Combiners, and other complaints

Discussion in 'Transformers General Discussion' started by Movebuster, Apr 13, 2008.

  1. Movebuster

    Movebuster Hiding True Intelligence

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    My apologies if this has been mentioned before. But as a reaction to the post by Cheebs, what exactly is the point of Combiners? Why not just build a really big transformer in the first place, and not have him/her separate into five smaller and more vulnerable transformers most of the time?

    Also, I don't understand why the live action movie toys still haven't gotten around to introducing some combiners yet. Combiners are probably one of the coolest toy gimmicks on the market, IMHO.
     
  2. nkelsch

    nkelsch Do you know this Icon? TFW2005 Supporter

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    "more than the sum of their parts"

    The whole point was that this super soldier was more powerful than its 5-6 individual soldiers. And also, it became an arms race... Instead of having a large soldier that has the weaknesses of being large, you can have commando groups who can pull it out as a weapon at any time.
     
  3. Sol Fury

    Sol Fury The British Butcher Administrator News Staff

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    The Movie guys didn't want to do Combiners until they could come up with a cool way of doing it. Give them a chance, we're only on Movie #1.

    I always felt the general principle behind combining robots was to have a team of specialists who have the super warrior as their trump card. Take for example the Combaticons, a team of commandos who between them possess a range of different combat capabilities, who then unite into Bruticus for the heavy assault missions. Or the Predacons, individual hunters who together form the most perfect feral warrior on the Decepticon side. Split up for the hunt, then merge for the kill.

    You could make a case for the united robot being able to utilise his component's abilities in a more effective way as well - like if one of the Protectobots had a personal shield, Defensor's would be many times more powerful as he is using the strength of five to power it.
     
  4. KA

    KA PENIS GOES WHERE?!!

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    nkelsch got it right the 1st time around.

    its just not efficient to have the big guys deployed all the time. the combining gimmick makes having a large bot to pop out of nowhere more feasible.
     
  5. Lumpy

    Lumpy Taylor Swift Actionmaster Super Mod

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    so....you're complaining about combiners, then complaining about the lack of combiners? that makes no sense...
     
  6. videriant

    videriant Well-Known Member

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    I think it was more "combiners GOOOOD. . .wait, why do we have combiners?"
     
  7. Movebuster

    Movebuster Hiding True Intelligence

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    I was making a dry joke. And yet I was serious.
    All of your points appear valid. except I wonder if it really is more efficient for the big robot to dissappear when he isn't needed. What costs more... to build the five small robots and the 1 large robot separate and thereby allow them to fight side by side, or to go about the effort of engineering the combining feature. Also, if some robot's mass-shift when they transform, wouldn't it be easier to engineer the mass shift into 1 robot and surn him into a supersoldier? If a Super-robot combiner of five is stronger than, say, Metroplex because he has five power generators, why not give a robot like Metroplex five separate power generators?
     
  8. unicronhq

    unicronhq Banned

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    megatron in beast wars said it best of all as he viewed all the G1 transformers in stasis lock....archaic energon guzzlers....size means large energon consumption...why do you think metroplex and trypticon were not always around in the battle on every show, takes fuel to move those large, clunky bots around......
     
  9. Mixmaster

    Mixmaster logh ghot SIS yoD TFW2005 Supporter

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    Most of the fiction I'm aware of has Metroplex larger than the combiners. However it seems reasonable it's far more difficult to build the citybots than it is to convert five normal size robots so they can combine.

    Larger robots would be far more difficult to hide, and less versatile than five or six individuals. On the other hand there is the vulnerability of the individual combiner components.
     
  10. butz

    butz slippery when wet

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    Gotta go with nkelsch on this one.
     
  11. red00wolf

    red00wolf insatiable collector

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    What i want to know is what makes combiners stronger then there componet parts? If combiner limb guy#2 is thrown into a wall he gets hurt but if hes the arm and fist at the moment punching the wall or other big hard thing is fine, also if i shoot combiner limb guy he gets hurt if i shoot gestailts limb its fine. why is this?
     
  12. Sol Fury

    Sol Fury The British Butcher Administrator News Staff

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    Well, something I'd like to raise about Combiners that I just thought of is King Poseidon. In Masterforce, the smaller Seacons are drones. Easily destroyed, but numerous. So naturally, you just need to get enough of them in one place with Turtler and King Poseidon can appear. The limbs on that one are mass-produced drones, so damage one limb, and in theory he can swap it out for a fresh one.

    Piranacon is a special case anyway, though, since his limbs allow him to form different guns. He can configure his body to switch in different members so he can have the correct kind of weapon for any situation.

    Another thing on Combiners, returning to the "stronger than their component parts" thing. A couple of combiners are shown to have components kept individually which when they combine unleash their full power, complete with kill switches to make them disengage. Monstructor is the big example. Magnaboss is a different case. In him, the merged form unites the key qualities of his components to form a warrior uniquely able to draw on purified Angolmois energy.

    It's versatility, though. A big robot lumbering onto a battlefield can be spotted a ways off. The Decepticons probably wouldn't pay the same attention if they saw a group of Autobots flying in - and even if they did, the components do not all need to arrive from the same direction. There's an element of surprise to splitting up. There's also the ease of maintenance - the issue of a limb being damaged was mentioned. If they were one really big 'bot, the whole bot is out of action. With a combiner, Slingshot might be on the sidelines, but the other Aerialbots can continue to function. In an emergency, someone like Blades or Strafe could sub for the missing guy (either using "Scramble Power", or by being modified to fit with the combiner, depending on your choice of combiner science).
     
  13. nkelsch

    nkelsch Do you know this Icon? TFW2005 Supporter

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    That is kinda the point. Usually in science, it is close to impossible to make something "more than the sum of its parts". Everything is a mathematical formula that has to balance out.

    At least in G1, it was kinda 'unknown' why the combiners were stronger and better than the sum of their parts. But it worked and they went with it.
     
  14. SpriteSODA

    SpriteSODA Well-Known Member

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    you need to remember that this show was based on toys, and combining toys are a great gimmick.
     
  15. Ramrider

    Ramrider TF Art Lad

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    Another reason big bots are less practical long term is the sheer collateral damage potential. The big bots are BIG, and you can bet a single footstep could be felt a mile off. Look at poor Metroplex. He's not kept largely out of action purely because he's a key part of Autobot City, but also how much property damage he could inadvertantly cause, even just by walking around.
    Combiners are able to provide the power of a big bot as and when it's required, but can 'switch it off' when not needed simply by separating.
     
  16. Macross7

    Macross7 Well-Known Member

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    The need to break apart so they can come inside. Sure would suck for Superion having to live in the yard instead of the 5 Aierialbots being able to come inside out of the rain.
     
  17. Ray Kremer

    Ray Kremer Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, the more stuff a toy does the more cool it is.

    See also: triplechanges, the "two and a half" mode Transmetals from BW, all the Optmuses that can combine with their trailer and/or other autobots in some way.

    See also: standard story technique of one-upping your opponent. "Oh yeah? Well little did you know we can also combine our robots into one giant robot!"

    Of course, this is often lost on things like Power Rangers, Voltron, and even Transformers itself, when the heroes almost always go right to the combined form without even bothering to show they are outmatched as individual units. At which point, yes, it's somewhat pointless from a in-story, non-toy perspective to have a combiner instead of a single giant robot.
     
  18. Geminii

    Geminii Toyetic multiformophile

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    Yeah, the more stuff a toy does the more cool it is.

    Bingo. It's the same reason that covers Transformers turning into vehicles and other forms. Each mode has advantages and disadvantages, and if you can switch freely between them at will, you get twice the advantages all the time. Need to go fast? Switch to a jet mode or something with wheels. Need to clamber over a mountain or blasted cityscape? Robot mode. Need multipoint scouting? Use the individual members of a team. Need a huge robot to clobber something? Combine and prepare for smackdown.
     
  19. silverstreak70

    silverstreak70 Well-Known Member

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    Marketing, pure marketing.
    Who buys just one of a combiner set? No one wants just Onslaught or Hot Spot. As cool as the individual components are, the combiner mode beats all on every one of them. So it's one more trip around town to try and find the last missing protectobot, aerialbot, combaticon, predacon... lol.
     
  20. lazerrodphill

    lazerrodphill Well-Known Member

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    I can remeber watching g1 and waiting for the combiners to form the big guys. If you want to be a realist. I don't care for the size the robots became when merged. But as a fan who cares about the technical crap. Bruticus kicks tailpipe!!!!!!!
     

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