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TIA | Safety Standards

This is why Warpath had a big ass missile and Fort Max will never be rereleased in the United States.

So to the original question, No Hasbro could not put out Herc as it is currently designed for $30. It does not pass the requirements they design to, and it does not fit their business model ( It is a "collectable" not a "Toy").

Now would it be possible for Hasbro to design something like Herc. Well yeah, I refuse to believe that they do not have or could not hire enough engineering talent to design something that what amounts to a fan club could design.

But how much would it cost? They cannot sell it as a toy so they are looking at a much much smaller market, with the smaller runs that entails you are looking at a much higher price point per figure, most likely in the $50 to $70 range which is about what Herc costs per bot anyway.

They could make a dumbed down/safer version, so that little Timmy does not gash/choke/put his eye out. We have seen it in FOC Brutics.

So no on pretty much all counts Hasbro could not release Herc for 30 a bot. To be honest they have no reason to, I would bet that the entire amount of money made by TFC on Hercules is less the the take home of the top grossesing Hasbro exec.


Edit: Forgot 3. Seriously? If you have not seen people complaining about higher prices and smaller deluxes then you have not been on the same web board that I have.

 

Because Transformers isn't huge business in Japan, so Takara typically piggybacks on Hasbro's financial backing for the majority of their releases.

Combiners represent quite a significant time and financial investment in terms of development, that generally could be better spent elsewhere.

 

I believe you are a little off on that Herc bot cost. Or else feel welcome to point me to this store you used.

 

YaHobby.com - The Online Hobbies Store for Transformers Toys, Model Kits, Cosplay Costumes & more

Got it for $500(USD) shipping included, does a deal for the set. Which puts it at $75 a fig which I would consider to be in the 50 to 70-ish range.


Edit: Be prepared to wait though, it can take them a while to get stock/ship. Good comunication about that though.

 

But they do Masterpiece figs which aren't intended for our market so there's gotta be interest. And Herc, as brilliant as its design is, is relatively simplistic. If a bunch of hacks pulled it off, I don't know why Takara's designers couldn't...and I'm sure they design all kinds of concepts that don't go anywhere just for giggles, so I don't know that I buy that it's too difficult to pull off. But I know it's pointless to argue, not to mention I already have Herc so I don't much give a rip if they did it or not at this point...I'm just saying I think they could do it if they wanted to and it would probably be as successful as your average MP, if not more so.

 

Just to give an example, when I was a kid I had figures for superion, computron, defensor and devastator, but I was never able to get all the figures to form any of their combined forms. Of course I wanted them, but I did enjoy the individual figures that I had. It wasn't a requirement to my happiness to have them all. I think hasbro could totally do this and make the regular children (and parents) happy just owning individual bots, as well as collectors who need them all. Plus once hasbro has a mold it leads the way to more repaints to recoup their money and make profit.

 

I agree with you here somewhat, Takara could release something similar to Herc. The Japanese collectors market being a whole different beast then the American toy market, But not for 30 a pop. Look at the price of MP-10 for example. But I do not think Hasbro could.

Though I would not call the TFC guys hacks, I think they pulled off a pretty good design.

 

I'm confused about the whole "Herc's not safe" issue...I have dozens and dozens of Hasbro-released figures that have pieces smaller than what comes with Herc. Almost every single deluxe has a gun that's smaller than the Herc guns. Then there's the original Concept Camaro Bumblebee, whose shoulderpads are incredibly tiny & fall off just by looking at them...  

 

It is more then just chokeing there are many, many, many tests.

http://www.cpsc.gov/BUSINFO/adg.pdf

Here is the "AGE DETERMINATION GUIDELINES" note this is not the rules, just the guidelines the let you say for example 10 and up. It is 300+ pages.


Here is the explanation/index for the "ASTM F963 - 11 Standard Consumer Safety Specification for Toy Safety". Note; these are not acutally the rules.

So yes Herc would not pass as a "toy" though he would as a "Collectable".

Hasbro has to deal with a metric shit ton of restrictions, as opposed to 3rd parties who have to deal with pretty much fuck all.


Edit: If I had to pick one test for Herc to fail the Drop test is almost certain. Here is something from the wiki.

http://tfwiki.net/wiki/For_safety_reasons

 

Yeah, I have no idea what they'd charge, but surely less than Herc. Since they'll probably never do it, let's just say it would be free. Or for the sake of being realistic, somewhere in the range of MP-10.

And the TFC guys did an amazing job minus a couple joint design flaws and color choices...calling them hacks wasn't really meant as derogatory, but rather imply they're not professional toy designers ala HasTak engineers...they're presumably just doing this on the side for funzies.

 

I think Hasbro can release Herc and Swindle at retail prices. At the end of the day the engineering on these figures is not vert complex and I would assume costs go up as engineering and piece counts increase.

Don't look at FOC bruticus and think that is the best Habsro can do. Think of it as the worst hasbro can do because it is a market test figure.

 

I would agree.

I remember hearing that safety standards include requirements for parts either be too big to swallow, or small enough to pass through  eek , in order to not be considered a choking hazard.  

I guess as long as it doesn't get lodged in a throat, it passes?! Which sounds absolutey crazy to me!   Who the hell is testing that I wonder?  

 

I have to agree that the engineering itself isn't extremely impressive. It's decent, and its likable because FP is thoughtful and adheres much to classics. aka, they know what fans want.

I think Hasbro CAN produce them. (zomg world implode I agree with transbot!) But I believe at the same time it may not market to the kids well.

 

Meh Takara deluxes clock in at about $30 depending on the exchange rate. MP 10 was about $250-ish and I would bet that were more of those manfactured then complete Hercules sets, so price break there for less engeinering and tooling.

I would ballpark it at about 70-ish? Which is pretty much what TFC charges, so pretty much a wash, could have the Decepticon logos though so that is something.

I have to disagree with you guys.

Could they physically make the thing? Yes, of course.

Could they make and distribute the toy without making a "collector line" of some sort that they could not sell through the current channels they use? Could they achive a wide enough distrobution to lower the price per unit to $30?

This is the same company that did not realease the 1st ed. prime toys to american internet stores because it was not cost effective. I do not see them moving into what is frankly not a profitable enough market for them.

This is not a knock agaist hasbro, they do what they do and 3rd party does what they do. Two completely different business modles and target consumers.

 

My four-year-old son wants a Hercules of his own. He already told me that this is what he wants for Christmas or his birthday--my wife laughed out loud when he said it.


Kids will (do) go for things like this. Hercules has good coloring, lots of pieces that can be plugged here and there, makes clicking noises and has lots of moving parts. Its six different characters with three different modes each would keep kids busy for ages--it worked on us 30 years ago, I see no reason why it wouldn't do so again. Especially, when you consider that a brand that got our attention way back when is doing the same things (but better) three decades better.

Hasbro could add gimmicks like lights and sounds and Hercules would still be cool--there are members here already trying to figure out the best way to add LEDs to Hercule's head. If they could capture a voice and add a gimmick themselves to have Hercules speak, I'm sure they would've done it already 

 

Thankfully Hasbro doesn't need to remake Hercules because TFC nailed it first time out of the gate. Yes, even given the minor QC issues.

 

F'ed hip wasn't a minor issue:/ Also QC issue after QC issue isn't all that minor either; it shows that there is a problem that needs to be dealt with sooner rather than later.

I do, however, agree with your statement about TFC Toys nailing the figure right out the gate though. I do enjoy my Hercules 

 

There's a difference in investment/gains ratio there, though. A Combiner represents more time and money for the development (since you're designing 5-6 figures, not just one), but then they wouldn't be able to sell it at the same profit ratio as a single figure.

If you rapid-fire individual releases, then you risk straining your target market -- this is where you might say "But we did buy them individually, without being 'strained'", which is then where I point out the the typical production runs for a popular 3rd Party item might be around 2000 units, whereas a typical Takara Masterpiece probably exists in at least 10x that quantity. There's a much broader range of people being catered to with the MP releases. The only ones among us who bought Herc are the ones in pretty decent financial standing. A lot more of us, in comparison, have saved up to get themselves their favourite MP, afforded by the ability to have a year or so to save between releases.

If you go the box-set route, then your severely cap the upper limit that you can reasonably sell it for.

Ultimately, I'm saying that the financial returns for such a large-scale project are inherently worse than for the usual single-figure releases, so it'll be more likely ignored, since Takara's market share is rather tenuous. It's just far more of a gamble.


Also, I'd like to note that if Takara ever decided to go crazy one of these days, it wouldn't necessarily be any more affordable. The pricing of their collector-oriented lines tends toward the higher side nowadays, in response to their contemporaries. Remember the initial complaints when Masterpiece Grimlock cost more than MP-01?

You'd probably get a somewhat more refined figure for your $100, but it'd still cost $100, so it wouldn't make it any easier for you to obtain.

 

Did you haggle? I'm getting a $90 per piece price.

 

Which do you suppose required more R&D in its engineering, MP-05 or Herc? Herc is 6 bots, but they're all relatively simplistic...