trek expanded universe.
I'm amazed you wouldn't look things up before trying to argue about it.Look I don't like telling people they are flat wrong but it can't be helped here. Enterprise had only 2 mirror universe episodes.What you did get right was that the first ENT mirror episode was number 18 of season 4, the 2nd and last ENT mirror episode was episode 19.The season only had 22 episodes, and then the series was canceled.It was the first of the Star Trek spin offs not to make it to 7 seasons. please, please, please Go look at the set your dad has.Enterprise only had 2 mirror episodes.Thats it. Before you reply check that set, or any of the links at the end of the post. . you are right there, thats why I stopped counting it.,I still think it was as great connection for the writers of Enterprise to make. I'm sorry you disagree, but, Yes, creators, Gene Roddenberry created the premise for the original series, but he did not make the series all by himself.He had writers, actors filmers and so on.HeNG, but again he did not work alone in making the series.Also, Voyager,Enterprise and to a large extend, DS9 ,were created with no input from Gene, so yes, the series had other creators.I wont even get into how Gene loose his influence and was made a figure head. captain dunsel indeed.[ a "no prize" to the first one to tell me where thats from] exactly.And that is what I have been talking about from the start.I was trying to demonstrate that from within the context of the fiction, the mirror universe is similar to the different G1 universe in that they have different histories but many familiar elements to each other but still separate. continuity/universe/timeline/continuum/reality, choose what ever word you like because they are all interchangeable.I was never talking about the issue from the "context of our reality"... as you put it. now, as I detest long online debates, I hope I do not have to revisit this. and yes,I would and have referred to our reality as a continuity when having conversations about possible alternate realities and how they may differ.I did so with my college professors. incase you are a fan of scripts heres a site with the script of every series and episodes, the 2nd link is for ENT scripts The Star Trek Transcripts Enterprise Transcripts - Episode listing heres a link to a list of all episodes List of Star Trek: Enterprise episodes - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia heres a link to memory alphas page on the ent. series Star Trek: Enterprise - Memory Alpha, the Star Trek Wiki heres a link to ma's mirror universe and all its appearances. Mirror universe - Memory Alpha, the Star Trek Wiki here is a list of every episode to take place in the mirror universe from ma. Appearances Edit This list contains 8 items (show all • hide all) ENT: (2) "In a Mirror, Darkly" "In a Mirror, Darkly, Part II" TOS: "Mirror, Mirror" DS9: (5) "Crossover" "Through the Looking Glass" "Shattered Mirror" "Resurrection" "The Emperor's New Cloak" heres ma's links on the 2 mu ENT episodes http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/In_a_Mirror,_Darkly_(episode) http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/In_a_Mirror,_Darkly,_Part_II_(episode)
and where do the events come from? the stories.So the timeline does deal with the stories. In a work of fiction..........what do those stories form all together????A list of events, the stories combined are the events combined into a continuity of events that can also be called a timeline. In fiction A timeline cant exist without the stories ,events,continuity.They are all 1 and the same thing
In star trek, each timeline is and has its own continuity, meaning its own series of events that lead them to the point in time they are in. As pointed out, A timeline is list of events and at what point in time they happened. A continuity is the actual stories that tell us those list of events and at what point in time they happened. Those stories together form a list of events,the list of events is called a continuity, that can also be called a timeline. And yes, different timelines can interact with each other, but in many cases, those other timelines have their own continuity, meaning different events that lead them to that point.
No, each timeline has continuity (except the ones where linear time starts to break down I guess), but they all exist within the same continuity of story. That's how come they're all part of the same greater branching story. Maybe we should be using Continuity with a capital C to describe Continuity as a term for an overall narrative setting and relationship of events/characters.
please dont take this as rude, but As I really hate long debates i'm going to try to sum this up for a last post. you are using the word as it applies to the art of writing and story telling.And in that fashion, you are correct, but many words take on different definitions depending on the context of the conversation. I'm going to post 1 sentence over a few times and I'm going to interject a few interchangeable words but I'm sure you will still understand my point. In the G1 cartoon UNIVERSE the Dinobots were created on earth by Wheeljack. In the G1 cartoon REALITY the Dinobots were created on earth by Wheeljack. In the G1 cartoon CONTINUITY the Dinobots were created on earth by Wheeljack. In the G1 cartoon TIMELINE the Dinobots were created on earth by Wheeljack. In the G1 cartoon SPACE TIME CONTINUUM the Dinobots were created on earth by Wheeljack. in the context of this sentence, each of those words are describing the same thing, the events seen about the dinobot creation in the g1 cartoon.They are interchangeable with each other.
Ah but if everyone pays so much attention to the cartoon - why is it that the bits of lesser interest get semi-ignored. Flying Autobots Laser Cores (not sparks) - Though that's easily got around by saying the Laser Core is the part of the spark chamber that interfaces with the body and the spark itself. Frankly most people I notice no longer pay any notice to the idea of the Dinobots being created on Earth By Wheeljack 'in a broader context' if only as it hammers home the idea of the Dinobots being stupid. Even that has a work around (just like the ideas about combiner origins do) which is that the Dinobots and the combiners were "Possibly" recreated from a preexisting personality programme or robot parts. Take the way Wheeljack upgrades the Dinobots to make them smarter... "How" where did he get the personality engrams from - why are the Dinobots "Alive" and not just souless drones - you have that problem if you say they are made on earth you don't if you say otherwise. Besides the Beast Wars comic implies Grimlock pre-exists/post exists and might be his own daddy - which sort of makes you wonder if the personality templates of all the Dinobots in that context them becomes the Beast Wars Mutants that someone found in the arks vicinity. Regardless of that the cartoon shows - I know only the most extreme of cartoon purists don't happily ignore great chunks of it when it suits them. Oh I love a Star Trek timeline discussion - but I'll keep it in my pants this time = here is not the place (make another thread and I'll be all over it though). --- Oh and saying Star Trek : The Original Series is "Crap" is flame bating - I might understand someone saying it about the other shows as some of them smell like they were wrote by a committee sometimes, but evn though much of Deepspace Nine is mind numbingly boring and not a lot of it bares rewatching as a concept overall I'm glad it exists - if only for the Dominion War. However The Original Series is a Sci-Fi show that shows a positive future for mankind (more or less) and displays 'hope'. That is one very strong reason why it's a 'good' show - but even on top of that the Triumvirate of Spock, McCoy & Kirk are just really good strong characters and always fun to watch... By watching the new movies and seeing where they go wrong it only goes to show the areas where the old show was so strong - and visually in HD the filmed parts actually look really nice sometimes - it Upscales quite well - better than ST:TNG does anyway - that looks merky a grainy and textureless on a big TV if you try to have it looking better (Videotape sucks for any upscale attempts) . A great example of this is the textured uniforms in the new Movies - some might wonder why? If you go watch the old series in HD you will see why right away the texture was there all along it was just invisible on SD. Perhaps what we have to do now is look on G1 in the same way and say sometimes there thing that were there all along even if they were 'invisible' or not originally intended. Case in point being that there's nothing at all in the 1986 Movie to say that the Quintessons are Minions of Unicron - that might be in the script or support materials - but if you watch the Movie there is nothing about it at all.... The link between them seems just coincidence - but many now would say they do his Bidding or are even his own answer to the Children of Cybertron that Primus has. Who is another case in point as Primus is seen by most as actually being in Cybertron and responsible for the Transformers - Vector Sigma and even the Matrix or the allspark or other similar ideas like the "Well of allsparks" or the Matrix flame either get tacked on to that or sidelined. The G1 Cartoon had one or two very good ideas ones I support and will fight for that includes a sensible attitude to females and the Comic has some "better" ideas like Primus and Unicron that I'm happy to stand up for. I'm not happy just having one it's got to be a blend for me to be G1 in whole.... in short the G1 I like is the G1 that Beast Wars sees as G1 it's a bit comic like it's a bit cartoon like - but it's not a clone of either.
Not trying to "bait" you or anything here, like you said, you made everything pretty clear so it's all grizzly m'lizard!!! Just a couple thoughts to get down...no reply necessary but feel free obviously. [Side note; if you see me doing this - "G1" - it's merely because I'm just not comfortable / flat-out refuse to apply it to the original series itself.] THIS is a hundred percent correct. You CAN use each of those words for those purposes, I don't see anything wrong with any of it. It's fine to refer to the "G1" continuity AS a continuity. However earlier, and I think this was the larger point of all the following contention, there were points where you were using the word in reference to storylines set within other storylines. When talking about fictional storytelling there's not really such a thing as a "continuity WITHIN a continuity". If you were to say "G1 cartoon continuity" [and you specified which one of course] you COULD safely be referring solely to the events depicted in the U.S. Sunbow run as a continuity. It's very own, self-contained continuity. You could also take the Marvel Comics Transformers "G1" stories and refer to THEM as a continuity. The "US G1 comics continuity". But if the stories in the comics and the stories in the cartoons have any kind of connection, ANY kind, then it's kinda weird / incorrect to still refer to them as continuities. In this scenario they'll each belong to, take place in, the one continuity. When we here in the real world view, read, discuss, or refer to storylines there's only ever one continuity at a time. If we're talking about the Star Trek [Prime Universe] continuity we mean TOS, TNG, DS9, ect. [Whatever's been officially declared canon by the authority] All of those separate stories fall under the umbrella of one single continuity. They aren't, each of them, individual continuities unto themselves.
no prob bud, so far I have been impressed with the civility you have displayed in this topic. thank you I'm not sure what you mean with this. Sorry but I disagree. We already agree that a continuity is the stories and events in those stories.So in a way you can compare it to a person, as a person is the sum of the stories and events of their life. I as a person am the total sum of all the events and stories of my life, so Call me continuity Bob. You, as a person am the total sum of all the events and stories of your life, so we will call you continuity Steve. As We are 2 separate people we are 2 separate continuities Now lets say we meet at the next Comic con.And we hang out for a few days and then go our separate ways.We do not become one continuity just because we shared a short time together. TNG,DS9 Voyager, aside for some particular episodes, take place in one continuity.For the most part, they just take place in different parts of space, kind of like how members here live in different parts of the world.TOS and ENT take place in the past of the same continuity. But, the mirror universe, and other self contained and self existing realities that we have seen are considered their own continuities.Yes, they may have once interacted with whats called the prime universe, but that doesnt make them one.
THIS is a TIMELINE: I'm using Marvel Comics Cosmic stories here for the example: -Kree-Skrull War occurs. -Guardians of the Galaxy (original team) stories happen -Secret Wars (if you count that) -Infinity Gauntlet -Infinity War -Infinity Crusade -Operation Galactic Storm -Annihilation -Annihilation Conquest -War of Kings -Reign of Kings (I got those two in the right order right?) -Thanos Imperative That's a timeline. What's a continuity then? Everything that actually OCCURS in that timeline. And ALL OTHER Timelines that are part of the same continuity. Thanos going into the Cancerverse, Lord Mar-Vell and the Revengers hitting ours, that's all part of continuity. One thing and the other may be SIMILAR and may INTERSECT, but they are definitely NOT THE SAME.
AW PISS OFF, MATE!!! Why have we bumped heads over some world-defining triviality in the past? Sorry if I've ever transformed into "Raging Prick Mode" on 'ya. Instruwebs 'an all that. I just mean that it was throwing a few people, who then made attempts to "correct" you, when you were saying things like this-- [If they've intersected it establishes they're both taking place in the same continuity.] [The fictional world IS the continuity.] [They are most certainly one continuity. They take place in the same fictional world as each other. In the same continuity as each other.] [The Marvel Universe, The DCU, Next Men, The Transformers [original], Star Trek [Prime U], Back to the Future, Lost, ect, ect, are all examples of a single continuity containing more than one timeline.] HA-HA!! "You big Goof-ball!"-[best Cybertron Ransack voice]. That was funny, for real. No, we don't. But we also can't BE continuities. "Continuity Bob", c'mon you know that don't even sound right. People are things, not concepts. But Ok, let's call my own personal life story "my" continuity. My series of events. By doing this very thing you've set the parameters of what's included. Of who's included. Of all the events and places and things and people I run into along the way. All of these things would be a part of my continuity. They would be included as part of my story. So [in my story, in my continuity] if I were to meet you your continuity isn't relevant. It's not your story. You'd be in MY continuity. And vice-verse. But in reality, whether we meet or not, the events of our separate lives, our individual stories, are taking place together, at the same time, in one single continuity of events.
Labels are everything otherwise there would be no debate about G1/G2. Whatever Hasbro/TT decide to call their toys is what they are. I say toys because that's what the brand is. Marvel comics, sunbow, IDW, etc do not own the brand. The toons and comics are almost glorified toy advertisements. The first brand was Transformers, then G2, Beast Wars, Armada etc. CHUG maybe a homage to characters from the 1st line but it will never be G1. G1 represents an era of toy making and a golden age for the brand. Just like Superman and Batman both had a gold age then silver age of comic books.
no i was being serious.I don't think I'v e ever seen you in prick mode, at least not with me no it doesnt.to take place in the same continuity their histories have to be EXACTLY the same.Even 1 event thats different means it has a different continuity. Let me ask you thjis question.Do you think that the DCU and the Marvel U are taking place in 1 continuity? A fictional world can contain many continuities.DC comics lays claim to 52 continuities in their multiverse. excuse me, I think you misquoted me.That was not the post I made What i said was "TNG,DS9 Voyager, aside for some particular episodes, take place in one continuity.For the most part, they just take place in different parts of space, kind of like how members here live in different parts of the world.TOS and ENT take place in the past of the same continuity. But, the mirror universe, and other self contained and self existing realities that we have seen are considered their own continuities.Yes, they may have once interacted with whats called the prime universe, but that doesn't make them one." and the DCU and Marvel U have intersected so many times. no, they would be taking place in a multi-verse of different continuities.
those particular events are part of the main continuity.But Lord marvel comes from a different continuity.the cancerverse is a continuity of its own that has interacted with the 616 continuity.The events of his past history are not exactly like that of 616.
FYP!! I'm all good, I think the rest of us were pretty cool. Got into a little side thing but it's cool. Couple of us tried to illustrate where we felt Altered Prime was using a word the wrong way, Altered Prime offered up his reasoning, and the world keeps spinnin'.
You're blowin' my mind over here. I haven't just come back from the Wiki or anything [plus don't consider a wiki article 100% authority] but I'm going to say no, I don't think they are. I also don't KNOW this though. I know how these things work. I don't know if DC stuff like Amalgam or Just Imagine is the ACTUAL characters or like those "generic universes" that they place those inter-company crossovers in [in order to keep their continuities separate]. That's the quote. This guy said this- You replied this- --I just added the series referred to illustrate what they was. But we exist in a UNI-verse with one continuity. Whatever I did last Monday and whatever you did last Monday happened in the same place, at the same time, are elements of the same story. The certainty that it's possible for us to cross paths, are even communicating right now, is proof that we exist in the same continuity of events, the same story. I can run into you, you exist in the same story I do, [regardless of the differences in our personal histories]. I can't run into Armada Starscream.
see, thats the point I'm trying to make.The DCU and MU are 2 separate continuities, but they have intersected many times over the years.Sometimes those stories are considered "1 shot' that have no connection to the mainstream continuity, but in others they are fully acknowledged.But just because these continuities met at some point doesn't mean they become 1 continuity. and since you mentioned it, Amalgam was a combined effort from DC and Marvel.The Amalgam universe was the result of the 2 mainstream DC and Marvel continuities meeting and merging into 1 continuity.As a result, we had characters like Bruce Wayne agent of Shield, the Super Soldier, Magneto and the Magnetic Men, Spiderboy, Iron Lantern and others. Now I understand what happened, you mistook what I was saying.Here it is again with what I was talking about underlined and bolded. SouthtownKid said :All the universes in the Star Trek episodes of the original series and Next Generation share a single continuity. They all exist side by side. I Altered Prime replied: they exist Side by side yes...........but they are not 1 continuity. by "they" I mean the different universes, like the many different ones Worf traveled to in the TNG episode Parallels, we have seen in all the different trek series. Thats very true.I must have misunderstood you before. You and i , or our individual continuities exist in a creator continuity we call our world, our lives are part of an even greater continuity we can call a generation, and we can continue to described even greater continuities such as an era or age or history............and the ultimate the continuity of time itself.
