Decepticon's second in command? Shockwave or Starscream

Discussion in 'Transformers General Discussion' started by Lazerwave, Jan 26, 2011.

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Who do you think is more of the Decepticon second in command?

  1. Shockwave

    22 vote(s)
    48.9%
  2. Starscream

    23 vote(s)
    51.1%
  1. Lazerwave

    Lazerwave My Most Prized Treasure

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    It's been puzzling me. Who do you think is more second in command like of the Decepticons? Starscream or Shockwave?

    Starscream: Because it seems that he is next in line for the thrown.

    Shockwave: Because he is most loyal to Megatron and he is powerful and brave as Megatron.
     
  2. Karhukjnsi

    Karhukjnsi Universal Wrestler

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  3. Prowl 2009

    Prowl 2009 A Decepticons Downfall

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    Shockwave is second in command for that exact reason. He, unlike coniving Starscream, remains loyal to Megatron and never tries to supliment his own agenda. His goal is to help Megatron acheive his goal of victory over the Autobots and rule over Cybertron. Also, he is the one Megatron left in charge when the Decepticons left Cybertron, because Megatron knew Shockwave wouldn't try to userp him in his absense from Cybertron.

    Second in command is Shockwave.
     
  4. Fishdirt

    Fishdirt Tin Toy Transformer

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    Shockwave was leader of cybertron and not on the frontline so no, he can't be second in command. Second in commands need to take over for leaders in times that compromise the leader. Starscream did just that in g1. Shockwave was just babysitting on cybertron. Too far to do any good on earth.
     
  5. Prowl 2009

    Prowl 2009 A Decepticons Downfall

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    True enough, I just can't see Megs installing a doublecrosser like Starscream as second in command should anything happen to him in battle, but then again, it was Starscream who assumed the role of leader in Transformers: The Movie, allbeit, for all of 6-seconds. :p 
     
  6. sto_vo_kor_2000

    sto_vo_kor_2000 Banned

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    In the cartoon Starscream was 2nd in command.Theres no logical reason to question it.

    Even early in season 1, where it was believed Megatron was killed ,"The Ultimate doom", Starscream asserted his authority over Shockwave.

    Shockwave never challenged that authority.
     
  7. Thyme

    Thyme Disciple of Yun-Harla

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    Logical response: Shockwave
     
  8. Voiceroy

    Voiceroy Trans-fo-mahs!

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  9. SMOG

    SMOG Vocab-champion ArgueTitan

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    Yeah, Cartoon Shockwave was a colossal loser. Starscream is #2 on TV.

    In most of the other fictions (the ones that count! :lol  ), it's Shockwave. They're both incredibly intelligent and competent, one driven by ego, the other (ostensibly) by logic. But however much Starscream likes to posture, Shockwave is just far more powerful.

    Interestingly, the question of loyalties and chain of command has been obscure in the IDW ongoing series (though inconsistency is certainly a common problem in that book). Starscream was clearly on top of the food chain after Megatron's defeat, though there was some dissent from Razorclaw, that sadly never got explored as a plot point (typical Costa, good ideas/awful implementation). When Shockwave showed up, he didn't seize control, and seemed to be working for him, but then seems to have revived Megatron. It's unclear whether Shockwave is working as Starscream's subordinate (ulterior motives notwithstanding) or simply as a "free agent".

    zmog
     
  10. FatalT 71

    FatalT 71 Mr. JazzHunter

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    I can't speak to Marvel continuity since I only had the first 15 issues and barely remember them - although I do remember Shockwave seizing control.

    As far as the cartoon, Starscream was definitely second-in-command - when Starscream confronted Shockwave in "Countdown to Extinction", Shockwave backed down.

    From what I've read in IDW, Shockwave appears to be more concerned with his experiments and lab work - Starscream is more of a field commander. Even Megatron acknowledges that one day, Starscream will lead the Decepticons.
     
  11. Autovolt 127

    Autovolt 127 Get In The Titan, Prime!

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    Logic dictates Shockwave should be second in command.
     
  12. Ruination04

    Ruination04 8 Years Old Since 1984!

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    Shockwave was just a soldier. He followed Megatron's orders and was left in charge of Cybertron. Megatron would want his "Numba 1" with him. Starscream is def. 2nd.

    But then again, Starscream was only 'air commander." I would guess that means all of Aerial forces. Shockwave was Military Operations Commander.....He was in charge of ALL forces. Damn...I just talked myself out of my own opinion! I am undecided now!!!!!
     
  13. Grand Sword

    Grand Sword Well-Known Member

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    Can I throw Soundwave into the equation?
     
  14. Fishdirt

    Fishdirt Tin Toy Transformer

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    Where's the logic in Shockwave? He's not a fighter or a strategist. Again, in military terms, an army base guard doesn't make a marine field commander. Starscream is strong on both fronts.

    Soundwave I could almost give. He's not really a fighter but he is a strategist of sorts and commands his own small army in a way but then again every gestalt has a leader except maybe devy.

    I have to go with Sto_vo here...The answer has been given over 20 years ago.
     
  15. sto_vo_kor_2000

    sto_vo_kor_2000 Banned

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    Well, keep in mind some people may be only considering his comic persona or the one from the toy bio's.

    You dont become a MILITARY OPERATIONS COMMANDER in the middle of a war with out proving yourself as a field commander.And in the Marvel comics, Shockwave proved himself to be an effective fighter.

    But in the toon, he was nothing but a glorified security guard.
     
  16. SMOG

    SMOG Vocab-champion ArgueTitan

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    This is true, though I think there are two other factors to consider.

    1.
    Based on their relationship in some of the other comics fictions, Megatron just doesn't LIKE Shockwave. Starscream is a sort of Megatron's "protege" (especially in AHM) so he puts up with his insubordination because he thinks it's cute... but Shockwave is a genuine RIVAL and a threat. On some level, Megatron can probably relate to Starscream's burning ambition, but Shockwave's affected emotional detachment bothers him. It probably even frightens him a little, deep down.

    2.
    In IDW at least, nobody's seen Shockwave in about 40 million years. When he finally reappeared, he hooked up with Soundwave, but didn't deal with Megatron at all. Shortly after, he got nailed by Grimlock & co, and sent to the Garrus prison facility, so he's been out of the picture for a long time... his status may be a bit uncertain. Even millions of years ago, he seemed to work primarily as an independent, so it's possible that he is sanctioned to operate autonomously outside the usual hierarchy.

    According to the old Tech Spec bios, Shockwave and Starscream have 9 Rank, with Soundwave as just an 8. I think the key here is that Soundwave is not a leader, but he is an able spymaster and administrative officer who loyally serves whoever is strongest.

    According to his G1 bio, he is pretty much a sycophant and blackmailer who will do anything to hold on to his position next to the throne, but who is too smart to make himself a target as leader. Which is probably a good idea, because apparently the other Decepticons all HATE him (except maybe his little buddies...).

    I suggest you read some of the comics and then come back. :) 
    Check Shockwave's original long bio here:
    http://www.ntfa.net/universe/english/index.php?act=view&char=Shockwave

    Shockwave is the Military Operations Commander. Basically, he's the top officer and strategist for the Decepticons. The military commander, if you view Megatron as being more like a king or "emperor of destruction" maybe. ;) 

    Soundwave is a communications officer, and probably the main intelligence guy. Starscream is the Aerospace Commander. I think Shockwave probably trumps both of them in terms of his official position.

    As for being a "security guard", I think that's giving even Cartoon Shockwave a bad rap... the guy is still the Decepticon commanding officer in charge of all of Cybertron. Granted, we don't see much going on back on Cybertron, other than when some Autobots hijack the spacebridge and come over for a joyride, but that's still a fairly high-ranking position.

    In the Dreamwave comics, it went even further, where Shox was running the whole planet, both Bots AND Cons, all the while cultivating his grand scheme to use Cybertron to conquer the universe and keeping Ultra Magnus as his personal flunky. If you look around the media, you'll see that Shockwave is depicted as a meticulous, dangerous, big-picture plotter more than anything else.

    Again, only in the cartoon, which is not the definitive version of Transformers, even if it was the most accessible for the kiddies. :) 

    No kidding! His bio states that he is "second only to Megatron" in power. Alone, he handed all 5 Dinobots their collective asses, defeated a weakened Megatron in single combat, and put enough fear in him that Megatron didn't want to confront him directly after that. That takes some doing.

    In Dreamwave, he held his ground against Prime and Magnus together (but lost), and even in the IDW series, we again saw Shockwave fight the Dinobot team to a virtual standstill by himself. The guy is a powerhouse!

    Of course, in Marvel there was that one time where Prime fought Shockwave, and it amounted to Prime just picking him up and throwing him into a swamp. For a guy with his power and the ability to fly, he seems to have a particular weakness to avalanches, swamps, quicksand, tar-pits, etc... :) 

    zmog
     
  17. Alucard77

    Alucard77 Kaon Gladiator Champion

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    I would like to second this.
     
  18. Vla

    Vla Well-Known Member

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    Shockwave. Starscream is not a second-in-command really. He just trying to be this, despite of Megatron's real opinions about him.
     
  19. SMOG

    SMOG Vocab-champion ArgueTitan

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    See, this is something I'm never really sure about. Who does Megatron actually like more?

    As I mention above, I always saw Starscream as someone that Megatron tolerates, because he approves of his ambition, but doesn't consider him a true threat. Following the IDW model, he may even consider him his "apprentice" of sorts.

    But in almost every media (except the cartoon, where Shockwave wasn't even a contender), Megatron seems to have utter contempt for Shockwave and his logical ways. Not only that, but it seems like he may actually consider him a true danger to him, due to Shockwave's competency and raw power.

    zmog
     
  20. Surge

    Surge Village Dolt

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    Isn't it obvious? Shockwave. Atleast, in the G1 cartoon anyway. I'm fairly new to G1 but Starscream is starting to annoy the hell out of me.
     

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