Considering A Scientifically Accurate Beast Wars...

Discussion in 'Transformers General Discussion' started by Alphard, Aug 17, 2017.

  1. Diecast G2

    Diecast G2 Transtectorless

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    There are still white tigers in the wild. It's a rare recessive trait, not a single freak mutation.

    The amount of inbreeding is awful though. I wouldn't be surprised if the amount of inbred white tigers alive today equals the amount of natural born white tigers from the last thousand years.
     
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  2. Alphard

    Alphard The Munkky With A Bowl On Its' Head

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    Oh god, it's that bandwagon news story again.

    The skin that we do have are from places on the T-Rex we already knew probably didn't have feathers.
    I didn't say that it would be all-over feathers, either.

    Here's a video on that specific news story:


    It still is a mutation, though. That's all I meant.
    But the rest, yeah. It makes me really sad when I think about how exploited these tigers are.

    I do think that they went with Africa too, but at the same time... the Ark makes everything complicated as hell. I'm basing this around them being reasonably close to the Ark's crash site.

    I kinda wanna make an African continent version of this now...

    Literally wikipedia and ... ugh what's that wiki that's just extinct animals

    They are pretty large though.

    I didn't want to get into the naming thing, since I thought that would be a given and also I didn't want to change the names in case someone thought I had just completely discarded a certain character.

    "Mastox" would be a pretty bad name. "Mastadox"???

    And I did say that Rhinox in particular I chose something I thought would be more fun and closer to a type of mascot for the era I chose.

    I feel you though.

    It'd be almost like a feathered cape. Very elegant. He keeps them nice.

    If it's any consolation, it still did have scaly skin alongside the feathers.


    (speaking of scientifically accurate Tyrannosaurus Rex... G1 Grimlock could pretty much stay the same, except maybe with a slight fix to its' posture.)

    Someone already replied to you about the Tyrannosaurus thing, so I'm just gonna leave this again for the first part in case in your research you find the recent sensationalist news story about the skin of T-Rex:


    I kind of went down the "what if they scanned from the hell creek formation" path, and a lot of my choices have to do with that. I was talking with a friend about this when I was initially picking out the alt-modes, and I decided to go with north american fossils due to the presence of the Ark. Giganotosaurus is from the south american continent, alas.

    Probably, heh. He'd almost be concerned about Megatron's wellbeing since he's not producing eggs!
    Megatron also refers to Inferno as a drone, when... I think he's supposed to be a worker ant? Hummm...

    It would!


    And this is true! I just didn't want to go into renaming characters lest someone scream at me for not including Rhinox. Rhinodon sounds really good. (Especially compared to what I was thinking of. Mastodox sounds kinda weird)
    I didn't go out of the time period I chose, is what I meant by those statements. Nor did I choose anything completely foreign to the character's canon alt mode.

    (Thank you, mod that fixed that! )
     
    Last edited: Aug 18, 2017
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  3. Sparky Prime

    Sparky Prime Well-Known Member

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    Well I did say Africa/Europe. And I dunno that I'd say none of the locations made sense. I felt the show was vague about distances so that they could get away with that sort of thing. Not to mention, a few million years worth of continental drift to take into consideration.
     
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  4. Mirage00

    Mirage00 Master of Hiding

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    Pretty sure in Beast wars the Maximals and Predacons are in AFRICA. Primal is a gorilla, Cheetor is a cheetah, and rhinox is a rhino, all these animals are from africa. When Cheetor runs into those other cheetahs in the pilot episode , that is a good indication that they are in africa or at least somewhere near.
     
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  5. SaberPrime

    SaberPrime Well-Known Member

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    There's something I think is quite obvious which I think a lot of people keep over looking when trying to figure out where Beast Wars takes place. You're all just looking at the animals they scanned but what about the freaking Standing Stones from the episode Chain of Command?

    Stonehenge is a prehistoric monument in Wiltshire, England, 2 miles (3 km) west of Amesbury and 8 miles (13 km) north of Salisbury. It consists of a ring of standing stones, with each standing stone around 13 ft (4.1 metres) high, 6 ft 11 in (2.1 metres) wide and weighing around 25 tons.

    That site actually exists in the real world, so why does no one ever mention it when trying to determine where the series takes place?

    I should also mention the crash site of the Ark. Fictionally the Ark, crashed into the side of the dormant volcano in Oregon not far from Portland called Mount St. Hilary. In real life Mount St. Helens is an active volcano in the state of Washington. Also the real mount st that the fictional one is based on erupted four years earlier. Either way this places them in what will eventually be the United States of America, though exactly which state is not really clear.

    So how could they have got from England in the first season to America in the third season when we never see them cross the ocean?

    By the way, that's the other problem with this thread, we're talking about History and geography, not biology or anatomy. When I saw the title scientifically accurate Beast Wars I thought this was going to be more of about making the original beast modes more correct in size and shape cause the beast modes in the show were pretty much all female and as far as we can tell because they're the only ones we see actually interacting with real animals, Cheetor and Tigatron are the only ones with their correct scale.

    Of course they couldn't be anatomically correct because the show is made for kids and parents would complain if characters in a children's cartoon had genitals. And they couldn't be to scale, especially the insects, because they needed to roughly the same size. Megatron would be freaking gigantic compared to everyone else if he were made to scale. He wouldn't even need the other Predacons cause a T-Rex would just destroy all of the Maximals by himself... Well maybe Rhinox could give him a challenge cause they're kinda similar to the Triceratops and those things were known for using their horns to defend themselves from T-rex. But I'm pretty sure everyone else would be dead. Cheetor at best could out run Megatron but he's never going to stand a chance in a fight.
     
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  6. Sparky Prime

    Sparky Prime Well-Known Member

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    It comes up often actually. But there are also several megalith structures around the world besides just Stonehenge. That's just the most famous.

    It's a ~30 minute cartoon, they didn't have the time to show the entire trip. But I always got the impression it was a pretty long journey to the Ark from where the Maximals/Predacons landed. Even Blackarachnia built something in order for her to be able to fly there by herself. And as I mentioned earlier, there are several million years worth of continental drift to consider here as well.
     
  7. SaberPrime

    SaberPrime Well-Known Member

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    Really because every time I see someone talk about this they only ever seem to talk about the animals that are present in the series... though they usually tend to come to the "somewhere in Africa" conclusion cause that's where most of the animals can be found.

    I know they didn't have time to show the entire trip but they could of shown at least 30 seconds of "Hey look we're crossing the ocean now." Plus I always got the impression that everything was relatively close together because they're not very big and they don't have vehicle modes so I don't think they can really travel that far that quickly... and remember they actually discovered the Ark before loosing the Axelon and were traveling back and forth between the two locations on a daily basis.

    I would guess that the entire area they covered, accounting for the fact they're robots and probably don't need to rest like real animals would, that everything they've explored is all within 100 miles in any direction around three main locations. The Axelon, the Ark, and the Darksyde. Not the Nemesis because that only showed up in two episodes and it was never used as a main base/headquarters for either team. Basically I'm thinking the Predacons would also be within 100 miles of the Darksyde and the Maximals would always be within 100 miles of the Axelon or the Ark. Plus I'm thinking that if you drew a circle around each location there'd be about 50 miles of space where any two locations over lap each other and maybe 25 miles of space where all three locations over lap with each other. Keep in mind this is all guess work, things could be closer or farther apart but based on the characters movements I still maintain that there is some level of over lap where the area around each base location over laps with the others... there's a word for this which I am totally blanking on right now...

    Venn Diagram, that's what I was trying to think of. Like you put three dots on a map. One representing each base. Then you draw circles around each one showing the area in which the Maximals or Predacons could have realistically traveled from their respective bases. There would have to be some level of over lap other wise the Maximals and Predacons would never run into each other or the Ark.

    I'm also thinking that because the geography and history never quite lines up with anything in real life that there's just no possible way of ever figuring out where on Earth they are. Even as I mentioned in my previous post, the location of the Ark is based on a real location but the fictional version is in a different state, has a different name, and erupted in a different year. So who's to say that other historical and geological conditions in the Transformers universe aren't also different from the real world?
     
  8. Agamus

    Agamus Not an Iguana

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    As a Washingtonian that shit is terrifying. Not even to mention the Cascadia fault line.
     
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  9. SaberPrime

    SaberPrime Well-Known Member

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    Oddly I know a lot of people who either want to move to your state or already have. I'm in California, we get Earth quakes too... though in 31 years I have never actually felt one. Apparently I slept through one last year when we went to my grandparents. As soon as we got to their house, it was like 10pm, I was tired and pretty much fell asleep in the living room like ten minutes after we got there, then the next day my parents told me I slept through an Earth quake.

    My grandparents live like 400 miles away plus my dad's van broke down on the way there so we got stuck in Manteca for two hours. I think they had to replace the radiator. And I'm only OK with naming Manteca because it's no where near where me or my grandparents live and you have no idea exactly how far between us that is to figure out exactly where in California we are.
     
  10. Agamus

    Agamus Not an Iguana

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    There're minor tremors around the state all the time, but only one major quake hit my area since I moved here and I was too little to remember it.

    The thing that gets to me is the looming threat though... The fact that the mountains I see on the horizon on clear days have an earthquake big enough to send a tsunami to Japan primed right underneath them.

    I mean it goes all the way from Vancouver Island into California, and I used to go camping and skiing on it.
     
  11. Sparky Prime

    Sparky Prime Well-Known Member

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    I guess, but I just don't see how they'd have the time for even that, when it wouldn't have added to the plot and that episode was crammed full of developments.

    For the first season I'd agree, they didn't seem to go far from their bases. Although, there were still a few occasions they had to travel pretty far, like when Tigatron's stasis pod crashed in the 'northern sector'. And by the second season, several of them got vehicle modes thanks to their Transmetal forms, and more characters got the ability to fly.

    Not really... I mean, the Axalon was destroyed right after they first discovered the Ark. They never had the opportunity to travel back and forth on a daily basis from what we saw.
     
  12. SaberPrime

    SaberPrime Well-Known Member

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    They wouldn't even need literal dialog, just something to indicate that they traveled that distance. Any little thing even if it's just a shot of them going over water. They could have dialog from another scene moved to that shot so it wouldn't take up much time. But we never see them leave that same jungle that they're always in which leads me to believe that they never left that land mass.

    Well they were more like beast modes with things slapped on them. But not everyone had those kinds of upgrades and even the ones who did still wouldn't be able to make a trip across water. The only characters who gained the ability to fly are Cheetor and sort of Megatron... I mean he did have those fans on his butt but they only really seemed to propel him forward on his roller skates. I'm pretty sure even if that could fly that it would only be short distances. Dragon Megatron can fly but not very fast. Primal had flight modes but he was already able to fly from the start. Rattrap and Tarantulus had land based at modes. Depth Charge had an obvious advantage for crossing water. But most characters were land locked.

    There were three episodes where they had both the Axelon and the Ark. Two of those episodes probably took place on the same day but the third one I doubt it. Plus there was a failed attempt to destroy the Axelon before that so I think there was at least three days of back and fourth. There's also the fact that even after the Axelon was destroyed the Maximals were still going back and fourth between the two location because they salvaged whatever they could from the Axelon to build a defense system around the Ark. It may not have lasted very many episodes but they went back and forth so much that hour and a half, or with commercials more like 45 minutes of screen time felt like days. And if they had to cross the freaking the ocean to get from the Axelon to the Ark, then those three episodes would more realistically have been time lapsed from what would of been weeks or months of time for them. In other words they would be going back and forth on a daily basis, which for someone like Rhinox I don't think is even possible unless they're relatively close and on the same continent.
     
  13. Murasame

    Murasame CHIMICHANGAS

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    Posting the picture of an almost completely covered in feathers t-rex (save for the tail) suggest other intentions by you.
     
  14. Diecast G2

    Diecast G2 Transtectorless

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    What are you talking about? The Axalon was destroyed before Primal put the spark back. There was not multiple stories with both bases.

    Also, it's Axalon.
     
    Last edited: Aug 19, 2017
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  15. Sparky Prime

    Sparky Prime Well-Known Member

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    Problem with that is that the scene they had was a flashback of the Ark crashing on Earth. It would have been odd to cut to an establishing shot of the Maximals over water during that scene.

    I dunno, personally, I just never had a problem believing they crossed to another land mass given an implied distance, particularly with seeing it took Silverbolt and Blackarachnia a lot longer to get there in the previous episode, even if they never actually established the actual distance or travel time.

    Not everyone needed those upgrades. We saw in that episode Rhinox got a ride with Optimus and Rattrap got a ride with Cheetor. Even Silverbolt, despite his ability to fly already, caught a ride on the thing Blackarachnia built to fly herself there. They had no problems flying to the Ark. And Megatron could certainly fly in his Transmetal form. He hardly ever used the roller skates.

    Exactly. The Ark was found in the episode "The Agenda part III", and the Axalon was destroyed in the very next episode, "Optimal Situation".

    Yeah, but they cut to having everything already in place at the end of the episode. There's no telling how much time it actually took them to salvage parts of the Axalon and move everything, let alone setting it all up at the volcano.
     
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  16. SaberPrime

    SaberPrime Well-Known Member

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    What are you talking about? The Ark was never destroyed... in fact it can't be destroyed because it would create a paradox if they destroyed the Ark. Also Primal wouldn't be able to return Prime's spark if the Ark was destroyed before he could do that. That part where you say "Also, it's Axalon" are you talking to yourself? Because it's the Axalon that gets destroyed not the Ark.

    Also the Ark was first seen in the Agenda part 2. The Axalon gets destroyed in Optimal Situation, two episodes later. In those three episodes where they had both the Axalon and the Ark they did in fact travel back and forth between both ships multiple times. Plus in the next episode AFTER the Axalon gets destroyed they talk about salvaging material from the Axalon to build their new base guarding the Ark. They're already pretty far along and this would require another multiple trips back and forth, most of it off screen but it did happen. There's no way they could carry all that junk from the Axalon back to the Ark all in one trip.

    Not really because we really don't need to see a flash back of a scene from the G1 cartoon rendered in CGI. There's not really any need for that flash back cause if you really want to see, watch the pilot of G1.

    They didn't establish the actual distance or travel time... that's why we're having this discussion right now. If it was established then there would be no reason to debate this. We could just point out that scene where Silverbolt or Blackarachnia clearly state exactly what distance and over how long they traveled but no such scene exists. We're just guessing based on our personal opinions of how long or how far we think they traveled. Also Blackarachnia is another character who I don't think is even capable of traveling across the ocean. This is also kinda of important considering she's the first one to discover the Ark. And it was established that she had traveled there before on her own before that time when Silverbolt followed her there. Blackarachnia had been to the Ark several times off screen before we even knew it was there. Considering she can't fly and has no vehicle mode, how the hell did she keep it a secret from the other Predacons and the Maximals for so long. It would have to be relatively close cause in order for her to have traveled across the ocean by herself to get to the Ark from the Darksyde she would of gone missing for months and the Predacons would have noticed her absence if she was gone for that long. She wouldn't be able to make multiple trips back and fourth without someone other than just Silverbolt wandering where the hell she's disappearing to.

    I don't recall Blackarachnia building anything. They walked most of the way there. I think maybe you're thinking of that thing Tarantulus built when he was planning to leave the Earth before the Vok attempted to destroy it.

    Actually the Ark was first seen in the Agenda Part 2 so it was two episodes later not the very next episode. And again, as I told the other guy, we actually see them go back and forth between those locations multiple times within that short amount of screen time so the bases are either relativly close together or those three episode are time lapsed over the course of several days. They would have to be making that trip from one location to the other over the course of days, weeks, or months depending on the character, how many trips they've taken, and the means by which they have to travel. I think at most we see them go back and fourth at least five times.

    From Axalon to the Ark when they first became aware of it. 1

    From Ark back to the Axalon for the first failed attempt to destroy the Axalon. 2

    From the Axalon back to the Ark again when Megatron broke in attempting to kill Prime. 3

    From the Ark back to the Axalon again when it was successfully destroyed. 4

    From the destroyed Axalon bringing salvaged parts back to the Ark. 5

    And that's just what we see on screen. That's not even including however many times Blackarachnia went there on her own from the Darksyde before Silverbolt followed her. And I'm sure they didn't transport that salvage from the Axalon all in one trip so however many times they traveled off screen to get all that stuff to the Ark. There are six characters who appear in those episodes who can't make that flight under their own power so I'm just going to add an extra six trips and say there's approximately 154 hours of travel time happening in those three episode. I'm just going to round that up to 7 days, a week worth of just travel time at best. If anything I'm under estimating this.

    I actually just went to Google Maps and calculated an approximate 14 hour flight between Portland Oregon US and Amesbury Salisbury UK. That's for a one way trip. I times that by 11 to get the estimate above. And because we don't know exactly how many times they went back and forth off screen, that times 11 is probably low balling it. Also because Google doesn't have a by boat option so I kinda have to assume that everyone can fly there... at the same speed... which I'm pretty sure Cheetor is the fastest and would probably be slowed down having to carry Rattrap's weight.

    Since a lot of characters are land locked and can't fly, mainly Blackarachnia who was the first to travel to the Ark on her own, I seriously doubt that any of them ever traveled that distance. I don't think they time lapsed a week worth of traveling into three episodes. It seemed like everything that happens in those episodes happens in three days at most which would mean they're relatively close together, on the same continent, no crossing the ocean required. And given Blackarachnia traveled there on her own walking it can't be much farther than 100 miles away. She may of had something to help her get there faster the time we see her go there with Silverbolt but she had been there before and would have no reason to build such a machine before she knew the Ark was there which means at least the first time she went there by herself she would have to walk that entire distance under he own power. I think any more than 100 miles away someone would of noticed that Blackarachnia went missing long before Silverbolt started following her. Simple reason being that any further than that it would take her more than a few hours a day to go to the Ark and back to the Darksyde. If she went missing for any more than a few hours a day, Megatron would be wandering where the hell she disappeared to. It's kinda hard to not notice when one of your troops doesn't show up to work for two days. And that's if she could fly, which she can't. But if it's just a few miles away not over seas, then Blackarachnia could totally make that trip without Megatron noticing she's missing. Megatron never seems to notice, or if he does he just doesn't care when his troops wander off on their own for hours. Either way there's gotta some kind of limit to that. Like he doesn't care as long as they still show up to fight Maximals when they're called on but if they went missing for days without showing up to battles then he would wander what the hell they're doing.

    Actually Rhinox was setting everything up at the start of the next episode. Still either way the actual salvaging part happened off screen. We hear them talk about it but never actually see any of it. Most of the work appears to be done by the start of the next episode except Rhinox is still trying to repair the equipment to actually get it functioning.
     
  17. Agamus

    Agamus Not an Iguana

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    The salt is real
     
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  18. Dinobot Snarl

    Dinobot Snarl Well-Known Member

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    I thought we were going discuss how the organic bits work with the robotic bits
     
  19. Sparky Prime

    Sparky Prime Well-Known Member

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    I'm just going to cut to this and say, you definitely need to watch the episodes again. Blackarachnia built a flying platform which she uses to follow Waspinator at the end of "The Agenda part 1". She and Silverbolt arrive at the volcano in the "The Agenda part 2" (accidentally running into Waspinator smashing both him and the platform to bits), but the Ark itself doesn't appear until "The Agenda, part III" when they finally dig their way into the cavern. And we don't see them go back and forth multiple times. After the battle with Ravage in part 3, the Maximals follow Megatron to the Ark, where Megatron tries to kill Prime. Then in the very next episode, "Optimal Situation", the Maximals begin repairing Prime, Optimus becomes Optimal Optimus, and then Optimus and Cheetor return to the Axalon where Rampage is dragging it over the side of the cliff with the arachnid bots. That's all they show.
     
  20. SaberPrime

    SaberPrime Well-Known Member

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    "According to Optimus Primal, the Ark was built using "die-cast" construction, a lost art by the Beast Wars era.

    According to Blackarachnia, the Ark was launched under the command of Optimus Prime, carrying a group of the Autobots' "finest heroes". One of the two known copies of the Covenant of Primus was carried aboard. During the voyage, the Ark came under attack by the Nemesis, the flagship of the Decepticon fleet. Decepticon Leader Megatron led a boarding party which attacked the Ark crew. However, both ships were damaged and fell into the gravity well of the nearby planet Earth. The Ark crashed into a semi-active volcano, and the Transformers aboard were sent into emergency stasis lock.

    Though Megatron had ostensibly come to prehistoric Earth to look for a massive cache of energon to fuel his war against the Maximal Imperium, he was in reality following instructions recorded by the original Megatron on the Golden Disk from the Voyager space probe. Once on Earth, he apparently found the crash site of the Ark, but buried the entrance to the interior of the volcano. At that point, he had deemed the plan to destroy the deactivated Autobots aboard her and change the outcome of the Great War as a last-chance gamble should he ever be backed into a corner with little hope of escape. Such a situation came to pass while he was a prisoner aboard Ravage's transwarp cruiser, and he convinced the former Decepticon to free him by revealing his plan. The Agenda (Part 2)"

    Ark (G1) - Transformers Wiki

    If the Ark wasn't seen till part 3 why does the Wiki cite part 2 as the episode that all this happens in.
     
    Last edited: Aug 20, 2017

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