Discussion in 'Transformers Movie Discussion' started by Danielhero1998, Jul 2, 2017.
That's how Optimus has been mostly portrayed through various iterations of Transformers.
I must of missed the era after WW2 when the Jews became crazed and threatened to kill everyone. That must of been in the shattered glass reality.
OMFG you are missing the damn point.
Optimus IS HAS ALWAYS BEEN AND STILL IS IN A WAR. People die and kill in wars. Holocaust survivors were PRISONERS and SLAVES.
Both are different situations that resulted in deep trauma, though their actions depended on the situation.
Optimus has more anger and bitterness because of this never ending war. This will, therefore, be reflected in battle.
Holocaust survivors were prisoners, not soldiers. Their anguish and sadness will be expressed in other methods (i.e; telling their story, honoring those who were lost in the Holocaust, writing memoirs all while living with anger, bitterness, sadness, frustration, feeling the inability to escape, etc.)
TL;DR Two different scenarios will have different results, but the one thing they have in common is that you will end up severely scarred for life by the end of them, and your actions will reflect this.
Seriously, this is stupid, I shouldn't even have to go this far to explain myself.
Do you realise how mercilessly effective was Mosad tracking and executing Nazis after the war? Or how effectively ruthless was the Israel state in its beginnings when they were just starting securing the promised land?
Yes, you did miss a thing or two.
Assuming you guys are talking about the portrayal of Optimus Prime, I have a different view, if you don't mind. Keeping in mind that the bots are warisome tribes, Prime (and perhaps the other Autobots) being "barbaric" is their nature due to being in conflict for so long. Prime executing Demolisher on the spot, their appendages naturally transforming into weapons, and the Knights attempted execution of Prime are just some assumed features of a race of being in a state of war forever. Overall, even though it is against my G1 sensibilities, it makes sense in a real world.
I think this topic got derailed a bit. The question was whether the transformers franchise would survive. Concerning Transformers generally (cartoons, comics and toys) for sure. If you ask about the live action movie franchise, I don't know. But if they keep on producing the same style, I don't really care to be honest.
I stopped collecting movie toys for a while and resume collecting Titans return toys.
Whether it makes sense or not, it makes it harder to root for people as blood thirsty and kill crazy as the Bayformer Autobots are. It would help if the movies ever bothered to delve into how the Autobot/Decepticon war has actually effected the Cybertronians. There's no instances of them lamenting their losses, outside of the first movie that depicts them as much nicer and being able to immediately move on. The only people who've ever been sad about what's happened to Cybertron are people like Megatron and Sentinel, who're portrayed as monstrous villains who can't let go of the past. All the Autobots in the first trilogy seemed to have just moved on from Cybertron and were perfectly happy on Earth, making new friends to make up for their old dead ones they never mention. At all. They kinda delve into this in the new trilogy, but that's more about the much new conflict between humans and Transformers. They still don't bring up the eons of endless conflict on Cybertron. Really, the movies just seem to do this to be cool. There's no exploration of what fuels the Autobots. They're just war machines who kill because it's awesome to watch robots tear each other apart.
I think it's the matter of Transformers' PR. If they showed a different perspective on the killing or glossed over death, the audience would have a different perception of things. It's the mechanic of out of sight, out of mind. After all nobody calls Captain America a murderer despite having him throw granades into tanks with people still in them (CA:TFA) or delivering a coup de grace to a fallen opponent (Avengers). If you don't see the body, there's no problem. Dehumanization of the opponents also helps.
I think that the only version of Optimus Prime who didn't kill someone is TFA. In every other case it had to happen, because it's war, the difference is you simply weren't shown it, because kid show.
Since Transformers are kind of kid oriented, they should have taken a more kid-friendly approach to killing, something along the lines of MCU. After all nobody accused Avengers of murdering the Chitauri soldiers. And it's easier to cheer for a team you don't see killing their enemies explicitly
That's not the problem at all. It's not about killing, it's about overkill (sorry for the pun). It's actions like Optimus tearing off the Fallens face, crushing his spark in his hand, ripping out Shockwaves eye, executing Demolisher and Sentinel. It's dialogue like "we will kill them all". It makes it seem like Optimus is overly eager to kill Decepticon in as brutal ways as possible. We've never seen this in Captain America or any past version of Optimus.
And that means everyone is forced to write him the same?
Edit: I'm not saying that I like the movies, but you want the same again and again, and later you complain that everything's the same.
That's a fitting pun!
And I agree. It is the case of overkill (which I'm not a fan of, personally). Heroes can kill, but there's no need to make the spectale out of it! However, I'm under impression that some people are barking up the wrong tree or can get a little ignorant at times, while pinpointing that problem.
Every single jew? mind you my argument is that not everyone turns that way... some would and some wouldnt.
Again, reference point is Captain Miller from Saving Private Ryan.
Sure Optimus can still kill in the heat of battle. That's what war is about: killing the enemy so he doesn't kill you.
But as stated, th
Sure he can still kill in
Soundwaverulls already elaborated my issue with Bay's Optimus (after the 2007 movie). It's not the killing per se. As he put it, it's the "overkill" and some of the phrases he uses that indicates his psychopathic eagerness to kill. You can attribute that to experiences with war it that he's had enough. The underlying issue is this Optimus is the flip side of the ideal heroic Optimus who is a safe warrior. Not haphazard or blase about killing, but stoic and wise *despite* what he has gone through as leader of the Autobots.
And to address, I would've no problem with the consistency with Optimus's characters. As already mentioned, being the wise stoic heroic leader that he was in 2007 who instructed not to harm humans or that they couldn't get Bumblebee without harming the humans so they let Sector 7 leave even though they were capable of doing it and more, is a complete role reversal for him by the time part 2 and other sequels came in.
Again, no complaints with bad guys being killed. It's the method he has now adopted to deliver those kills, even when the opponent has been brought down and not able to defend himself anymore.
And my gripe about the movies are another matter separate from Optimus's inconsistent, thoughtless characterization (after movie 1). With the movies, thematically they're the same (search for mcguffin, majors human history related to transformers, explosions, meaningless banter and dialogue, big major battle at end, etc.). And again that's why I made the comment that watching any one of bay's feels like you've already seen them before.
You cant win this argument that everyone turns out the same....... its impossible for you to prove. But by all means if you want to keep frustrating yourself trying...... then that bit of stupid is on you.
He got killed once and almost twice by the Deceps for protecting humans and then he gets betrayed by them, how is he not gonna have anger issues?
Its like preaching to a wall.
The point is flying so far over your head, it's insulting.
You're attributing to Optimus prime what an ordinary human being might do. Optimus is not ordinary. That's why he was specifically chosen by the Matrix to become a Prime and lead the Autobots.
In the movieverse, the Matrix is the key to a WMD, and Optimus got it looong after becoming an Autobot leader.
First off.. I've made it clear I understand what you are saying and that I only disagree with you saying everyone would succumb mentally to all of that.
But you're not even trying to think about where I'm coming from. Not willing to give an inch or understanding........ just like a hot head.
So please ignore me... I already have one child ....... I dont need to deal with more.
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