Could a Shattered Glass cartoon work?

Discussion in 'Transformers General Discussion' started by Heliblade, Dec 3, 2017.

  1. Windsweeper II

    Windsweeper II The Pristine

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2015
    Posts:
    11,753
    News Credits:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    277
    Likes:
    +9,228
    I've read this before.
    But I don't know of any continuity where it is true.
    In general the Decepticons are always undermanned and have fewer big guys compared to the Autobots.
     
  2. Windsweeper II

    Windsweeper II The Pristine

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2015
    Posts:
    11,753
    News Credits:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    277
    Likes:
    +9,228
    That's just because the only reason the SG verse was created was so the creators could make the Autobots "edgy" :rolleyes: 
    If you read the stories it becomes obvious they never cared about doing anything with the SG Decepticons except Soundwave, Megatron and Starscream.
    The focus is always on making the Autobots look like edgy, "sexy" villains.
    Half of the SG Autobot toys have black decoes :rolleyes:  contrary to mainverse Decepticons who have much varied colourschemes.
    SG quickly turned into a fullfledged fanservice verse while it could have been much more interesting.
     
  3. SaberPrime

    SaberPrime The first Decepticon the Fallen Megatronus Prime

    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2010
    Posts:
    7,858
    Trophy Points:
    247
    Location:
    The State of insanity.
    Likes:
    +1,686
    If you only count named main characters this could be true of Beast Machines and Prime where the good guys actually outnumber the villains but you have to count drones as well. The Vehicons are a seemingly limitless army compared to the hand full of Maximals/Autobots fighting them. Granted they also seem to be really weak and easily defeated but the purpose of them is to create an illusion of a challenge by giving the bad guys much greater numbers.

    There are also occasions like Beast Wars where the teams are actually even on both sides. I mean it started four to six but Dinobot switched sides early on making it an even five to five. A lot of the series went on like that with one team being outnumbered for short periods but evening out again later.

    Also you missed part of that quote. Even when the Decepticons are outnumbered like in RID2 or Animated, they're made to be way more powerful than the Autobots. In Animated it takes all five Autobots just to take down a single Decepticon. In RID2 it's again typically five against one in most episodes.

    Animated is actually a good one to mention since they have their own SG counterparts. If the SG Autobots are anything like their main universe counterparts that would mean that again they're going to be weaker than SG Decepticons. How are they suppose to seem like a threat when it takes five of them to take down a single Decepticon. The main universe Decepticons are a threat because of how powerful they are compared to the weaker Autobots but to compensate for the difference SG Autobots have to seem much more threatening than main universe Decepticons. The only way to make a weaker Autobot seem like a threat is to make him way more sadistic than a main universe Decepticon.

    The SG Autobots are actually just as varried as main universe Decepticons. Both have a lot of black and purple characters. There are some exceptions on both sides as well.

    One SG Autobot I'm actually disapointed with is Jazz. Not because he's just a black and purple repaint but because it looks like they barely did anything to change him. He could easily be confused with MU Jazz because they're so similar. You kinda have to just look at the Purple Autobot insignia to really know he's the evil version. He's the most minor SG repaint I've ever seen did they even do anything to him other than changing his insignia? That's what I call boring. Megatron is also pretty boring because they changed his red to blue and there's so little color on him to begin with it took me a while to notice. The first thing that stuck out was the black helmet which was based on his Marvel comics coloring. I think Jazz was changed even less than that, I'm pretty sure the difference is in his racing stripes but that's such a small portion of his overall color scheme it doesn't really stand out that much.
     
    Last edited: Dec 14, 2017
  4. Windsweeper II

    Windsweeper II The Pristine

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2015
    Posts:
    11,753
    News Credits:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    277
    Likes:
    +9,228
    Well if you're going to count drones that's a bit unfair. But if so then yes, the Autobots are outnumbered in G1, BM, Energon and Prime.
    But even including drones the Decepticons are still vastly outnumbered in RID and to a lesser extent Armada and Cybertron I believe.
    They would certainly be outnumbered in Animated where the Autobots have the drones, and that would give you your edge for the SG Animated Autobots.
    RID2 is the one where the Autobots are most obviously outnumbered.
    But disregarding drones the Decepticons were vastly outnumbered in G1 and the Autobots had most of the big guys.

    Yeah, I even use my FOC Jazz as my SG version cause there is so little difference.
    I liked their choice of mold for Megatron but the colorscheme is largely the same.
    They either did similar scheme/different mold or different colors/similar mold.
    I preferred the first because it shook things up more. Like Galvatron being a helicopter or Octopunch being a hovercraft.
    I'm dissapointed they never did a Mindwipe from the ROTF mold.
    I use the Strafe redeco as an SG Mindwipe.
     
  5. ProtectronPrime

    ProtectronPrime Mopey Sea Urchin

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2016
    Posts:
    2,665
    Trophy Points:
    212
    Location:
    Las Vegas
    Likes:
    +5,027
    Ebay:
    Not to be nitpicky, but SG was originally created as an April Fools joke:

    [​IMG]

    That being said, SG was never meant to be serious based on my understanding, but was supposed to be a straight parody of how utterly ridiculous "negative universe" stories can be. Everything was supposed to be over the top stupid, which is why SG Straxus was a ridiculous bard, and SG Grimlock sounded like an upper class British twit.

    I suppose later on fans glommed onto it and tried to make it serious, because that's what we do as fans. However, I don't think SG was meant to be anything but straight up silly.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  6. Windsweeper II

    Windsweeper II The Pristine

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2015
    Posts:
    11,753
    News Credits:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    277
    Likes:
    +9,228
    Some stories where more comical in nature with faaar too much 80's navelstaring.
    Others were more serious with faaar too much evil Autobot navelstaring.
    It was most fun for me when they mixed things up more than when they went full mirror.
    Like I said above: I really like their SG Galvatron and Octopunch ideas, but SG Straxus and Optimus where really dissapointing to me.
    Why make him into another truck? Make him a train or a B52 or something.
    Obviously they were limited in the molds available and I don't remember what was available at the time, but that Universe Onslaught toy would have made a really cool SG Optimus toy.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  7. ProtectronPrime

    ProtectronPrime Mopey Sea Urchin

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2016
    Posts:
    2,665
    Trophy Points:
    212
    Location:
    Las Vegas
    Likes:
    +5,027
    Ebay:
    I'm not sure what you mean by "navelstaring". I'm familiar with the term - just not in the context you're using it. Regardless, the point I was trying to make is that SG was sort of a half-baked, silly idea that fans kind of ran with. If there are parts that are majorly undefined, nonsensical, confusing, or read like a stupid/bad fanfic, it's because people grabbed the idea and went nuts trying to develop it all over the place despite the fact that it was meant initially as a joke. :confused: 

    It'd be like me making a parody series called "Wombatformers" where everyone was the same, but turned into wombats, and then trying to develop it into a series. :rolleyes: 
     
  8. SaberPrime

    SaberPrime The first Decepticon the Fallen Megatronus Prime

    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2010
    Posts:
    7,858
    Trophy Points:
    247
    Location:
    The State of insanity.
    Likes:
    +1,686
    Animated Autobots don't have drones but they do outnumber the Decepticons because Animated takes place in a time where the war has ended and the Autobots won. The Decepticons in that series are nothing but a few survivors who were exiled from their home world which is why we never see any Decepticons at all on Cybertron and why the Elite Guard initially doesn't even believe Optimus' team when they report being attacked by the Decepticons.

    RID2 if you're looking at the cast list then yeah there are way more Decepticons than Autobots however they rarely ever fight more than one Decepticon at a time. The Cons aren't an organized military group in that series, they're a bunch of stragglers many of which aren't even aware Megatron disbanded the Decepticons. The few times that Bee's team is outnumbered he usually ends up getting help from the over powered Optimus Prime. The rest of the series it's typically five Autobots vs. One Decepticon. That series usually likes to make the Decepticons much larger and/or more powerful to compensate for their smaller numbers.

    In G1 the Decepticons had a lot of generic seekers and other such drones. Even only counting named characters the Decepticons actually outnumbered the Autobots. The Autobots had more mold variety. And as for having the bigger guys, the Autobots had way more Mini bots which were among the smallest next to the Cassettes. Plus there's the fact that G1 Decepticons were designed for War while the Autobots were mostly medics with O combat abilities. The Autobots were never meant to be soldiers, they had to adapt themselves for war. The Decepticons on the other had were originally built from the start to be combat ready, that was their entire purpose. So even if the Decepticons were outnumbered on occasion they were outnumbered by weaker Autobots.

    As for the whole color vs. mold thing. Based on Animated SG it was my understanding that the only reason the molds were different in the G1 SG universe is because Botcon exclusives always use current toy molds to recolor. Basically they tried to pick molds that were as close to G1 as they could get with the molds that were avalible at the time. The main universe counterparts also use those same molds recolored to look like G1 even though they clearly aren't G1 designs.

    I can't remember what it came with but I have a comic which includes the exact same story as the 86 movie except the characters were depicted using their classics toy designs that were avalible at the time. This means that Galvatron rather than being a space cannon transformed into an Earth tank with an inexplicable orange cannon that doesn't fit the astetic of the Earth based vehicle design.

    I personally like to image that all SG characters are just repaints not entirely different molds because if main universe characters can't even get the molds rights I see no reason why we have to accept different molds as canon in SG.

    That being said, the plot of Beast Machines makes it hard to imagine what a SG version would be like if they're limited to using the same molds. I mean there's a beast vs machine thing going on in Headmasters, BWII, and both RID cartoons, oh and season 3 of Prime to a small extent, but in none of those is that in any way important to the plot. They just happen to have a team of mostly beasts vs. a team of mostly vehicles but it isn't really brought up in story much if at all. Beast Machines however, the fact that the tech organic Maximals are fighting to restore Cybertron's organic core while the organic hating Megatron is trying to purge Cybertron of everything organic is a major part of the plot and I have no idea how to make the Maximals the villains and the Vehicons the heroes when swapping the goals kind of requires also making the Vehicons into beasts and the Maximals into vehicles.
     
    Last edited: Dec 14, 2017
  9. ProtectronPrime

    ProtectronPrime Mopey Sea Urchin

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2016
    Posts:
    2,665
    Trophy Points:
    212
    Location:
    Las Vegas
    Likes:
    +5,027
    Ebay:
    Is that true? I always was under the impression that there were more named Autobots than Decepticons. I know that early on, there were more Autobot toys than Decepticon toys, but that seemed to even out as time progressed. That being said, I'd love to actually see a headcount for each faction for G1, not counting the Japanese series.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  10. Windsweeper II

    Windsweeper II The Pristine

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2015
    Posts:
    11,753
    News Credits:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    277
    Likes:
    +9,228
    Well, I have my own use for just about every word. That's why you don't recognize the context.
    Anywaaay. Weren't most SG stories written by the same group of writers?
    It is, of course, half-baked fanfiction. But you make it seem like the guys that wrote the April fool story were more professional writers and the other stories were just some guys on a forum who made up some stories together and send them to fun pub.
    Your analogy is very apt though.
     
  11. Windsweeper II

    Windsweeper II The Pristine

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2015
    Posts:
    11,753
    News Credits:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    277
    Likes:
    +9,228
    Get on it Saber Prime. The burden of proof lies with you :p 
     
  12. ProtectronPrime

    ProtectronPrime Mopey Sea Urchin

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2016
    Posts:
    2,665
    Trophy Points:
    212
    Location:
    Las Vegas
    Likes:
    +5,027
    Ebay:
    I didn't mean to give the impression the original story was written by "more professional" writers. I believe all of them were written by people who, by definition, are professional writers. However, it was rarely the same set of folks and they were trying to be as campy as possible.

    Trent Troop and Greg Sepelak wrote the April Fools story.
    Forest Lee wrote Reunification.
    Benson Yee and Pete Sinclair, with Matt Frank wrote the BW:SG story.
    Jesse Wittenrich and Pete Sinclair wrote Another Light.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  13. Windsweeper II

    Windsweeper II The Pristine

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2015
    Posts:
    11,753
    News Credits:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    277
    Likes:
    +9,228
    Ugh, I hate to reply to different statements in a long post. No offence.
    animated Autobots had those Autotroopers. I don't know if they were drones and I don't know if they appeared in the cartoon, but I know they were a thing.
    The Autobots in RID2 are actually more outnumbered than I originally envisioned when I wrote my reply, because I forgot all the drones in the Decepticon Island arc. But you are right they mostly fought every Decepticon individually and the show did make the Decepticons bigger and stronger like in Animated.
    The Autobots in G1 had more minibots and they were generally not built for combat, but they also had more massive overpowered (I'm pretty sure a lot of us are using this word in the wrong context here) guys:
    Omega Supreme, Sky Lynx, Broadside, the Dinobots, even Brawn was stronger than the average bot or con.
    And the Decepticons were also mostly stronger in theory. Most of the time the Autobots just wiped the floor with them.
     
  14. ProtectronPrime

    ProtectronPrime Mopey Sea Urchin

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2016
    Posts:
    2,665
    Trophy Points:
    212
    Location:
    Las Vegas
    Likes:
    +5,027
    Ebay:
    The Autotroopers were not drones, but actual transformers who gave up their shells to adopt the uniform shell of a Cybertronian police officer.

    I don't know about RID2, because I really barely paid attention to that show, but even if you ignored the "drones", didn't multiple story arcs have the Autobots outnumbered with S1's Steljaw's Pack, the Space Pirates, and Starscream and his mercenaries?

    Finally, didn't Decepticons have more combiners than the Autobots? I think they had seven or eight to the Autobot's 3-4, which would balance out the "big guy" quotient a bit more.
     
  15. SaberPrime

    SaberPrime The first Decepticon the Fallen Megatronus Prime

    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2010
    Posts:
    7,858
    Trophy Points:
    247
    Location:
    The State of insanity.
    Likes:
    +1,686
    Why does G1 have to be the only Wiki page that doesn't have an easily accessible cast list. Every other cartoon series including the Japanese portions of G1 have cast lists right on the front page but the G1 cartoon for some reason doesn't. They do however have cast lists on an episode by episode basis which for this discussion is actually more accurate than staring at a cast list for the entire series. I think there are a few episodes where the Decepticons are outnumbered but there seems to be more Decepticons than Autobots most of the time.

    Auto troopers don't really count for anything if they never appear in the fiction... which they don't, they were never in the cartoon so they might as well not be a thing. They were toy only and I believe only avalible from conventions so they weren't even mass retail toy only characters.

    I think only really the Dinobots seemed overpowered and that's only because we see them taking down combiners and other transformers who are way bigger than them. Broadside honestly, even though I like his design as a character he never really left any impact on me. The only Autobot triple changer I actually remember in the cartoon is Springer. As for Omega Supreme, the Decepticons had big guys like him too... in fact Omega Sentinel his Decepticon repaint was in the cartoon as well and there were THREE of them, they were drones not an actual character but the Sentinels outnumbered Supreme who was the only Autobot with that body type. I'm not entirely sure Sentinels were actually meant to be Decepticons but they appeared as enemies so I'm assuming they were.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  16. Windsweeper II

    Windsweeper II The Pristine

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2015
    Posts:
    11,753
    News Credits:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    277
    Likes:
    +9,228
    So the Autotroopers were a lot like IDW's badgeless then.

    Decepticons had more combiners, but in the Sunbow cartoon it was Devastator vs Omega Supreme, Superion vs Menasor, Bruticus vs Defensor, Predaking vs Sky Lynx and Computron vs Abominus.
    So it evened out mostly, with Omega seeming a lot more powerfull than Devastator and Predaking proving too much for Sky Lynx when he couldn't force him to seperate.
    That still leaves the Autobots with Broadside who proved a match for Devastator and the Dinobots who wiped the floor with everyone who wasn't a combiner.
     
  17. Windsweeper II

    Windsweeper II The Pristine

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2015
    Posts:
    11,753
    News Credits:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    277
    Likes:
    +9,228
    Omega Sentinels where Quintesson drones who got reactivated in response to the Decepticon threat it seems, but by the time the Arc launched they had all been destroyed it seems.
     
  18. ProtectronPrime

    ProtectronPrime Mopey Sea Urchin

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2016
    Posts:
    2,665
    Trophy Points:
    212
    Location:
    Las Vegas
    Likes:
    +5,027
    Ebay:
    The Autotroopers show up in the show. Here they are:
    [​IMG]


    I think the Badgeless evolved a bit from the Autotrooper concept. No citation for that, so I could be 100% wrong. That being said, there was an inference that rather than being some kind of insidious secret police Autotroopers were proud to wear the shells and were considered a fixture of daily Autobot life.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  19. SaberPrime

    SaberPrime The first Decepticon the Fallen Megatronus Prime

    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2010
    Posts:
    7,858
    Trophy Points:
    247
    Location:
    The State of insanity.
    Likes:
    +1,686
    I don't remember that at all, what episode is that from?
     
  20. ProtectronPrime

    ProtectronPrime Mopey Sea Urchin

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2016
    Posts:
    2,665
    Trophy Points:
    212
    Location:
    Las Vegas
    Likes:
    +5,027
    Ebay:
    Decepticon Air, I think.
     

Share This Page