Cybertron - The Planet, not the Series

Discussion in 'Transformers General Discussion' started by WhiteMocha, Nov 28, 2006.

  1. WhiteMocha

    WhiteMocha TFW2005 Supporter

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2006
    Posts:
    7,656
    Trophy Points:
    272
    Location:
    San Francisco
    Likes:
    +44
    Never having watched any of the post-G1 shows (aside from a smattering of RID) or read any of the comics, I'm just curious about the planetary science behind ol' Cybertron...

    Does it orbit a star (or some other big gravitational mass) or is it just a free-floating asteroid? That seems odd, since it has (well, had) moons.

    How far away from Earth is it supposed to be?

    Is it supposed to be about Earth-size, or considerably smaller?

    When did the idea appear that it is the alt mode of Primus? Is that a pretty recent addition to the mythos, or has it been around for a while?

    If this has already been done to death in the past feel free to close this thread. Just a bored afternoon question from a TF newbie. :) 
     
  2. Cobalt Agent

    Cobalt Agent My dick kills dinosaurs

    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2005
    Posts:
    3,669
    Trophy Points:
    207
    Likes:
    +10
    In the comics, it was around the Alpha Centauri system but got knocked loose from orbit.

    If Alpha Centauri is any indication, it should be around 4 light years away. This is odd to me. If the space bridge moves as fast as light, then travel between planets should take years, right? Then again, I don't know if the space bridge was in the comic, so that might be irrelevant.

    In the cartoon it isn't really addrressed, though it does get brought into our system a couple times, both of which times were going to destroy Earth.

    In the comics it was said to be "Saturn-sized." However it was only about the size of New Mexico in the cartoon.

    if I remember correctly, Don designed the first Primus that was actually Cybertron transformed as a robot.
     
  3. Grimlock_13

    Grimlock_13 Reformed Geewunner

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2002
    Posts:
    23,600
    News Credits:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    327
    Location:
    Boise, ID
    Likes:
    +83
    Also, in the Marvel Comics, Primus was Cybertron (he was a god that trapped himself in a barren asteroid, thus becoming Cybertron...that also explained Unicron's origin) but he never transformed into a giant robot or anything...he his consiousness was in the center of the planet
     
  4. Turnip

    Turnip Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2004
    Posts:
    482
    News Credits:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    126
    Likes:
    +2
    One thing I've always wondered, are all the Cybertronians spilt up among the factions? Are there "non-coms" and civilians? In the DW Armada/Energon series it seemed like the Autobots were simply the police and the Decepticons a roving band of criminals.
     
  5. Cobalt Agent

    Cobalt Agent My dick kills dinosaurs

    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2005
    Posts:
    3,669
    Trophy Points:
    207
    Likes:
    +10
    Well, in the comic, I believe the closest things we got to civilians were called Empties, which lived in ghettos.
     
  6. $5HotRod

    $5HotRod Trailbreaker Fan

    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2006
    Posts:
    1,401
    Trophy Points:
    161
    Likes:
    +1
    Ebay:
    In the DW WWI series, they did make mention of neutrals protesting the war just before Thundercracker and Skywarp pretty much flattened them. If there are still neutrals during the 1984 period and beyond...I don't know, except with the possibility of Empties as Cobalt Agent said.
     
  7. WhiteMocha

    WhiteMocha TFW2005 Supporter

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2006
    Posts:
    7,656
    Trophy Points:
    272
    Location:
    San Francisco
    Likes:
    +44
    Thanks for the info, fellas! I am now a very slightly more educated Transfan. :) 
     
  8. Ziero

    Ziero TFW2005 Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2006
    Posts:
    4,790
    Trophy Points:
    181
    Likes:
    +0
    I thought I read somewhere that who ever created the original Transformers did so for two purposes. One group was made for peace and civilian duties such and another group was built for war and battle, but over time they became independent entities and not just tools leading to the creation of the Auto-Bots and Decepticons. To me this would make sense as most Auto-bots are non-military things and most decepticons have militiristic alt modes, though I don't know if it's an official concept or some fan-made theory.
     
  9. Altercron

    Altercron Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2004
    Posts:
    6,014
    Trophy Points:
    231
    Likes:
    +0
    Thats the cartoon universe. The Quintessons were the ones to originally create the TFs according to the toon.
     
  10. Sol Fury

    Sol Fury The British Butcher Administrator News Staff

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2002
    Posts:
    35,576
    News Credits:
    4
    Trophy Points:
    317
    Likes:
    +34
    Facebook:
    Instagram:
    In a story penned for the 1990 UK Marvel Annuals, Simon Furman wrote a story, the Magnificent Six, which had Jazz, Inferno, Wheeljack, Sunstreaker, Prowl and Stampede (new guy - he died later in the story) flashing back to a mission gone horribly wrong where they'd been dispatched to defend a colony of "neutralists" from a Decepticon general named Megadeath. In the context of that story Simon made it pretty clear that there were neutral, non-combatant forces, but one way or the other they were pushed into the war.
    The shows don't give that impression much, though. Even when you get a pacifist like Sandstorm or Tigertron, they're treated as rarities among the Cybetronians.
     
  11. Mad Dawg

    Mad Dawg Autobot Brewmeister

    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2002
    Posts:
    167
    Trophy Points:
    91
    Likes:
    +0
    Maybe it's been too long since I've watched G1, but in the cartoon it seems there were plenty of TF's living back on Cybertron that, I got the impression, were either Decepticons, masses willing to live under Decepticon rule or undercover/guerilla forces either allied to the Autobots (the enemy of my enemy is my friend) or Autobots themselves.

    Anyway, it's a cartoon and a toyline primarily meant for kids. I don't think that in 1984 anyone had a clue we would still be talking about it 20+ years later when we're all grown up and have sophisticated opinions regarding, and some of us first hand knowledge of war, politics, etc. It was easier to just have Autobots and Decepticons.

    As far as things like distance from Earth, size of the planet and the true composition of Primus' being... I like the idea of Cybertron being Primus' alt mode because it brings balance to the Unicron equation (and no one I know is willing to argue with Unicron's alt mode being a planet). I like the idea of Cybertron being about the size of Earth, perhaps even a little smaller (more believable as the gravitational consequences of a world with the density of a terrestrial planet and the size of a jovian planet would be dire). Finally, I don't think Cybertron should be affiliated with any specific solar system. If Unicron can drift around the creating chaos, why not Primus (the drifting part, not the chaos)? And if Primus is indeed trying to keep Unicron from finding him then it's best to not only pick a universe at random out of all the universes in the multiverse, but to also stay on the move. Plus, in the cartoon at least, it always looked like night time on Cybertron. If they orbit a star, it's either a white dwarf or they are seriously far away from it.

    Just my opinions. I think that, as with religion, you will find each Transformer fan has his own mythologies regarding the Transformers universe. We add to, we subtract from, we modify... But at the end of the day we all base our beliefs on the same basic concepts.
     
  12. Bryan

    Bryan ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2005
    Posts:
    9,020
    Trophy Points:
    211
    Likes:
    +0
    QFT. No way around this when you've got a property that the fans take more seriously than the creators.

    I agree with most of youre points, but like to think of Cybertron as much, much bigger than Earth. Not necessarily gas-giant size (like you pointed out, the gravity makes that unworkable), but somewhere in between. What increase in gravity there would be is offset by the fact that most of Cybertron is a honeycomb structure, thus reducing mass, and that Transformers would be strong enough to deal with a certain amount of greater-than-Earth-normal gravity.

    Drifting in space just made sense to me, for the same reasons you cite. Someone pointed out once that it would eventually hit a star or planet, but I figure that's an infintesmal possibility that would be eliminated by the fact that Primus guides the planet.

    The moons could have been 'picked up' by the planet in its travels, or alternatively, built by one side or the other in the distant past, maybe even created by Primus (to serve as an early warning system for Unicron?).

    Forget the issue, but think it was titled Primal Scream where Primus was first introduced period, and as the 'center' of Cybertron. I never figured he could transform, and I preferred the idea of Unicron's essence in his one body, while Primus subdivided it among his many children, but Hasbro must have lost my phone number 'cause they never called to ask my opinion. Besides, he looked cool in Galaxy Force.
     
  13. Omnius

    Omnius Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 14, 2006
    Posts:
    11,890
    News Credits:
    8
    Trophy Points:
    256
    Likes:
    +8
    The way I see it, Cybertron isn't in any particular star system - because of the way it formed in the comics (Primus and 'space junk'), it's not a conventional planet formed of gases orbiting a sun. Chances are it justs sits in deep space, far from any systems. It's worth noting that (to the best of my knowledge!) Cybertron is always depicted as a world of eternal night.

    Oh, and in the comics, the space bridge allowed instantaneous travel between Cybertron and Earth. It was never explained how but I would assume something like a wormhole.

    As for Cybertron's size, well this is harder to pin down - there is no definitive answer and Unicron can't be taken as any useful indicator as his own size seems to change in relation to Cybertron in the movie and G1 third season!
     
  14. Chris McFeely

    Chris McFeely Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2004
    Posts:
    4,480
    News Credits:
    22
    Trophy Points:
    222
    Likes:
    +52
    I'll be repeating a bit of what'd been said, but hey, I'm in a sort of informational mindset today...

    In the comics, Cybertron formerly orbited Alpha Centauri, but was, and I quote, shaken from its orbit by the ferocity of the conflict. Which is, uh, suspect, at best. The cartoon never showed it to orbit a star, and, indeed, implied that it might be mobile - in "Roll For It," the planet is shown to exist outside of the Milky Way galaxy, but the flashback in "Fire in the Sky" shows that Starscream and Skyfire could fly from Cybertron to Earth under their own power with ease, perhaps suggesting that the mobile world could have been passing through the Sol system at the time.

    By the time of Beast Wars, the planet had settled into orbit around a sun.

    As a rogue planet, it varies. The comic never really pinned it down, but the cartoon had it being moved around a lot. As I said, by 1984, it was located outside of the Milky Way galaxy, but the giant space bridge created in "The Ultimate Doom" transported it into the Sol system. It was blasted out of Earth orbit and set a-travelling at the end of that story, but it seemed much closer from then on, as the Autobots could access it using conventional transport (ie: Omega Supreme), without having to hijack the space bridge to get there. By 2005, it had definitely moved out of the Sol system (planets like Junkion and Quintesson existed between Cybertron and Earth), but just how far away it got is unclear - Galvatron later brought it back to Earth orbit in "The Rebirth."

    The Dreamwave comics, incidentally, never had the planet leave the orbit of Alpha Centauri.

    In the first issue of the Marvel comic, it was established as "Saturn-sized." That's a bit... iffy, and Marvel never used that classification again, although Dreamwave later did. In the cartoon, it seemed closer to the size of Earth's moon.

    A little from both. The Marvel Comics established that Cybertron is the body of Primus, who had trapped his psychic essence within a barren asteroid that he later shaped into the planet. He did so as part of a trap to do the same to Unicron, but Unicron shaped his asteroid into a transforming planet, so the idea of Cybertron transforming is one that has been in the fans' minds for a long while.

    Artist Don Figueroa produced a sketch of a transformed Cybertron/robot-mode Primus during his work on the Dreamwave "War Within" series, but it was not used in the comic itself. The artwork was used, however, in Dorling Kindersly's "Transformers: The Ultimate Guide," which was where the current iteration of the malleable Primus/Unicron myth was related, and established that Primus *could* transform into a robot mode, but had never done so, preferring to remain in planet mode and connected to the universe on a planetary level. The Cybertron series and toyline finally took it all the way.

    Coincidentally, Cybertron transforming into a giant robot was a central plot point in Flint Dille's rejected "Transformers: The Movie" screenplay, entitled "The Secret of Cybertron."
     
  15. WhiteMocha

    WhiteMocha TFW2005 Supporter

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2006
    Posts:
    7,656
    Trophy Points:
    272
    Location:
    San Francisco
    Likes:
    +44
    Wow, thanks for the very thorough response, Chris! That quite nicely answers all my questions.... as much as they can be answered, I suppose, by the inconsistent Transformers mythos. :) 

    Thanks for taking the time to convey all that info! And thanks to everyone else for adding other questions I hadn't thought of asking.... like about neutral factions on Cybertron.
     

Share This Page