Can someone help me identify this Knock Off Optimus Prime?

Discussion in 'Transformers Toy Discussion' started by SaberPrime, Dec 11, 2011.

  1. RedAlert Rescue

    RedAlert Rescue Banned

    Joined:
    May 12, 2003
    Posts:
    13,222
    News Credits:
    5
    Trophy Points:
    236
    Likes:
    +20
    The easiest way to look at the non-Generations / Non-Universe red carded toys is that they are just another store exclusive like the 'Most Wanted' theme is for giftsets. but they are not exclusive to Target or Walmart or another massive single retailer but to a larger collection of smaller store chains known collectively as "Market Six". So for that reason they don't have a sticker on them for say 'General Dollar' or 'Big lots' or 'Zelllers' as they could be sold at any of a dozen different places up and down American and in some cases in Canada too. and products of that type even sometimes also make it out as International Market exclusives too like the afore mentioned Minicon 8 pack.

    That red packet can therefore be seen both as a transitional style of packaging between Revenge of the Fallen and the Transformers 2010 (yellow boxes) and it can also be seen as a packaging type specifically designed to sell over a long period and is therefore lacking any campaign or range specific info on it... if they had Revenge of the Fallen written on them they'd all be long gone probably - but because they have nothing on them bar Transformers they can be sold through for a much longer period.

    And things like the individual packed Minicons have indeed been on shelves for a long time.

    When they did this sort of thing previously they did it with the 'Robots in Disguise' & 'Universe' brand names. Only this time they used no name at all.

    Robots in Disguise and indeed Universe both seem to be names that are useful for Hasbro to refer back to when they wish to use them as repaint book ends for releases.

    But anyway the point is they are genuine toys.

    As for the point about Hasbro not putting things on their Websites I can confirm there are a fair few Action man toys that never made it onto any of the international sites for that brand but still got released anyway. It makes making a definitive list for Action man toys therefore bordering on the impossible. and likewise with Transformers something just don't get much of a mention on the Hasbro site too like Amazon's Unicron or a great many other store exclusive releases.
     
  2. FakeEyes22

    FakeEyes22 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 19, 2011
    Posts:
    889
    News Credits:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    147
    Likes:
    +7
    That's a good explanation, in my opinion.

    I consider it something like Hasbro throwing a bone towards stores that only sell very cheap items. Same stores also carry stuff like individually carded Star Wars Galactic Heroes or Littlest Pet Shop that are typically only seen in multipacks. Hasbro gets to sell product directly to a huge market that otherwise can't afford to carry their stuff while these smaller stores enjoy carrying a real "current" product that isn't an old leftover clearance item.

    And that's the key with the red packaging. It doesn't matter if it means Generations, 2010 or anything besides "now." It just has to reflect the current look of the brand since it's being sold to the stores and consumers as a new item, regardless of the molds used.

    And this is just a guess, but I don't think Hasbro is too concerned with marketing stuff like this on their sites. "Dollar Store Exclusive!" isn't the most glamorous association to toss out there.
     
  3. SaberPrime

    SaberPrime Banned

    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2010
    Posts:
    11,053
    Trophy Points:
    312
    Location:
    The State of insanity.
    Likes:
    +4,151
    Did you even read the question? I never even asked about the figures in the first place. The topic was about the Optimus Prime knock off which was answered a while ago. Sense the topic has no real use anymore it went into a discussion about some other figures that were in the same video.

    Look at it from my point of view. They're in a store known for selling knock offs. There is no official word from Hasbro showing they've even released these toys. You're only evidence is that "they're in the store" which by that logic all knock offs are official toys. You're also showing me a wiki page that says it's official while claiming that wiki doesn't show Knock-Offs even though they have a page devoted to them. Plus wiki can be edited by ANYONE, it's not an official source and hence, not 100% accurate all the time.

    There's been times where I've given you evidence from an official source to support my claims and you still didn't believe me so why expect me to believe you when you're only evidence can't be trusted?
     
  4. Ultrawave

    Ultrawave Hey look, I have a title

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2008
    Posts:
    2,183
    News Credits:
    4
    Trophy Points:
    237
    Likes:
    +175
    That's not what he's saying at all. You're twisting his words around; he never once said knock offs were official toys, nor did he imply it.

    The Wiki doesn't list knock-offs individually, they have a page devoted to the fact that THEY EXIST. Not pages for every single knock off. So your "WIKI SHOWS KNOCK OFFS HAHA IM RIGHT" argument is invalid.

    He's not the only one to show you evidence these are official toys, so don't single him out about not being able to trust his, because then you're implying you trust everyone else who has told you these are official toys. And obviously, you don't because you still deny it.

    Here's a suggestion: Since you stalk Hasbro's website, how about you just write to them and ask if they actually re-released them?

    Or you can pull your head out of your ass, wake up and smell the coffee and come back to reality with the rest of us. These are official and hasbro manufactured toys. You don't like it, that's too damn bad.
     
  5. mx-01 archon

    mx-01 archon Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2003
    Posts:
    35,282
    News Credits:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    412
    Likes:
    +44,476
  6. rodimus62609

    rodimus62609 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2008
    Posts:
    266
    News Credits:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    122
    Likes:
    +18
    I can't believe this man lol. Like others have stated, it's an official product and NOT part of generations. These are at all discount stores I've been to. Freds, Tj maxxx,hell dollar general has that 2 pack with the shitty Prime and Tank Megatron in the same packaging. I could be wrong, but couldn't people get sued if they used the Transformers brand name and character names copyrghted by Hasbro?? These are most definitely legit.
     
  7. engledogg

    engledogg Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2002
    Posts:
    2,259
    News Credits:
    22
    Trophy Points:
    312
    Location:
    SW Pennsylvania
    Likes:
    +1,306
    Saber, I'm not sure why you quoted me there and then wrote what I'm assuming to be your response to mx-01 archon after my quote, since I never cited the TFwiki.

    And even if I did...do you know how much attention to detail (sometimes agonizingly so) is paid by the people that oversee that site to make sure they're as accurate as possible? Any schlub can edit the Wiki, but if a user were to put up something that's not accurate, it's removed, torn apart, and then put back to the way it was before the edit (sometimes almost immediately). Also, just to make sure we're talking about the correct Wiki, I'm referencing TFWiki.net, not the other one. So, apparently these KO-artists have infiltrated the Wiki.

    Anyway, what I did link you to, which, judging by your response (or lack thereof), I'm convinced you didn't even look at, was a BigBadToyStore (a store which doesn't sell knockoffs and buys directly from Hasbro) link to the set of three. Notice anything interesting there?:

    By Hasbro

    Oh yeah, the manufacturer...says Hasbro, doesn't it? Well, I guess BBTS is somehow wrong as well. Come to think of it, why don't you ask Joel at BBTS how they acquired the set of three in question. I'd love to hear his response.

    Oh, and before you say, "Well, it says Universe there. These are Generations, so they're wrong", notice the silver Backstop. This red-card 2010 Backstop is the only time that he has been silver and black. Never before, never since. The other "repackaged" Backstops (the original Universe package version (from 2007) and the "Universe 2008" package version (from 2009)) were the same figure/contents as the Cybertron version. Actually, and I'm just curious, do you acknowledge that these repackaged versions aren't knockoffs?

    I also sent you three links from Shmax.com, a site that initially only included official Transformers products (it has since expanded to keeping tabs on 3rd party products, but does NOT cover knockoffs).

    Those three links provided you pictures of each of the toys in package...all with at least two HASBRO logos on each.

    Shmax.com: Product Information - Backstop
    Shmax.com: Product Information - Undermine
    Shmax.com: Product Information - Wreckloose

    Also, if you click the links, you might be thinking "Hey, they're listed under Generations, so these guys are inaccurate and can't be trusted." Yes, the toys are listed under Generations, but they are listed that way for a reason. shmax.com uses eBay to appraise your collection, and at the time the listings were created, more hits were generated with a "Generations Backstop" eBay search than with a "Transformers 2010 Red Package Backstop" eBay search. But, this is beside the point.

    So, I guess shmax.com is wrong, just like TFWiki.net and BBTS...all of them duped by these tricksters.

    Oh yeah, might as well add TFW2005 itself to the list:

    http://www.tfw2005.com/transformers...-minicon--scout-repaints-first-images-171445/

    Official Hasbro stock photography...identical to the photos used by BBTS. All fake...


    Also, while we're on this, let me list the UPC codes for these guys for you:

    Undermine - 653569506171
    Wreckloose - 653569506164
    Backstop - 653569506188.

    The first six numbers (653569) are the first digits of practically any current or recent U.S. Transformer UPC. So, somehow, these KO-artists were able to register those UPCs, that are specifically reserved for not only Hasbro product, but Hasbro Transformers product, for their knockoffs.

    And, again, just because a store sells knockoffs, doesn't mean that other toys sold in the store aren't legit. Like I mentioned previously, back in the day, Big Lots! also sold G1 toys and has carried legit Hasbro TF products ever since, sometimes even daring to sell such products at the same time they were selling knockoffs.

    Speaking of stores selling knockoffs, you know who else used to sell knockoffs? Walmart. Yep, good ol' Walmart. At one point in time, a grey and silver knockoff of the Macross Valkyrie/G1 Jetfire jet and an oversized Armada Megatron knockoff by Happy Well were available. Much more recently, some Dinobot/Hardhead knockoffs were packaged with some kids' shirts. So, by your Big Lots! reasoning, all the Hasbro Transformers sold there over the past decade or so may not be real. So everyone's collections are suspect, all because of those accursed knockoffs. I'm sorry, but do you realize how ridiculous this sounds?

    The rest of the second half of your post ("There's been times where I've given you evidence from an official source to support my claims and you still didn't believe me so why expect me to believe you when you're only evidence can't be trusted?") surely can't be directed at me as this is the first time I've ever participated in a conversation with you. And, to tell the truth, it's slowly getting to the point that, in retrospect, I'm beginning to wish I hadn't. There's only so much evidence that I (and others) can present to you, and if you wish to ignore it and stick to your guns, then by all means, ignore away.

    I apologize for the page-long post, folks.

    MIKE
    engledogg
     
  8. Sioce

    Sioce Radicon in training

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2009
    Posts:
    3,063
    News Credits:
    3
    Trophy Points:
    202
    Likes:
    +12
    Ebay:
    Guys.... seriously

    :trolls: 

    No one is THAT dense.

    Good job little troll.
     
  9. engledogg

    engledogg Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2002
    Posts:
    2,259
    News Credits:
    22
    Trophy Points:
    312
    Location:
    SW Pennsylvania
    Likes:
    +1,306
    I know, I know...and I should know better.

    But, for some reason, I got into my rant and couldn't stop typing. :) 

    MIKE
    engledogg
     
  10. SaberPrime

    SaberPrime Banned

    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2010
    Posts:
    11,053
    Trophy Points:
    312
    Location:
    The State of insanity.
    Likes:
    +4,151
    I never said or even thought that he was claiming that official toys were knock-offs.

    What I was replying to was that he said the wiki does not have knock-offs on it. That's the only reason why I posted the link to the knock-off page because he claimed there were no knock-offs there. He didn't say anything about individual listings, he just said there were no knock-offs on the wiki. My argument isn't invalid because I pointed to a page he claimed didn't exist.

    The evidence everyone else provided was "I seen them in the store therefore they're official" which is even less evidence than a wiki page.

    Do you realize how many times people, I think including yourself, have given me backlash for quoting the wiki as evidence in an argument even when I have OTHER proof to back it up. Someone claimed for days that I never provided evidence about the 7 Primes in Revenge of the Fallen when I gave him the wiki page AND the exact movie it's from. But when anyone else wants to quote the wiki it's always 100% accurate. Some how it's only wrong when I do it is that how it works?

    I never even seen this link before but did you notice anything different about the toys in your link and the toys in the video?

    It says "set of 3" at the top, they're sold together not individually. The Backstop mold is listed as Rhinox (Backstop redeco). And I'm color blind but even I can see that the Reckloose mold you linked to has a lighter color scheme than the one in the video.

    It's also a little suspicious that every web site they're listed on says they're only available at Big Lots but several people have claimed to see them at TJ Maxx and other stores, all of which BTW sell knock offs. It also says they've only been out in 2011. I first seen them at a Ross some time in November of 2010. I remember it because I was with my girlfriend at the time and she broke up with me over a year ago. (We're friends now so it's all good)

    So just explain to me how toys exclusive to Big Lots ended up in a Ross a year before they were even released? Or in any store other than Big Lots? Or for that matter if why they don't say "Big Lots exclusive" on them or why Hasbro would even make exclusives for a store that sells knock-offs of their toys.

    BTW I've been to about 10 different Wal-Marts in different cities and never seen any knock-offs there. However with Big Lots the only thing really exclusive there is that they exclusively sell cheap knock-offs. Big Lots has never had official toys of anything. I've even found a few knock-off Power Rangers there in very official looking packaging but I could tell they were knock offs because they'd have the rangers in the wrong color schemes, some times even with colors that didn't exist in that series or not at all like Green and Purple Space Rangers. (Should be Black and Pink) I've also seen the original Red Power Ranger in every color EXCEPT Red. (Meaning the one with the t-rex design on his helmet who should be Red but wasn't.) My basic point being that while Wal-Mart may have sold Knock-offs at some chain where you live they don't do it everywhere or all the freaking time which is why they can be trusted while Big Lots can't. Big Lots is the exact opposite of Wal Mart, they tent to ONLY sell Knock-Offs to the point that even if they did have official toys I wouldn't trust them. Seriously if I seen a toy I knew was official at Big Lots I'd be checking every minor detail on that thing comparing it to the same toy at Wal-Mart and probably still wouldn't buy it just because it's at Big Lots. That should give you an idea of the trust level between the two stores.
     
  11. engledogg

    engledogg Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2002
    Posts:
    2,259
    News Credits:
    22
    Trophy Points:
    312
    Location:
    SW Pennsylvania
    Likes:
    +1,306
    Never spoke to you before in my life, buddy...search for my name on here and I'd wager that you have never seen me posting in any other thread you've participated in.

    Oh yeah?

    Post #30

    Give me a freakin' break, dude...do you see this?

    Shared Exclusive Dinobot Minicon Set of 4 - Transformers 2010 - 2011 Transformers Exclusives

    Says set of 4...but guess what? Sold individually at places other than BBTS. Just like the other three figures.

    Not even gonna bother, I'm done with you.

    MIKE
    engledogg
     
  12. Sioce

    Sioce Radicon in training

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2009
    Posts:
    3,063
    News Credits:
    3
    Trophy Points:
    202
    Likes:
    +12
    Ebay:
  13. Fishdirt

    Fishdirt Tin Toy Transformer

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2010
    Posts:
    3,650
    News Credits:
    3
    Trophy Points:
    207
    Likes:
    +26
    Ebay:
    Didn't Wal Mart used to sell knock offs a few years back? I bet what they sell now are knock offs as well.

    K-Mart sells KOs now as well...


    Cripes! I've been buying nothing but knock offs! HELP! Where can I buy official product?????
     
  14. Sioce

    Sioce Radicon in training

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2009
    Posts:
    3,063
    News Credits:
    3
    Trophy Points:
    202
    Likes:
    +12
    Ebay:
    The bolded part is all I will address from the stupidity you keep spewing.

    BigLots ended up selling quite a few Universe toys back in '09. They sold the main body components of the energon combiners.

    By all means try to call them "very good knock-offs" little troll.

    Big Lots sells some official stuff, they just sell knock-offs as well.

    Right now my local Big Lots has a ton of Star Trek toys, as well as some of the very Transformers this idiotic thread is now about, several dozen disney fairy dolls, some hot wheels, not to mention a ton of playskool toys, and probably a couple hundred video games.

    Want to call all of them "very good knock offs"? :lol 

    Move along little troll. You have been proven wrong. Accept it and get passed it. Now you are just looking like a stubborn fool.

    Again:
    Family Guy kevin bacon was'nt in footloose - YouTube
     
  15. SaberPrime

    SaberPrime Banned

    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2010
    Posts:
    11,053
    Trophy Points:
    312
    Location:
    The State of insanity.
    Likes:
    +4,151
    You do realize that just because you post something doesn't mean I see it right? Look at my next post right after that one. I didn't even quote you or mention your link in any way because I never saw it. It's at the bottom of the page and I just didn't notice it.
     
  16. mx-01 archon

    mx-01 archon Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2003
    Posts:
    35,282
    News Credits:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    412
    Likes:
    +44,476
    Wow, is this thread still going?




    Alright SaberPrime. You've got us. The jig's up.

    We're all in (including BBTS) on some sick joke to fool you into thinking that a trio of knock-offs are really official toys, all for the express purpose of...





    What, exactly?

    What goddamn reason does any of us have to lie about this? It's not like anybody really gives a damn about those toys to make any sort of fuss about it.

    Take off the goddamn tinfoil hat and give it a rest. You're being fucking absurd.

    Give it a rest before Batman comes to your goddamned house and chews your ass off for being dense and ******ed.
     
  17. RedAlert Rescue

    RedAlert Rescue Banned

    Joined:
    May 12, 2003
    Posts:
    13,222
    News Credits:
    5
    Trophy Points:
    236
    Likes:
    +20
    I think the item number product codes have some internal meaning so it might be possible to tie the item numbers (or barcode numbers) to another product line to see if generic red box releases come together with one of those other numbering conventions and that will perhaps tell you where Hasbro intended to place them with generations Universe or with the Movieverse. or if not that at least if they are counted as main line or store exclusive numbering codes.

    I'm sure someone has a batter grasp of how the numbering works that I do though all I can remember is store exclusives start with a different number to general release toys - I'm not sure if this relates to market 6 toys or not in any useful way though.

    Oh and another item perhaps not listed on the Hasbro Website might be the single carded Robot heroes sold with kids jigsaw puzzles packed on them. Or any store exclusive that had a free packing taped to it or a new special box like when they gave you a free deluxe or scout or minicons on something. sometimes it's just taped on but sometimes it's a completely new & bigger box
     
  18. LegendAntihero

    LegendAntihero Banned

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2011
    Posts:
    14,163
    Trophy Points:
    217
    Likes:
    +40
    The Optimus Prime artwork on those knock off toys looks fantastic. We should be getting more toys that look like him instead of the movie junk we keep getting from Hasbro nowadays.
     
  19. butz

    butz slippery when wet

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2003
    Posts:
    8,122
    Trophy Points:
    337
    Likes:
    +2,939
    While waiting for take-out last night we stopped in Big Lots, and thinking of this thread I checked to see if they had these guys. Sure enough, they were there and the ones at this Big Lots have Hasbro clearly on the front, as well as back of the card along with copyright info. and something about under license by Tomy. Curiously, it specifically says Hasbro Canada; might be why they're not on the Hasbro's site.
     
  20. Omega_Sentinel

    Omega_Sentinel Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2008
    Posts:
    803
    Trophy Points:
    237
    Likes:
    +203
    LOL @ this thread.

    Just read through the whole thing like an episode of montel williams.

    I'm still trying to figure out why anyone is still responding to Saber Prime at this point other than the fact they are pissed.