Cyberverse Ultra and Ultimate packaging stock photos

Discussion in 'Transformers News and Rumors' started by Nevermore, Apr 15, 2018.

  1. Shepard Prime

    Shepard Prime autobot

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2011
    Posts:
    2,072
    Trophy Points:
    222
    Likes:
    +1,208
    Prime being completely retooled for it's third season isn't a result of market research data, it's Hasbro messing up with coordinating the Aligned universe. The cancellations and near cancellations have to do with CN. TLK being a flop (or "flop" since only in Hollywood can half a billion dollars be a considered a flop because they intentionally cook the books) also has nothing to do with market research data and everything to do with the creative side of it while chasing AoE's BO of a billion dollars.

    Matter of fact, almost none of the stuff you listed really has anything to do with market research. Almost all of that is piss-poor decision making but that's not market research at fault, that's inept management.

    What size is the Ultimate Optimus btw? I keep googling and I can't really find a concrete answer on it. He doesn't look like what's been the normal size for Ultimate figures lately. So Voyager? I'm curious because I'm really leaning towards getting him. I like his design (covered fists notwithstanding).
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 14, 2018
    • Like Like x 2
  2. Philip164

    Philip164 Board Member

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2010
    Posts:
    2,313
    News Credits:
    3
    Trophy Points:
    222
    Likes:
    +295
    We really don't know how big these guys are to previous lines, but within the line we know. Hasbro's been real good at not showing these guys off from the Back, Sides, or next to any other Transformer.

    [​IMG]
     
    • Like Like x 1
  3. SMOG

    SMOG Vocab-champion ArgueTitan

    Joined:
    May 13, 2006
    Posts:
    18,728
    Trophy Points:
    332
    Location:
    Robot Narnia, Quebec
    Likes:
    +1,635
    You keep saying this. However, based on the experience of being a kid, and knowing kids, and playing with kids, I don't think that it's true.

    It's pretty basic. Make a good all-around toy. Don't cut corners for the lowest common denominator. Kids will appreciate it. Adults will appreciate it. Win-Win.

    zmog
     
    • Like Like x 6
  4. WishfulThinking

    WishfulThinking "Don't touch it! It's evil!"

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2014
    Posts:
    9,337
    News Credits:
    4
    Trophy Points:
    262
    Location:
    Wichita, KS
    Likes:
    +5,511
    Looks like (l to r) voyager, scout, leader, deluxe - ish.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  5. SMOG

    SMOG Vocab-champion ArgueTitan

    Joined:
    May 13, 2006
    Posts:
    18,728
    Trophy Points:
    332
    Location:
    Robot Narnia, Quebec
    Likes:
    +1,635
    No problem. You don't sound rude.

    Kids do tend to have different standards than adults, though that may be a distortion and a generalization. There is a range. With few exceptions, we might argue that almost ALL Transformers are "made for kids," and adults have no place in the fandom at all. I mean, depending on how much stock we're trying to put into the printed age-ranges. Just as some kids just like to bang toys together like rocks, not every adult values articulation in an action figure. There was a whole generation of geeks collecting McFarlane toys, and those generally eschewed anything approaching "play value" as a badge of their "mature collector" target market.

    I can't comment really on kids "not playing" as much as we did. Obviously, all that digital media has to take up time, but I have to question some of those broad generalities. Hasbro clearly knows that adults buy a LOT of their products now. And no matter what your target market is, I think that making a "good toy" relative to the genre and the price range should always be the ideal. They A key facet of action figures is dynamic articulation. Cutting back in the case of these toys feels... cheap... a concession to putting a mediocre product on the shelf just for the sake of having a product on the shelf. Which of course is the case. But it doesn't mean we can't disapprove and call out this practice as... sub-optimal?

    What I find most glaring here is the tendency for fans to try to shut down other fans and say "hey, you're not allowed to voice an opinion on this because it's 'not for you'." Who are these people white-knighting for? What do they gain by "setting people straight"?

    Fuck that. I decide what toys are "for me." And I get to decide whether I think a toy is a good product or a bad one. You can disagree if you like, but trying to shame or silence people for expressing those points - especially here, in a forum that is predominantly a forum for adult collector opinion - is just plain asinine.

    zmog
     
    • Like Like x 4
  6. Shepard Prime

    Shepard Prime autobot

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2011
    Posts:
    2,072
    Trophy Points:
    222
    Likes:
    +1,208
    Yeah, but SMOG, here's the thing. Why do you say that like no one else here speaking has been/remembers being a kid, knows kids and plays with/has kids? I have kids (three in fact) and all three approach TFs differently and which ones they like or don't like. And they like playing with the shampoo Optimus just as much as they like my TR Fort Max. I'm 43 and at heart, I'm just a big kid so *for me* the fun factor plays into it as much (if not so much more) than the collector-display side of buying Transformers.

    Why is voicing displeasure at negativity considered "white-knighting/setting people straight/silencing you"? I know I'm not the only one who thinks this but I don't want to speak for others. But it's like a chore to go through any new thread these days because it takes all of about three posts (occasionally less) for someone to start in and just be overly and vocally negative. Like, people really go in on a toy so hard that it passes the point of constructive criticism, which is what (imo) forum members are responding to.

    Like many say, me included, it's not the criticizing of any particular toy or TFs comic that we have an issue with, it's the close to morose negativity that just sucks the fun out of any new TFs product. And since any defense of said TF product is met with stuff like this

    it just guarantees any thread to deadlock into what we have in this very thread, those that want to enjoy or try to see some of the positives in a figure (or not) and those hellbent on bringing down everybody's joy level to where they're at.

    This is exactly what I'm talking about. Who is shaming you? You don't like it, you don't like it but no one's shaming you. Further, no one's telling you what to decide what to like/buy and what not to.

    This is honestly news to me that the forum is pre-dominantly a TF forum for the adult collector though. If that's truly the case, maybe this isn't the place for me either. Because TFs goes beyond being an "adult collector" for me so if that's the core of the site, I can just go hang out at a few of the other sites that have a far better balance about this.

    One thing to think about however. If you're right and the forum is composed almost entirely of adult collectors, then you, being the majority, aren't the ones being shamed I'd think. You're the majority, in which case, that means that you're enforcing your own personal view upon others and telling THEM to shut up and quit being so optimistic about these toys I don't like. Right?
     
    • Like Like x 1
  7. samisham

    samisham Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2017
    Posts:
    1,364
    Trophy Points:
    177
    Likes:
    +1,796
    I'm gonna number these so I don't have to quote each paragraph individually.

    1. I agree completely, but corporations like Hasbro rely on something of a one size fits all minimum risk, maximum gains mentality. As such, they need to design these for the kiddy lines for the kids who primarily do bash their toys together, I'd see these are aimed 3-6 roughly and there is a tendency among that age range to smash 'em together, thus the lack of complexity and cutesy style, alongside whatever Hasbro's focus testers told 'em to make.

    2. The thing is that the Hasbro suits don't really see it that way, the way they see t is to keep it simple and fun for little kids to keep their attention and have low parts counts so as to make breakages minimal while still keep plastic production price efficient, plus h=they're kind of banking on kids moving up to Generations next as they get older and their interests change, because as much as adult collectors like to think we make up a sizeable chun of Hasbro's Tf income, it's probably closer to 10-20%. That's one of the reasons why there are only about four MP releases a year vs about ten times that in Generations.

    3. It's not so much "you're not allowed to" as much as it is "why do you care? it's not aimed at you, and all of us had some things that we liked as kids that were secretly crap and we turned out okay" I reference again Armada Hot Shot and the Energon dub, I would even argue the G1 cartoon, but that's a can of worms I really wanna open right now. Yeah, that Bumblebee looks bad to us, but are we really able to look at it through the lens of contemporary children raised in the age of tablets, smartphones and Rescue Bots?

    4. Same, that's one of the many reasons I don't pay the 3p market much mind because they're aimed at people with careers something I'm still too young to fully cultivate and I see them as overly extravagant and not giving hell of a lot more for their asking prices, but I also don't go into 3p threads and tear into them, because in a way i don't really consider it fair. A similar opinion to what I have here.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  8. Shin Densetsu

    Shin Densetsu I WILL DESTROY YOU Super Mod

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2003
    Posts:
    23,758
    News Credits:
    15
    Trophy Points:
    407
    Likes:
    +7,119
    As fans we have grown older and we want to see things progress. For someone like me that was hard given that one of my first transformers was Jetfire. Honestly even now, the only things missing from it that would make it "modernized" are universal hip joints and maybe thigh swivels. Point is, a figure like that is an incredibly hard act to follow. To me, gems that stand like that are G2 laser Prime, beast wars ultra Optimus Primal and a few more.

    However since the 80's, Hasbro at one point in the 90's started going towards less innovation and more about bleeding out profit using less resources. A GI Joe mentioned that this happened shortly before he left in the 90's. We probably didn't notice it during the end of G2 or Beast Wars. However this trend started to become more pronounced and obvious by 2011.

    Sure, as times change, toys change. With the technology and improvements available, ideally yes, the mainline Transformers of today should outright render G1 toys irrelevant, the stock of stores like thrift stores and nothing more.

    However, yes, Hasbro has gotten cheaper. Not a secret but again, more pronounced starting in 2011. In addition, mass market retailers evidently like the cheap stuff. Plus kids have more things to be interested in. Back in the day I had a nintendo. These days a kid could be carrying around a 3DS in his pocket with 10 times the library I had for my Nintendo back in the day. Or have a mobile phone/tablet with free games. Or a PS4.

    There are simply more items for a kid to play with these days that aren't just toys. Back then you could pick between NES and maybe megadrive or Turbografx 16. These days... take your pick. Hell again... freaking phone...you can game on YOUR PHONE. If you have a computer your most bad ass game isn't Oregon Trail, no, now you can play with much more games and don't even have to go to your friend's house to do multiplayer. Kids these days are used to wireless controllers but for me, it was all wires back then. Good luck if your friends were dicks and yanked on the controller a lot to the point that your console would fall over and get damaged.

    In addition, Hasbro in the 80's had clout with retailers. They could convince them to sell a giant scorpion robot that turned into a base and an autobot that turned into a city. Since the 90's there's been a role reversal where someone like Walmart doesn't care about how your new toyline is Transformers Generation 4 and not your father's transformer but what a transformer would look like had your father stuck with it for over 3 decades. No, some of the stuff we view as garbage is like gold to retailers.

    Want to see more of the downward trend? Cyberverse Commanders straight up died with Beast Hunters and didn't make it back for either TF4 nor TLK. I don't know about you guys but I wanted a cyber commander Knight Prime to ride on AOE Grimlock. Instead I used T30 Legends Prime...which isn't a movie figure.

    Legend figures came back for 2015 RID but they are very unappealing to me and the price went up! Inflation is a very really thing too.

    This isn't to excuse how 2018 Cyberverse toys look nor being apologist about it. The reasons laid out above are the constraints/limitations Hasbro works under. They aren't perfect and the retailers certainly aren't either.

    It is also a very, very different time than the one most of us grew up with. Most of us aren't kids anymore. Would I have collected transformed into adulthood had I been introduced to a mobile phone or PS4 by the time I was 8? I don't even say probably not because in truth, I really don't know.

    I miss the days I could walk into a store and could see a giant 7ft long aircraft carrier toy for $99 on shelves and a decepticon dinosaur that turned into a city and came with some car as well as...just seeing a ton of Transformers onshelf.. or rather a ton of toys in general! However this isn't the 80's anymore.

    Hopefully(since I like cyberverse designs) I will see fully articulated cyberverse toys eventually. Most of the current line does not appeal to me. I don't know if it will appeal to kids. I'm not a kid anymore and as a kid, my childhood was certainly not within this past decade.

    Better toys would obviously sell better with us, but most of us aren't kids anymore. There's more kids than us out there.
     
    • Like Like x 7
  9. SMOG

    SMOG Vocab-champion ArgueTitan

    Joined:
    May 13, 2006
    Posts:
    18,728
    Trophy Points:
    332
    Location:
    Robot Narnia, Quebec
    Likes:
    +1,635
    Well, there's an easy answer to your question: I didn't say that. In fact, just above, I said that kids and adults have a range of preferences, and that you can't generalize simplistically by age. But people who make global statements about "kids don't care about this/that" in order to justify weaker toy designs on the behalf of Hasbro and children everywhere, are definitively wrong when they make such claims.

    I'm not sure what dichotomy you're drawing here. I'm the same age as you, and it's very much about the "fun factor" for me. I'm neither a careful collector, nor a big "display" TF fan. For me, it's all about how much fun the toys are when you've got them in-hand. Knees and elbows help with that. :D 

    Here, I'll try to explain it for you (also, I'm going to use the word "you" in relation to the general perspective you're coming from, but I'm not directing this squarely at you, just to be clear.)

    It is our god-given right and our privilege to gush or bitch about Tranformers toys here. This is a fan forum. Fandoms, by definition, take unimportant things too seriously. That's what this place is for. Hasbro doesn't need anybody to defend their honour. Hasbro doesn't have feelings. The toys aren't going to be offended if we criticize them.

    As soon as fans start telling other fans what opinions they can and can't have about toys, that becomes something else. Then it becomes fan-on-fan violence. It becomes social control. It's not cool. There is a clear-cut hierarchy here for that reason. We can be as savage as we want to the Hasbro corporation, and to unfeeling hunks of plastic. But we should be excellent to each other, right?

    Criticism is not necessarily unhealthy... sometimes it's a gut response, sometimes it's an expression of critical thinking, sometimes it's a way of pushing for something better, and sometimes it's just collective therapy by way of taking the piss out of something.

    Either way, public sharing of these opinions allows fans commiserate on these things... again, because that's why we're here. If it's a "chore" to sift through a comments section full of different opinions... then geeeez, that's rough, but you really have to tough it out. It's the internet. It's the free world, even. Try to get used to it, and stop hating on others just because they hate on a product. There's no way that should "suck the fun out of it" for you. There is no way that someone disliking a toy on the internet should have that kind of power over you. It's not personal, and you shouldn't be so sensitive.

    The very nature of a "forum" means that you're going to get a broad sampling of different reactions and thoughts, and they won't all agree. You don't get to screen the community for opinions or voices you don't like. You just browse past them. Or use the Ignore function if you really need to. "Negativity" is not something you get to police... especially not by throwing down more negativity, criticism, or attitude. It doesn't work. It doesn't help. And most of all, you don't get to choose whether someone gets to share an opinion on whether they dislike a toy.

    Shaming me? Impossible, I'm shameless. But I am referring to the general tactic that emerges in cases like this. Phrasings like "These toys aren't for you! You're an entitled man-child! Don't you understand economics! Your negativity ruins everything for everybody!" etc... those very much are throwing shade and shame at other people, in an effort to shut them down/shut them up. And that's a problem.

    Hold on here... do you honestly believe that the great majority of posters here on this forum are kids who fit within the age demographics printed on TF boxes? Because if you're old enough to drive and you're collecting Transformers, you're functionally an adult collector (or "adult fan" if you prefer). :lol 

    Are you maybe being a bit disingenuous? I'm going to go out on a limb and say that 90% of us in this thread (and just about EVERY thread) on this site (and most TF sites) are "adults." I'm pretty sure this isn't a shock to you.

    First off, you're making an assumption that so-called "adult collectors" are all critical about the same things, and making a corresponding assumption that kids are -not- critical about toys, and then contorting that into a majority bullying scenario. I think that's a hard claim for you to make.

    Secondly, it really seems like you're trying to flip this around and turn it into an "aha!" moment. And to do this, you seem to be suggesting that if a 'majority' of people are expressing their disappointment with a toy, this constitutes "enforcing their personal views" on a minority? So, just being -exposed- to views that are different than yours is some kind of oppression? Is that really the case you want to make here?

    As discussed above, the substantive difference here is that nobody is telling people who like these toys to "shut up already" because their "unrelenting sheep-like gormless positivity" is really making it hard for me to read this forum and ruining my ability to enjoy Transformers. Nobody is singling them out and telling them that they're -wrong- to be happily ambivalent about these toys.

    However, when someone says "hey, these toys could/should be better" they ARE being met with a chorus of people telling them that "These toys aren't for you! Don't you know that Hasbro is all-knowing and bled for you and owes you nothing! Kids don't care about toy design anyway, so your complaints are irrelevant! Your negativity is ruining my childhood so shut up!"

    Think about it. I'm criticizing a toy for being a weak toy. You're telling other people to be silent because you can't handle the negativity. Who's really going too far here?

    zmog

    Officially, these toys are aimed at ages 6+. I think we're getting a little bit past the primitive "bashing" play-style at that point. Also, your description of the Hasbro mentality above is sort of the definition of the "lowest common denominator" isn't it? I think it's fair to say "hey, Hasbro... even for ages 6+... you can do better... I'd LIKE you to do better" ...isn't it?

    I do question that statistic (which is rather old now, no?) if for no other reason than my own anecdotal experience, and the fact that I'm unclear how they arrive at those stats. Considering the relative toy budgets, and ongoing purchase lifespan of most 'adult collectors' it seems like every collector must be worth dozens of kiddies in terms of Hasbro's bottom line. I think the heavy weighting of content towards Movie and G1-nostalgic materials also suggests a much stronger effort to court adult fans as well... perhaps for all the reasons people have stated here about how "childhood play has changed."

    But that's really neither here nor there. I understand the corporate mentality and logics behind why Hasbro puts out weak product. As I already explained, that's not something consumers need to sympathize with. We are customers. We are out for ourselves. We don't have to factor Hasbro's bottom line and profit margin into how we feel one way or another about a toy. Do WE think it's a good product? Is it worth its price point? Does it hit the sweet spot? No? Well, that's our prerogative.

    This is an odd question. Well, at the risk of repeating myself, I KNOW why I care. I could say, because I'm a long-time Transformers fan and toy collector, who has an ongoing interest in the product line and characters (especially those which are clearly G1-styled) and even my pretty modest yearly TF budget is probably beyond the wildest fantasies of my childhood self. And also, because I decide whether it's "for me." And I'll make a point of drawing the line between what makes this toy a "buy/not buy" because that IS something that Hasbro should be thinking of. Because a sale is a sale is a sale.

    But, let me go one better on this one; I know why I care... but why do YOU care?

    I don't know why it's someone else's business. Is it their place to ask me why I care, or to tell me I shouldn't? Why would it offend or incite you or anyone if I have a strong opinion one way or the other about this product? I might make a statement that serves as a tacit corrective for the toy... but the backlash here is you (or others) attempting to issue a corrective to me about my personal feelings on the product. That's a bit weird, no?

    Considering that we have also seen the rise of tablets, smartphones, and Rescue Bots, we do have some insight into that, I would argue. Not only that, we also have some INPUT into it, seeing as how we are also the aunts/uncles, parents, or even grandparents who put toys into children's hands, who watch TV shows with them, who share stuff we loved (and still love) with them.

    But either way, this argument is a bit of a non-starter, because if the mind of a child is seemingly unknowable for adults such as us, is it fruitful to argue the opposing view? We've established that Hasbro is just trying to make a quick buck as cheaply as possible. But can we all state that kids aged 6+ don't care about better toys? I don't think we can.

    Well, if it makes you feel any better, if you went into a 3P toy thread, looked at the toy on display, and said "I think this is a pretty shabby toy for the price tag they're asking," I would be right there defending your right to express that opinion, without telling you to "get a real job or get out" or whatever. :wink: 

    zmog
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 15, 2018
    • Like Like x 1
  10. Philip164

    Philip164 Board Member

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2010
    Posts:
    2,313
    News Credits:
    3
    Trophy Points:
    222
    Likes:
    +295
    Looking at the Picture of Optimus, I wonder where the Matrix Blast button is, and I wonder if he will have shoulder articulation?
     
  11. W-P38

    W-P38 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2007
    Posts:
    351
    News Credits:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    157
    Likes:
    +237
    To be clear, Studio Series (though a continuation of the engineering that began with TLK Premium Edition) is Generations.

    So is Mega Action Series, and Cyber Battalion for that matter.

    Current Generations lines:

    -Studio Series
    -Prime Wars Trilogy
    -Mega Action Series
    -Cyber Battalion
     
  12. Philip164

    Philip164 Board Member

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2010
    Posts:
    2,313
    News Credits:
    3
    Trophy Points:
    222
    Likes:
    +295
    The Studio Series is Generations? ... Looks at Starscream's Box, I didn't notice the logo before. I wonder if this is why PoTP's kinda stopped.

    What is the Mega Action Series?
     
  13. Bass X0

    Bass X0 Captain Commando

    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2003
    Posts:
    10,398
    News Credits:
    38
    Trophy Points:
    312
    Location:
    England
    Likes:
    +2,756
    I think the modern way of thinking is "no toy is bad, every toy is good - if you personally don't like a toy then its for fans for a younger age just as valid an audience as you are; and if you continue to criticise a toy for whatever reason then your opinions are outdated or childish and you need to grow up".

    Is that about right?
     
    • Like Like x 1
  14. Shin Densetsu

    Shin Densetsu I WILL DESTROY YOU Super Mod

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2003
    Posts:
    23,758
    News Credits:
    15
    Trophy Points:
    407
    Likes:
    +7,119
    Not mine.

    Mine is:

    Times have changed, kids now grow up in a different time than we did with access with much more electronic devices, meanwhile toy companies operate with reduced budget/research & development time, target a demographic which may not care as much to play with a toy as much as I did in the 80's, inflation and labor costs at overseas factories have gone up and veteran designers left.

    Couple all those factors together and a mainline Transformer today is much different than one 10 years ago.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  15. Shin Densetsu

    Shin Densetsu I WILL DESTROY YOU Super Mod

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2003
    Posts:
    23,758
    News Credits:
    15
    Trophy Points:
    407
    Likes:
    +7,119
    Thread cleaned. You don't have to like these toys but there's no need to turn this into a constant "old toys are better these toys suck!" thread.
     
    • Like Like x 4
  16. W-P38

    W-P38 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2007
    Posts:
    351
    News Credits:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    157
    Likes:
    +237
    It is. But Generations now has sub-lines, so G1 and so on will continue via what follows POTP, namely the new War for Cybertron (what exactly that will be is yet to be determined), and studio series will continue as a movie collector line. The confusion will reinvigorate once the current movie figures (Bumblebee Movie) get subsumed by SS, also. Then again, current video game tie-ins were also released through Generations (WfC, FoC).

    Mega Action Series (MAS) are 18" (so roughly Titan Class), high end, non transforming action figures. So far we have Optimus Prime, a Nemesis redeco, and, after many delays, MAS-02 Megatron is now being shipped to online retailers.

    They're around $200 each. But in my opinion, absolutely amazing.
     

Share This Page