Combiner Minds

Discussion in 'Transformers General Discussion' started by Barricade24, Jul 19, 2012.

  1. Barricade24

    Barricade24 The Decepticop

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    I have been wondering a lot about how Combiners' mind work. Bruticus for example is made up of 5 individual robots, each with a different personality. So, how does the mind of a combiner opperate? Is it like a giant hive mind where all the other robots think as one? Is it a giant mech that one of the robots operates. Or is it a completly different robot with a completly different personallity. And if that is the case, what happens to the mind of the individual robots?

    I look foward to your thoughts.
     
  2. ZacWilliam

    ZacWilliam Well-Known Member

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    This is actually gone into a lot in the combiners original spec bios and TF Universe profile entries.

    The component minds are merged into a single whole new mind. But how well they mesh is a big factor on how well that works.

    Menasaur is a raging monster, useless mentally, specifically because the other components all hate and loathe Motormaster so much, and it interferes with their merged mental processes.

    Where as Predaking works perfectly because all the Predacon's hunter instincts combine and mesh to make the perfect instinctual predator.

    It's an interesting topic. The Autobots didn't have much better luck.

    Superion is mentally very simple, perhaps due to being the Bot's first attempt at the process, and can only function under two guidelines 1) Protect Humans and 2) Destroy Decepticons.

    Meanwhile Defensor works much better, but is SO themeatically unified that he actually suffers the mental delusion that he IS one of the humans he is so focused on protecting.


    -ZacWilliam, later the Bots overcomponsated with Computron who is so dedicated to thinking/intelligence that his actions frequently come too late to be of use. :p 
     
  3. Barricade24

    Barricade24 The Decepticop

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    So the basis of a Combiner is based on how well the individual robots interact with one another?
     
  4. ZacWilliam

    ZacWilliam Well-Known Member

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    Not necessarilly how well they interact, but how well their minds mesh. (Which when seperated can effect how they interact of course.)

    Motormaster is such a profound a$$hat and so hated by the others, Menasaur is reduced to a raging monster. Where as similar and very compatable main drives "Hunting" in the Preds or rescuing humans in the Protectobots seems to result in a more funtional gestalt.


    -ZacWilliam, the Cons seem to have made this work by going with all Animal/monster teams after Bruticus so that their fierce animal nature and instincts served as a common ground for the merger. The Autobots, on the other hand, just gave up after Computron.
     
  5. ZacWilliam

    ZacWilliam Well-Known Member

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    Sorry to keep expanding this post but it's been a long time since I read some of these profiles and they keep stiring up more thoughts...


    From Budainsky's original TFU profile of Bruticus:

    Basically the one thing all the Combaticons have in comon is their millitary nature, so that's what comes through in Bruticus. But he's just a soldier and lacks inititive and planning skills of Onslaught, guile of Swindle, or any of the rest of the contrasting personality features of the other members. He is, rather, their minds distilled down to JUST the things they ALL have in common: military soldiering.

    Budainsky specifically says (here and elsewhere) that it IS a merger of minds into one we're dealing with.

    Computron reinforces this idea:

    The Technobots
    So the Technos insisted that instead of just functioning in the Venn Diagram places where their minds overlapped (which seems to have been the usual deal, as above) that their merger take in a complete adressing of each minds opinons and abillities. This resulted in a "Genious crippled by Serious Systems Lag" issues.

    Superion's profile suports this whole concept and is a direct contrast to Computrons in how he approaches the mental merge.

    Like Bruticus, he exists only in what the five component minds share in comon, unfortunately unlike Bruticus or Predaking, they don't really have anything in comon other than being Autobots. So Superion is reduced mentally to pretty much just "I Fight Decepticons." That's literally all there is to him.

    And, to show I really should have looked at these in the order they were created, Devastator, the first gestalt, sums it up:


    It's very cool to me that Budainsky apparently had a very clear idea of how this technology worked when he was creating all these characters and he stuck with it over the years as more different combners were added.


    -ZacWilliam, really does find this stuff very interesting.
     
  6. Koolimus Prime

    Koolimus Prime Weapons Expert

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    In my personal canon, the gestalt is a seperate mind that is constantly under the influence of it's components subconsious minds, if the componants agree perfectly, as ZacWilliam said, like the Predacons, everything works smoothly, but if the components can't agree on ANYTHING, the gestalt becomes a berserk rogue and requires great effort for the components to dislodge and stop the raging giant.
     
  7. Karhukjnsi

    Karhukjnsi Universal Wrestler

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    Yeah, I've always seen it as an amalgamation of the components, taking any unified characteristics, and the stronger personalities taking the forefront. Bruticus, for example: all of them enjoy war/fighting for one reason or another, and are all damn good at it, Bruticus is a fighter due to that. Brawl has a very strong HATE personality, due to its strength, Bruticus also reflects that (though likely there's still an amount of 'hate' in all of them to help segue it). Onslaught is the only one that has strategic/tactical ability, and because he's the only one with that, strategy and tactical ability DOES NOT show up in Bruticus, because of how minimalistic it is.

    -Karhukjnsi, cases like the Seacons and Predacons work well because they all share that desire for hunting/killing. Menasor is filled with (inner) rage, especially because how the other four hate Motormaster, when channeled right, that rage can be directed to Menasor's opponent. Computron is highly intelligent, because all of the components be smart.
     
  8. ThaConqueror

    ThaConqueror Rock! Robot Rock!

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    Another interesting tidbit is with the Seacons: as there are six members but only five are needed to form Piranacon, the guy who becomes the gone gets excluded from the personality-gestalt thing...which they usually relegate to Nautilator, as he's such a colossal screw-up that Piranacon's effectiveness is impaired when he's part of the main gestalt.

    Also, apparently Piranacon is so aggressive in his hunt that Snaptrap has somehow set a timer for how long they can be combined.
     
  9. Maximo Prime

    Maximo Prime Bassist of Ill Repute

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    In the bio for my (still WIP) Animated Menasor, i move things around a little - The other 4 Stunticons don't loathe Motormaster, but they hate turning into Menasor, who is pretty primitive mentally. So they constantly pull pranks on him, and he is only conscious from one combination to the next. He's always having his stuff taken, with IOUs from Motormaster, who he never finds because the dude makes up his torso and he's too dumb to figure that out. One day, it's explained to him, and he takes his revenge upon his component bots, and they learn never to mess with Big M again. Kinda like roommates who never see each other.
     
  10. Karhukjnsi

    Karhukjnsi Universal Wrestler

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    Aww, I got sad thinking about G1Uppers, and how they were gonna make the combining set for the BotCon '11 Stunticons to become Menasor.

    :( 

    I really wish we heard more from them, even if a confirmation of cancelling.
     
  11. Dracomancer

    Dracomancer Well-Known Member

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    The canonical description of the combining process makes it sound as if the gestalt form is less profound than any of its individual members; effectively discarding the individual strengths/qualities of the team's members in favour of keeping only those personality traits which they happen to all share. The impression I get is that the synthesis personality of a combiner is a simplified one-dimensional instinct-driven amalgamation; effectively less than the sum of its parts or even one of its singular parts. So the tradeoff for growing big is also growing dumb; excepting perhaps Computron whose "dumbness" instead manifests itself as indecision. An interesting notion. :) 
     
  12. ThrustJan

    ThrustJan Well-Known Member

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    Menasor gives the idea of a raging barbarian warrior(with the occasional problem of the conflicting minds that weakens his skills) and Abominus could even be worst,is a pure beast.

    Despite this,I think that Terrorcons should co-operate better, in a way more similar to Combacticons,making Abominus mind dangerous and savage but much more stable than Menasor.
     

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