can we talk about alternate history?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Crazy Ramjetty, Feb 7, 2012.

  1. Crazy Ramjetty

    Crazy Ramjetty marvel's got it good

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    I was planning on starting a thread on alternate history and was wondering if that would even be allowed considering we are not allowed to talk about politics or religion on this site so I'm asking first before I start a potential clusterfuck of arguing.
     
  2. Aernaroth

    Aernaroth <b><font color=blue>I voted for Super_Megatron and Veteran

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    Might not be a great idea, since it would inevitably veer into politics.
     
  3. TrueNomadSkies

    TrueNomadSkies Airachnid's ratservant

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    What could a bearded Spock ever have to do with politics?
     
  4. firehawc_69

    firehawc_69 cloppers = ignore list

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    I hate "what if" questions/threads. They're absolutely pointless. People actually argue about shit you can't prove.
     
  5. Crazy Ramjetty

    Crazy Ramjetty marvel's got it good

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    because its fun
     
  6. Nachtsider

    Nachtsider Banned

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    I love alternate history, particularly pertaining to military events and matters. I'm well-aware that such debates can touch on the political, so if you feel like a lengthy, in-depth discussion, just shoot me a PM or post a message on my profile.

    One of the more non-political alternate history scenarios I've pondered is this: what if the Mongols succeeded in their conquest of Europe?
     
  7. KA

    KA Well-Known Member

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    ...which is why its perfect for the internets!
     
  8. Crazy Ramjetty

    Crazy Ramjetty marvel's got it good

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    an empire can only be so big man, I always wondered just how different the world would be if Kennedy's assassin missed or if Hitler died in action during the first world war
     
  9. process

    process Hanlon's razor Veteran

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  10. KnightSaberAmi

    KnightSaberAmi Nyan Nyan

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  11. Murasame

    Murasame CHIMICHANGAS

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    I always wonder how far our technology would be developed if the catholic church would not have been. Or how life would be if people were not forced to convert and we still would have our original religion here and believe in gods like Thor and consorts and not in the other god. I mean, I don't believe in gods either, but interesting how it would have been if everything would be different. I would love to have a device which allows me to see the difference it would make.
     
  12. Cavshock

    Cavshock Well-Known Member

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    I don't think you would need that decisive victory. Starting In Kabul they would have to make their way to Rome. That could cause a problem because they would not have enough fuel but that is an easy fix. After the first battle with whatever legion was unfortunate enough to be closest you just take the prisoners and force them to pull, push, or drag your equipment towards Rome.
    Those POWs would be so frightened by our weaponry they would be more than willing to do as they are told. As we marched towards Rome we would encounter more legions but I don't think we would expend as much ordinance in battle than most people think we would. The Romans are used to mass formations so our artillery and mortars would make short work of them. A 155 Howitzer HE shell has a kill zone radius of fifty meters and a casualty radius is a hundred meters. I could go on with the other munitions issued to the tube heads but I think the point is made.
    Marine snipers would also destroy command elements within the legions from so far away that the it wouldn't be surprising if most common soldiers thought of the opposing force as magic users or witches or whatever.
    Rome would be "sacked" within a year and a half.

    Chuck
     
  13. The621

    The621 Fuck you, that's why!

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    You guys would have loved the lecture involving what if Alexander the Great never succumbed to alcohol poisoning or lived over his 30's.
     
  14. KnightSaberAmi

    KnightSaberAmi Nyan Nyan

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    Yeah I was thinking that too...buuuuuuuuut, we know how crazy Roman Generals really are: Case in point Teutobourg Forest. The Germans had been defeated and the state eventually wound up in rebellion. Before that it took over 13 legions plus entourage, probably about 100,000+ men to bring the Germans to task. The province of Germania was handed over General Publius Quintilius Varus and long story short one his advisers sold out and while on the way from summer quarters to winter quarters, his "adviser" attacked 3 Roman Legions wiping them out. Augustus was pissed and the 17th, 18th, and 19th Legion designations would never be used again. When all was said and done the General had to commit suicide after 3 Legions were wiped out. Why? Same dumbass reason as always Rome had to bring all things Roman to the Germans. But the Germans won out in the end after this victory, they were punished of course and 2 of the Roman Eagles recovered, however Rome would never again hold "North"(from Rome) of the Rhine again and Germania would never really be part of the Roman Empire after.

    My point being that after shock and awe wore off, after the Roman General in charge of the Army housed at Rome committed suicide (for losing Rome), they would hold off and attack once again and keep throwing bodies at the problem until it went away. The Roman Legions were just freaky like that look at what also happened in Britain; Hadrian had to give it up and build a wall.

    Just thought of another thing the Romans did have artillery, nothing like what we have today of course but still in an ancient world was still pretty bad ass: the Trebuchet.

    Could you imagine a modern military unit going up against the triumvirate? Augustus/ Octavian, Mark Antony, and Marcus Lepidus. Duuuuuuuude that would be something to see.

    Bottom line my faith in the US Military is unquestionable as I think a Modern MEU could sack Rome if parked right at the gates, but I don't know if they could hold it unless they enslaved (and that's a questionable tactic as the US is held to higher standard than the rest of the world) the Roman engineers to keep making bullets. It's really interesting though.
     
  15. VictoryLeo19

    VictoryLeo19 Well-Known Member

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    Then again, any German tribe, whether being designated as an Ostrigoth or a Visigoth became Roman in almost every aspect of their lives. I suppose the Roman "lifestyle" won in the end, which I guess was the point all along some could say.
     
  16. Aernaroth

    Aernaroth <b><font color=blue>I voted for Super_Megatron and Veteran

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    As much as I can see modern infantry absolutely BUTCHERING romans in an even engagement, I think that a unit of 2500 men with limited logistical support would not fare as brilliantly as some in this thread seem to suggest. I can't see them destabilizing the empire or even sacking Rome itself, especially if they were on the offensive.

    If the marines were asked to hold a fortified location, however, holy hell would that be a bloodbath. The best analogy I could think of for this situation would be the Anglo-Zulu war, but even this is highly innacurate since one could argue both sides in this situation are more technologically and militarily advanced than their Anglo-Zulu counterparts.

    Anglo-Zulu War - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Still, I think it's useful to show that through knowledge of the landscape (and appropriate use to maximize strategic maneuverability) and superior numbers (and a healthy dose of arrogance on the British side), a pre-gunpowder civilization could defeat a (basically) industrialized one in a number of engagements. The war itself was a pretty conclusive victory for the British, but they also had reinforcement and logistical support the marines in this scenario wouldn't, and the Romans would be able to mobilize literally tens of thousands of soldiers as opposed to the relatively small numbers of the Zulu army.
     
  17. mrgalvaprime

    mrgalvaprime #BanTJ

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    how would the american civil war gone if Abraham lincoln was a cyborg sent from the future
     
  18. Aernaroth

    Aernaroth <b><font color=blue>I voted for Super_Megatron and Veteran

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    Sic Semper Clibanus!
     
  19. jorod74

    jorod74 Psycholagnist (Ret.)

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    if you don't believe in serendipity, then you have never really studied history.
    the amount of it in WWII alone makes me think that we are lucky to be where we are today.
    several general examples can be attributed to Hitler's decisions to push for certain weapons to be developed and totally ignoring others that would have changed the war entirely.

    alternate history, even if it's merely conjecture can reveal just how easily things could be different- or god forbid, worse.
     
  20. Aernaroth

    Aernaroth <b><font color=blue>I voted for Super_Megatron and Veteran

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    The moment he decided to break peace with Stalin it was pretty much the beginning of the end for Germany in WW2, and both parties knew the peace treaty wasn't going to last.

    The amount of casualties in the eastern front, even compared to the western front, were absolutely staggering. Like 5 million German military casualties on the eastern front vs. 1 million on the western front staggering. Don't even ask about Soviet casualties.


    I wonder how much more bloody the Pacific Theatre would have been if the Allies hadn't cracked Japanese codes before The Battle of Midway.
     

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