First off: English is not my first language.  

I do make errors. Some I don't learn about until years later. For example, up until very recently, I was firmly convinced that "circumvene" is an English word, instead of the correct "circumvent". I do try to avoid these errors, however, and appreciate any corrections.  

Second: In my experience, anyone for whom English not the first language and who starts with "sorry for my bad English" usually has nothing to feel sorry about. Those people are aware that their language skills are lacking, and more often than not, they put a lot of effort into forming coherent sentences. Sure, the grammar is off a little, they chose a few wrong words... but you can see the effort, and they get the point across. That's nothing to feel sorry about, and I will never, ever attack a post like that.

However, there's the other side... the lazy people. The ones for whom English IS the first language. For some reason, thy R undr te imprsion tht evry chracter thy typ is chargd xtra. they arent aware that there is a shift key and an apostrophe key so they dont have to write like this. Dey tink 1337speak and typin like ur talken is keWl. They just dun 4 proper grammer care or spellen. They're the folks who will keep typing about Skorpinock, Devistater, Bumble B and Sound Wave. they will type a sentnce and than not care and bvecauaaase ait will is end different than like it started. In general, those people are of the really, really impatient variety that is really itchy on hitting the "submit reply" button, and therefore cant be bothered to actually check their posts to make sure they don't contain any

Those are the people I criticize, and will continue to criticize.

Everyone was a beginner at one point. That's okay. But there's no excuse for continuing to be one after years of practice.

 

I am going to go a Japanese forum, then berate them when they don't accept my horribly phrased and typed kanji. I have no need for Japanese sentence structure since I'll just use English structure in a foreign language. IT'S THE WORLD WIDE WEB, they should welcome me with open arms. If they don't, they're ignorant and racist.

 

Why do so many people think the rules of the English language don't apply to them? It's not like those rules are there to piss people off, they exist to facilitate communication. If you're not willing to play by the rules, stay out of the game.

 

I agree some people make unwarranted comments about poor english/grammar, i just keep my pie hole shut. Using a klan comparison is a bit too sticky for me to touch with a ten foot pole though.

 

As long as there's a "pardon my english, it's not my natural language" disclaimer somewhere in the post or poster's history, it doesn't bug me.

 

The functionally official language of this board, like it or not, is English. I'm not clear what a "white ethnic" model of that language is, but whatever.

And I'm as bad as anyone about expecting folks to communicate clearly...but! That being said, if someone isn't a native English speaker, I cheerfully give them a pass and would think others would also. The same goes for posters who have a natural handicap (like my favorite, Spiderus Prime). If, however, you're just ignorant or lazy in your posting style, then don't be suprised when folks perceive you has ignorant or lazy.

 

Holy shit, seriously?

Ugh.

Outstanding. I couldn't agree more.

And Nevermore is a great example of someone who frankly shames me for not having mastered another language as thoroughly as he clearly and he has. And there's plenty of others to include in that list--bigpete, Tricky Disco, SydneyY, and I'm sure I'm forgetting many more.

The Army (yeah, yeah, I know, but bear with me) classifies languages from Category I to V, with V being the most difficult. English is a V. Chinese is a III, German is a IV. So these guys are all batting above their home league, and many of 'em are performing better than folks who grew up with English. For real, good on all of 'em, and bad on all of my fellow native speakers for embarassing yourselves.

 

I agree with jametron. While it can be difficult to read these posts that you speak of, you have to remember (as has been said before) that english is not everyone's first language and this is the world wide web. One of the things I like about this forum is conversing with people from around the world. If I didn't, I would just stay on cybertron.ca. Also when you take into account all the slang, English is one of the hardest languages to learn. So to all you people out there who don't fluently speak English: Keep on posting, I am sure you put more effort into what you write than a some of the English speakers do. As for the criticism people post, I get the feeling that padding their post counts might be the real reason for their unecessary posts
Iam on your side jametron, and I only know how to speak english.

 

Really? So people wanting to read intelligent and coherent posts are like klan members? You do know most klan members are ignorant fuckers that don't know a lick of grammar. On the whole, I believe people here do give freepasses to non-native speakers or disabled types, but frankly, there are a lot of just plain lazy typers that refuse to do simple things like capitalise the first word in their sentences, use commas, and such.

 

See, here's the thing, though. Most folks who criticize other posters' English on the boards are jumping on native speakers for being either ignorant or lazy, not non-native speakers for failing to completely master a second langauge.

You're manufacturing a boogey man here.

Hey hey hey those Klansman are my old neighbors...okay, yeah, they're usually pretty goddam ignint.  

 

Yea, while I don't like how some people misspell words and type in bad grammar, I think it's a bit mean to go and say to learn English (Though when it's someone talking in leetspeak and or just a stupid moron, I'll go ahead and tell them that they're a disappointment to many).

I can agree with Nevermore and Bryan., in saying that the people who only have English are incredibly lazy sometimes. I'm ashamed that I don't know a second language (and it hurts more since I'm Filipino), and I will applaud those who are trying their best with learning English if it isn't their first language.

 

I agree, some people are pretty harsh to others around here. It's funny how members of this board have no problem cruising non English sights for news, pictures etc. to post over here or are more than happy to look at pictures a lot of our friends from Asia post for upcoming toys but as soon as one of them have poor sentence structure they make fun of them.

I remember the time a bunch of people made fun of an autistic kid because his writing was really hard to understand. Instead of asking him what he meant, they just put post after post of insults. I love TFW but there are some real assholes among us.

 

This issue is definitely a case by case thing. There are situations where posters on here aren't used to the English language, and that is understandable, but there are still situations where there are posters on here who should know how to properly use the English language, and just refuse to try. Most of the time, it isn't hard to tell the difference between the two situations. A poster who's first language isn't English will actually try to make their posts understandable, and most of the time, they succeed. Those who have more trouble than others will also, like others have said, specify that their first language isn't English, which is very helpful.

However, the posters who should know how to fully and properly use the English language (aka those who's first language was English, and don't have any actual reason for not being able to use it properly), just simply refuse to even try. These posters often use "internet speak" way too much (omg,lol,optms,strsrm,etc...), and are the issue with trying to read posts on the boards.

I don't really see how racism comes into this. I see how it potentially could (if people were targeting people from a certain country/race on the boards), but I don't see how it applies to this situation. Wanting to understand posts on the boards does not instantly make one racist. Wanting to force the English language on people in other, non English speaking, countries, would definitely be racist, but that's not what is happening here (so far). There are certainly those on the boards that can get really rude towards those that have trouble using the English language, but not every situation is the same, and it doesn't instantly make everybody who mention's having issues understanding someone's post a racist.

It doesn't help that the English language is said to be the hardest language to learn, which honestly makes sense, so it's understandable (to me at least) how people who didn't grow up learning it, can have issues trying to use it.

 

Nice edit . This would be why I am understanding about this. Who here has never misspelled a word or used improper grammer. I know I have in the past and will again in the future. That is one of the reasons I have an editor, so he can find those mistakes in the articles I write, then I can learn to be a better writer through his feedback.

 

I agree. If someone says they aren't a native speaker and asks us to excuse their grammar, then it's all good. But the claim that someone is utterly and completely ignorant by expecting people to communicate in passable English is a bit of an exaggeration.

 

Because there's a difference between someone who makes a typo and someone who repeatedly refuses to bother proofing their posts or putting any effort into it.

 

I agree!

I also love that your sig is a compliment paid to you by a member who was banned for horribly racist comments. I'm just sayin'...isn't it ironic? Don't you think?

 

Not sure if what I have to say is related to this topic, but whatever...

As a teacher, I despise how alot of my younger students (9th-10th graders mostly) use text message language instead of regular english. I cannot tell you how many papers and essays I have had to trash due to the use of text message language in them.

It's little things like this that irritate me, because some people have grown so accustomed to texting that they have abandoned the traditional ways to communicate.

 

You're doing the world a favor, trust me.